p.1 #1 · Is the Panasonic S1 or S1R under appreciated?
I don't really see a lot of posts around here about either camera. I love my S1R, but the have the Leica SL2 and having a hard time talking myself into getting rid of the Panasonic gear so I can buy more SL lenses. The camera ergos are really nice and I love the colors too. I actually have 2 S1R's and will sell one for sure but may keep everything else. I have all the lenses except for the 50mm. Just curious how many other FM Panasonic S users are out there and their experience good, bad and indifferent.
p.1 #2 · Is the Panasonic S1 or S1R under appreciated?
Yes, it is under appreciated. Especially consider L mount alliance now have so many more options. One of my favorite cameras to date but it seems require certain taste to appropriate it. With SL2, it is hard to justify both though.
p.1 #4 · Is the Panasonic S1 or S1R under appreciated?
I’ve been using a couple of SL APO f2 crons on an S1R for a few months now and have to say the LUMIX is vastly under-appreciated. Probably because YouTube personalities value a narrow subset of PDAF qualities and feel like a camera lacking idiot proof focusing algorithms sucks.
But it’s AF trade offs don’t matter to me (AF is actually pretty quick in good light and very reliable accurate). What matters is the sensor delivers excellent IQ that makes for fantastic enlargements. The camera offers a very professional menu and button customization capacity, and great build quality. Mates well with glass that cuts killer microcontrast.
This isn’t for the masses, it is for serious landscape shooters, street, product who do not need birds in flight or tiny little featherweight cameras. The 187mp mode produces files akin to medium format regarding color fidelity and tonal transitions. That mode compensates for motion making it much more useful than the pixel shifts of other makers. It is a very well thought out camera.
p.1 #5 · Is the Panasonic S1 or S1R under appreciated?
The S1R is an amazing camera and lets outstanding lenses shine, it has beautiful files as well. Easy to adapt non-L-mount lenses too. The high res mode on still landscapes is splendid.
p.1 #6 · Is the Panasonic S1 or S1R under appreciated?
I briefly had a S1 and have tried out a friends original Sl. I don't want to be the voice of dissent but while I actually loved the feel of the S1 and thought the viewfinder superb, the lack of phase detect autofocus was a real issue for me. I tested them both against my Sony A7RIV and found some photos to be actually more precisely focused (static objects) but my images of people were slightly out of focus way too often. That was true even in a studio setting. Part of that (or maybe even most of it was me as I am used to phase detect on the Sony). However it is a joy to use continuous focus and eye detect in in a studio whereby you can concentrate on the composition and pretty much take for granted the eyes will be in focus on the Sony.
With that said if I was picking a camera on its feel, controls (and looks) I would grab the Panasonic and even more so the Leica anytime. If they would incorporate phase detect into their cameras I believe that the number of users would grow quickly.
Even will all I have just said I am still contemplating buying an SL or SL2 with the full awareness that it would not be entirely suitable for what I shoot most (people) and that it would not replace my Sony.
p.1 #8 · Is the Panasonic S1 or S1R under appreciated?
I still use my S1R's alongside my SL2.
The S1R's ergonomics are spectacular. The camera has the tilting screen missing from the Leica as well as easy access to TTL and HSS flash with a Godox transmitter.
It has a slightly thicker sensor glass, so doesn't play as nice with M lenses. Other than that there's not much to dislike. It's far more customisable than the SL2. It has a slightly better grip. And it's built like a tank. I rolled one down 30-40 stairs at a Buddhist temple in Myanmar with no damage.
An S1R or S1 is an easy choice for the SL2 shooter looking for a second body or backup, unless you only shoot M lenses.
p.1 #10 · Is the Panasonic S1 or S1R under appreciated?
Desmolicious wrote:
Bounced down 40 stairs and no damage?
Pretty much. Pressed in the hotshoe, which I fixed with a fork. Scratched the Leica 24-90 and hood strapped to it, in a very minor way. A few minor scratches, mainly on the base plate that could have happened with any other camera. No dings or dents or loss of paint. I have two bodies and need to look really carefully to identify the dropped one. No repairs to either camera and lens. Both still in use today, a couple of years later. I do know it's more luck than anything. I was expecting carnage.
We were half way down 500 concrete stairs, after visiting the temple, when the strap gave way. Totally my fault as I hadn't connected it properly. The whole thing was in slow motion, like a slinky, one step at a time, until my girlfriend, who was further down than me, stuck her foot out and stopped it.
p.1 #11 · Is the Panasonic S1 or S1R under appreciated?
After selling my SL and some glass, I picked up the S1R to use with my Panny 70-200 and Sigma 105 Macro to go along with my Q2. I'm actually pretty impressed with the files it produces and the handling is superb. It's a keeper for me.
p.1 #12 · Is the Panasonic S1 or S1R under appreciated?
AndereObjektiv wrote:
The S1R is an amazing camera and lets outstanding lenses shine, it has beautiful files as well. Easy to adapt non-L-mount lenses too. The high res mode on still landscapes is splendid.
Have you adapted Mamiya m645 glass to the S1R? I have the 120mm Macro A and 150mm 2.8 A and have been wondering if I should buy a Fotodiox $200 T/S adapter. Also, a more generic question is does the high resolution mode work when adapting a fully manual non-electronic lens?
p.1 #13 · Is the Panasonic S1 or S1R under appreciated?
jmmaher wrote:
I briefly had a S1 and have tried out a friends original Sl. I don't want to be the voice of dissent but while I actually loved the feel of the S1 and thought the viewfinder superb, the lack of phase detect autofocus was a real issue for me. I tested them both against my Sony A7RIV and found some photos to be actually more precisely focused (static objects) but my images of people were slightly out of focus way too often. That was true even in a studio setting. Part of that (or maybe even most of it was me as I am used to phase detect on the Sony). However it is a joy to use continuous focus and eye detect in in a studio whereby you can concentrate on the composition and pretty much take for granted the eyes will be in focus on the Sony.
With that said if I was picking a camera on its feel, controls (and looks) I would grab the Panasonic and even more so the Leica anytime. If they would incorporate phase detect into their cameras I believe that the number of users would grow quickly.
Even will all I have just said I am still contemplating buying an SL or SL2 with the full awareness that it would not be entirely suitable for what I shoot most (people) and that it would not replace my Sony....Show more →
I use two systems. Always have used one medium format for mostly landscape, and one full-frame for agility and versatility. The S1R with Leica SL glass recently replaced my medium format kit. I do not view it as a full replacement for my full-frame PDAF system (Nikon Z). The combination of Leica SL glass microcontrast and fall-off on that great S1R sensor with its high res mode enabled it as a medium format substitution, for my uses.
So, I have mixed emotions about Panasonic or Leica moving to PDAF. That niche is already fully covered by others and my impression is it slightly degrades IQ and can introduce banding (although I can rarely induce this even when I try). In fact I think PDAF gets in the way of the GFX 100(s) a bit, and prefer the look from their 50mp CDAF sensors. If Panasonic or Leica can provide PDAF without compromising the resulting IQ and render, then I'd certainly embrace it though. But the S1R with the best glass provides the least compromised full-frame render I've seen. So I hope they don't mess it up and keep offering the simpler sensor arrays.
Even if Panasonic does great with PDAF, I won't sell off all my Nikon because they make certain lenses L-Alliance isn't road-mapping that I adore. Where the two systems have similar offerings Leica SL APO wins, and I think Nikon Z offerings otherwise win but not always. Having two systems enables a certain amount of cherry-picking, but is definitely like juggling two partners that each speak different languages - or so I imagine.
p.1 #14 · Is the Panasonic S1 or S1R under appreciated?
Yes, it always was and still is under-appreciated. It simply came too late to the market when other FF cameras with high MP/DR sensors were already out there for years where people had switched over to. Besides this, I am not sure where this L-mount thing is going. There is a lot of online hype about it and people showcasing especially Leica L-mount cameras, but otherwise you don't hear or see much of it in the "wild". Leica pushes all in to advertise for L-mount cameras because they committed to it. But so far it seems to fall short of sales expectations. Panasonic is in the same boat - I don't think many Panasonic S1/S1R users are going to purchase $$$$ Leica L-lenses. Alternatively there are only the in-house or Sigma L-mount options. More lens options with Sony, Canon, or Nikon MLCs.
p.1 #15 · Is the Panasonic S1 or S1R under appreciated?
retrofocus wrote:
Yes, it always was and still is under-appreciated. It simply came too late to the market when other FF cameras with high MP/DR sensors were already out there for years where people had switched over to. Besides this, I am not sure where this L-mount thing is going. There is a lot of online hype about it and people showcasing especially Leica L-mount cameras, but otherwise you don't hear or see much of it in the "wild". Leica pushes all in to advertise for L-mount cameras because they committed to it. But so far it seems to fall short of sales expectations. Panasonic is in the same boat - I don't think many Panasonic S1/S1R users are going to purchase $$$$ Leica L-lenses. Alternatively there are only the in-house or Sigma L-mount options. More lens options with Sony, Canon, or Nikon MLCs. ...Show more →
From Leica and Sigma's point of view I think it's going well. Leica have adopted the same low volume approach as they do with M. New products come with an initial waiting list. And for Leica, Panny and Sigma fill lens holes they don't want to get into as well as give a second tier option they don't have to be responsible for. Sigma don't care. L mount is like their experimental division for cameras and they dual mount with Sony E so they can sell as many as they can make. The Sigma L mount lenses I have are very good indeed.
Panasonic is more interesting. Most of the tech in the SL2 is from Panasonic, so they may get something form Leica there. But they don't seem to have found their place, or niche, within the L mount alliance. Apart from maybe, the S1H. I am very surprised they haven't done anything with cine lenses, for example. Or a really really video focused unit. Where's the BG-H1 with a S1 sensor?
p.1 #16 · Is the Panasonic S1 or S1R under appreciated?
woodstork wrote:
I use two systems. Always have used one medium format for mostly landscape, and one full-frame for agility and versatility. The S1R with Leica SL glass recently replaced my medium format kit. I do not view it as a full replacement for my full-frame PDAF system (Nikon Z). The combination of Leica SL glass microcontrast and fall-off on that great S1R sensor with its high res mode enabled it as a medium format substitution, for my uses.
So, I have mixed emotions about Panasonic or Leica moving to PDAF. That niche is already fully covered by others and my impression is it slightly degrades IQ and can introduce banding (although I can rarely induce this even when I try). In fact I think PDAF gets in the way of the GFX 100(s) a bit, and prefer the look from their 50mp CDAF sensors. If Panasonic or Leica can provide PDAF without compromising the resulting IQ and render, then I'd certainly embrace it though. But the S1R with the best glass provides the least compromised full-frame render I've seen. So I hope they don't mess it up and keep offering the simpler sensor arrays.
Even if Panasonic does great with PDAF, I won't sell off all my Nikon because they make certain lenses L-Alliance isn't road-mapping that I adore. Where the two systems have similar offerings Leica SL APO wins, and I think Nikon Z offerings otherwise win but not always. Having two systems enables a certain amount of cherry-picking, but is definitely like juggling two partners that each speak different languages - or so I imagine. ...Show more →
I'm a bit like you (although more than two systems). Basically, medium format when I can and 135 format otherwise. I've been through Sony, Canon and Nikon and I just don't need anything faster than the S1R (or SL2). I've kept a Sony and Nikon around because of the longer lenses but now I have a 150-600 for L mount, I really don't see the point, so I'm all in for L mount in smaller sensors, in a DSLR, style body. And I still maintain that used properly, very few people need anything more in AF speed. Missing a shot or having everything in perfect focus is an unhealthy obsession for some at the expense of better images. Fueled by Youtube bloggers who are usually more video than photography and not actually working in the stills or video industries, with some exceptions. I do still use my M's and occasionally CL. And I hold on to my Fuji X lenses in the hope of a higher resolution body (preferably XPro styled).
The high res modes (from Olympus, then others) do work, but not often enough for me. And I still like the admittedly small differences to the slightly larger sensor. I think the biggest difference in the GFX100 to the older sensor sensor is the colour, not the PDAF pixels, although I do agree that currently you can squeeze a tiny bit more out of a CDAF sensor, sometimes. If possible I'll take out my GFX 100S or X1D. The only real limitation is lens range, for me. Not only do I have 14-900mm (if I use the Sigma 1.4x) natively, I also can adapt T/S, macro and specialty lenses to the S1R/SL2 easily. Add in the spectacular Leica glass and it really is nearly perfect for my needs. Unfortunately my Z7 and Sony's haven't been used in months.
p.1 #17 · Is the Panasonic S1 or S1R under appreciated?
woodstork wrote:
Have you adapted Mamiya m645 glass to the S1R?
I have used nikon f, leica m, mamiya rz, mamiya 645, hasselblad zeiss and also adapted the sinar p3 with the lovely schneider 65mm. All work excellently. I have my rz 65mm f/4 on the camera now. great for close focus and super sharp with the floating focus element.
I have the 120mm Macro A and 150mm 2.8 A and have been wondering if I should buy a Fotodiox $200 T/S adapter.
That's a very nice adapter, should be great.
Also, a more generic question is does the high resolution mode work when adapting a fully manual non-electronic lens?
It works with all lenses. But your subject must be very still and your tripod stout.
That said my hasselblad x and leica 006 are doing much more landscape work than any other camera since I've had them. Look at the fujis too.
p.1 #18 · Is the Panasonic S1 or S1R under appreciated?
flash wrote:
From Leica and Sigma's point of view I think it's going well. Leica have adopted the same low volume approach as they do with M. New products come with an initial waiting list.
Only real sales volume numbers for the SL system would clarify this which we all don't have. But I am not convinced that the SL is selling as well as the M system - by far not. There are indirect hints pointing towards this: the excessive hype Leica pushes the SL system only in recent advertisements online and by influencer YouTubers whereas you don't hear as much about the M system - because the latter is selling well and M's are on waiting lists - not the case for SL2 cameras which you can get easily. Used market is flooded with SLs for relatively low/moderate prices, too. The M system maintains its benefit of small size gear with high image quality plus the collector appeal - all this is missing with the SL which has lots of external MLC competition. Bulkier SL body, bulkier lenses, just AF, internal EVF, and better video doesn't justify the price tag for many users.
p.1 #19 · Is the Panasonic S1 or S1R under appreciated?
AndereObjektiv wrote:
I have used nikon f, leica m, mamiya rz, mamiya 645, hasselblad zeiss and also adapted the sinar p3 with the lovely schneider 65mm. All work excellently. I have my rz 65mm f/4 on the camera now. great for close focus and super sharp with the floating focus element.
That's a very nice adapter, should be great.
It works with all lenses. But your subject must be very still and your tripod stout.
That said my hasselblad x and leica 006 are doing much more landscape work than any other camera since I've had them. Look at the fujis too.
Thank you!!! I agree Hassy X, Leica 006 and Fuji GFX are all fantastic landscape kit. Used to own GFX 100 but the mfd on all but 1 lens was too long for me, and use of extension tubes too limiting toward infinity on all of them except the GF 250. So despite the jaw-dropping IQ and detail I sold it. If the GF 23mm had about 1/3 closer mfd, I'd probably still be a GFX user. I just couldn't get quite close enough with them to get a lot of the perspectives I love. I might return to GFX pending the specifications and render of the ultrawide zoom and T/S lenses they just added to the roadmap. Hopefully they break the mold and design for closer focus.
p.1 #20 · Is the Panasonic S1 or S1R under appreciated?
retrofocus wrote:
Only real sales volume numbers for the SL system would clarify this which we all don't have. But I am not convinced that the SL is selling as well as the M system - by far not. There are indirect hints pointing towards this: the excessive hype Leica pushes the SL system only in recent advertisements online and by influencer YouTubers whereas you don't hear as much about the M system - because the latter is selling well and M's are on waiting lists - not the case for SL2 cameras which you can get easily. Used market is flooded with SLs for relatively low/moderate prices, too. The M system maintains its benefit of small size gear with high image quality plus the collector appeal - all this is missing with the SL which has lots of external MLC competition. Bulkier SL body, bulkier lenses, just AF, internal EVF, and better video doesn't justify the price tag for many users.
Even the article ends with an potentially optimistic note that the L-mount might still make it, I wouldn't place my bets on it. ...Show more →
I think Leica is pretty committed to SL and hope Panasonic is too. Leica has a rather unique business model and plays within a high-end market of their own making, but Panny seems to be competing within a very crowded niche. I worry they will abandon it absent higher market share, which is a shame because I find the S1R to be such an enabling body. They haven't done a great job marketing how it differs. I think the L-mount will survive through Leica even if Panny and Sigma abandon the Alliance. And they may simply reel in their participation. For example we will probably still get Sigma lenses made with L-mounts (same as they do now making L and E versions). And Panny will continue to make some lower-priced Leica-branded lenses for Leica. So, the alliance depends on Leica I think.
I've often wondered about the dynamic that leads to a fairly reliable supply of SL glass and bodies on the used market. I assume its driven by wealthy hobbyists with buyer's remorse. But who knows? It certainly isn't because the lenses are a disappointment.
