p.3 #4 · Wow. Venus Laowa announces 9mm full-frame rectilinear lens for Sony mount
Fred Miranda wrote:
Isn't the Laowa 9mm f/5.6 available in M mount? Any M to Canon RF adapter could make it work on the new Canon.
The reason why there is no RF version is to my information the even thicker filter stack of the RF cameras.
So without having it tested personally I would expect subpar performance on RF cameras.
p.3 #5 · Wow. Venus Laowa announces 9mm full-frame rectilinear lens for Sony mount
Why/how would that affect image quality for this lens when adapting from M mount to RF mount given a usable flange distance?
BastianK wrote:
The reason why there is no RF version is to my information the even thicker filter stack of the RF cameras.
So without having it tested personally I would expect subpar performance on RF cameras.
p.3 #6 · Wow. Venus Laowa announces 9mm full-frame rectilinear lens for Sony mount
I won't be changing my username which is also my business name. It worked out originally in part due to shooting Sony (Alpha) cameras but was also just meant to be a simple reputable sounding name. None of my clients know that I shoot Sony cameras or that Sony Alpha cameras are even a thing. I've received several compliments on the name so I'm happy with it for now. I'll always choose the best tool(s) for the job if they're within my budget. Right now I think Canon has the more well rounded camera/system for my needs with the R5 unless the reviews reveal some major flaws.
That could quickly change with an A7RV or A9III along with some interesting lens releases but I think we're at least 6-18 months away from that.
freaklikeme wrote:
The CV 10 is available in M-mount, which will adapt.
Also, are you going to change your screen name if you make the switch?
p.3 #7 · Wow. Venus Laowa announces 9mm full-frame rectilinear lens for Sony mount
The problem is the angle of incidence of the rays hitting the edges of the sensor. If the filter stack over the sensor is too thick, it will smear the image and, on non-BSI sensors, will create a purplish kind of vignetting. It's something we ran into in the early days of adapting rangefinder wides to Sony mirrorless. Kolarivision will do a modified sensor stack to thin it down so my a7rIII, for example, performs more like an M9.
That said, @BastianK, I thought the Canon cameras had a slightly thinner stack than Sony. That's not the case?
AlphaPhotography wrote:
Why/how would that affect image quality for this lens when adapting from M mount to RF mount given a usable flange distance?
p.3 #8 · Wow. Venus Laowa announces 9mm full-frame rectilinear lens for Sony mount
I was just making a bad joke. I wouldn't expect you to make a change to your screen name.
I am curious, though. What is it about the R5 and RF lenses that you find compelling? Is it the video features? The lenses? The Canon ergonomics? All of thee above?
AlphaPhotography wrote:
I won't be changing my username which is also my business name. It worked out originally in part due to shooting Sony (Alpha) cameras but was also just meant to be a simple reputable sounding name. None of my clients know that I shoot Sony cameras or that Sony Alpha cameras are even a thing. I've received several compliments on the name so I'm happy with it for now. I'll always choose the best tool(s) for the job if they're within my budget. Right now I think Canon has the more well rounded camera/system for my needs with the R5 unless the reviews reveal some major flaws.
That could quickly change with an A7RV or A9III along with some interesting lens releases but I think we're at least 6-18 months away from that.
p.3 #9 · Wow. Venus Laowa announces 9mm full-frame rectilinear lens for Sony mount
Lol I figured but it's also a fair question.
Yes it is the video features (will easily replace my GH5 which I use for high frame-rate video), the lenses (I love the idea of an 85mm f1.2, 28-70mm f2, compact 70-200mm f2.8, compact 100-500mm for travel, 15-35mm f2.8 for that extra 1mm on the wide end, and hopefully a 35mm f1.2 in the near future). The ergonomics/menus/better IBIS/better touchscreen/color science/fully articulating display and several other aspects are also compelling. My biggest concerns are dynamic range, high ISO, and rolling shutter/EVF blackout.
I’m a longtime Sony shooter who’s had the A6000, A6300, A7II, A7RII, A7RIII, and now A7RIV with ~$11,000 in lenses. My biggest complaints about the RIV/system are as follows:
-Skintones/color science for portraits. Much less of an issue than in years past with older Sony bodies but I still prefer Canon in this regard (when shooting RAW). The biggest issue I’ve had is subtle greenish hues that I’ve always struggled to fully correct without negatively affecting other parts of the image.
-Startup lag.
-Menus. They’ve gotten better but are still not great.
-Rear LCD quality/brightness.
-AF has been good but could be better (well known 200-600mm + A7RIV AF issue has been driving me mad and this $2000 has been a paperweight since last summer).
-1080p 120fps quality is mediocre and doesn’t allow in-camera slow-mo review like my GH5.
-No 4K 60fps or 4K 120fps.
-A7RIV high ISO/low light was a step down from the A7RIII.
-Lenses are great but missing some things I’d love like f1.2 primes and f2 zooms.
-No full articulating flip screen (although I’m not sure I’d prefer it in every scenario as others have discussed)
-Touchscreen is terrible (I keep it off).
-Ergonomics are so-so but much better than previous iterations.
-Smartphone app is terrible for remote control.
-Limited setting adjustment while card is writing.
Reasons I pre-ordered the Canon R5:
-4K 120fps
-Condense photo (A7RIV) and video (GH5) cameras into one body/system.
-Lenses. There are pros and cons for each but I love several of the RF lenses on paper including the RF 70-200mm f2.8 (the compact size is incredible for travel), the 85mm f1.2 (I shoot wide-open often and this lens appears to be sharper and faster AF than the Sony 85mm f1.4 GM), the 28-70mm f2 (huge but perfect for almost any event where f2.8 was always a hair slow), the 15-35mm f2.8 (the Sony 16-35mm GM is one of my favorite lenses and 15mm is a welcome bonus), the upcoming 100-500mm (the Sony 200-600 takes up so much room in my bag that I often don’t bring it + the AF is currently unusable with the A7RIV until Sony fixes the widespread issue). Hoping for a 35mm f1.2 soon.
-AF performance remains to be seen but I’d be happy if it was on par with the A7RIV and happier if it was closer to the A9.
-High ISO I’m hoping to be better than the A7RIV or similar.
-Expecting EVF, touchscreen, menus, ergonomics to all be better than my A7RIV.
-Hoping to see a 35mm f1.2 released soon as I was going to buy the Sigma 35mm f1.2 recently.
-Hoping for some budget ultra-wide options soon (like Laowa 9mm or Voigtlander 10mm which I own)
Overall I do love the A7RIV and many things about the Sony system but the Canon R5 + RF lenses are compelling. The only negatives I see aside from cost are the slightly lower resolution, potentially worse dynamic range, and lack of better LOG profiles for video.
Unless I see some serious negative feedback in the next few weeks I’m all-in on Canon. Planning on ordering the 15-35mm f2.8 and 70-200mm f2.8 soon to get started. The 100-500mm is already on pre-order. Hoping I don’t regret it.
Still waiting for real world reviews and I'm a little worried about why they are taking so long to be available. I'm hoping it's just an NDA issue due to most having only used pre-production models until recently.
freaklikeme wrote:
I was just making a bad joke. I wouldn't expect you to make a change to your screen name.
I am curious, though. What is it about the R5 and RF lenses that you find compelling? Is it the video features? The lenses? The Canon ergonomics? All of thee above?
p.3 #10 · Wow. Venus Laowa announces 9mm full-frame rectilinear lens for Sony mount
freaklikeme wrote:
That said, @BastianK@, I thought the Canon cameras had a slightly thinner stack than Sony. That's not the case?
I have no options to measure the stack of those cameras myself, but from what I have gathered:
Kolari UT < Leica M < Nikon Z < Sony E < Canon RF
That being said I also read reports on a german board that the stack of L-mount cameras differs,
so Leica SL, Panasonic S and Sigma FP seem to have different stack thickness, oh well...
p.3 #12 · Wow. Venus Laowa announces 9mm full-frame rectilinear lens for Sony mount
From Kolari teardowns:
Z7 1.1mm
S1R 1.45mm
Canon R 1.6mm
Sony 2mm
Per Jono's Leica reviews, M has 1 layer glass vs SL2 has 2 layers and S1R has 3 layers of glass on the sensor. FP is most probably similar to S1/S1R. I see also reports of more vignetting with the new 40MP Leica sensor compared to 24MP sensor...
When I searched, there were postings regarding to Canon R color shift with M lenses similar to 1st gen A7/A7R... That might be an issue with Laowa...
BastianK wrote:
I have no options to measure the stack of those cameras myself, but from what I have gathered:
Kolari UT < Leica M < Nikon Z < Sony E < Canon RF
That being said I also read reports on a german board that the stack of L-mount cameras differs,
so Leica SL, Panasonic S and Sigma FP seem to have different stack thickness, oh well...
p.3 #13 · Wow. Venus Laowa announces 9mm full-frame rectilinear lens for Sony mount
tntcorp wrote:
that's kinda silly. why would anyone use an adapted lens when the native mount is available? 🤔
I have a CV15 in M-mount. I get AF via TAP, MF via Hawks V5. It is well centered. I can shoot on Leica if I want. I can keep going but the point is that I have lots of flexibility with my M-mount lenses, and I have several.
p.3 #14 · Wow. Venus Laowa announces 9mm full-frame rectilinear lens for Sony mount
and if you ever switch systems, you keep the lens...
Furthermore, since the adapter in this case has not optics or electronics, a good fitting adapter should be the same as the "native" version.
p.3 #15 · Wow. Venus Laowa announces 9mm full-frame rectilinear lens for Sony mount
Technically, it's a type of crosstalk, but it's the same thing I mentioned earlier (purple vignetting). The wider the lens' angle of view and the closer the exit pupil is to the sensor, the steeper the angle of incidence for the preponderance of rays reaching the outer image circle. For CMOS sensors, that's always been a problem and it gets more complex with high resolution sensors where the sensor wells are smaller and the walls between them thinner. Sensor designs compensate for this with color filter arrays and microlenses to help direct and shape the light, and in the sensor itself (Sony's BSI sensors do a better job with crosstalk than their older sensors, for example). The processing chain within the camera can also help mitigate it in the produced images so long as it has the necessary instructions on interpreting information from the sensor, but it has to be told what lens is being used and how to apply corrections for that lens. So you'll never get that benefit when using an adapted lens. There's also features in post-production software that can help to mitigate the effect. Most do an excellent job in allowing you to build profiles specific to color, but not quite as good at restoring shapes and definition.
Using adapted lenses will always be a game of what you can make fit and what flaws you can accept. Assuming you do go with the R5, I'd recommend renting an M-adapter and lenses and seeing if you can live with the performance quirks.
AlphaPhotography wrote:
I emailed Laowa asking how I can use the 9mm on the Canon R5 (RF mount) and received the following response:
“Sorry we didnt make the lens in R5 as there is a big color cast on the camera for some reasons.”
p.3 #16 · Wow. Venus Laowa announces 9mm full-frame rectilinear lens for Sony mount
I received the Laowa 9/5.6 yesterday and took it out for a few shots today. I am having some weird issues - I don't get the magnification screen when focusing (any ideas?) - and am still learning the lens, but initial impressions are very positive. Its sharp enough (certainly not cutting sharp) and I love the ultra wide perspective. I am attaching a few of my favorite from today, as well as a link to the flickr account where I will be posting pics from this lens (https://flic.kr/s/aHsmPASa5m). Would love to see other peoples pics with this lens.
p.3 #17 · Wow. Venus Laowa announces 9mm full-frame rectilinear lens for Sony mount
If memory serves, there is no electronic communication between the lens and the camera, assuming it's like my 15. So you have to map the magnification to one of the buttons on the camera. I actually prefer that over it happening automitically.
p.3 #18 · Wow. Venus Laowa announces 9mm full-frame rectilinear lens for Sony mount
Nice samples!
Since there is no electronic communication between the lens and the camera you will not get automatic magnification while focusing. You need to activate the magnification function on the camera (check the menu to see which button is assigned to do this).
TravelinBriNY wrote:
I received the Laowa 9/5.6 yesterday and took it out for a few shots today. I am having some weird issues - I don't get the magnification screen when focusing (any ideas?) - and am still learning the lens, but initial impressions are very positive. Its sharp enough (certainly not cutting sharp) and I love the ultra wide perspective. I am attaching a few of my favorite from today, as well as a link to the flickr account where I will be posting pics from this lens (https://flic.kr/s/aHsmPASa5m). Would love to see other peoples pics with this lens.
