Just a heads-up for anyone considering buying "open box" Sony gear from stores that have a liberal return policy... at least one scammer has figured out that the Sony serial number stickers on lenses can easily be removed and switched.
I recently bought an open box Sony lens from a very reputable store, who had accepted it back from a customer who had purchased it only five days previously. The staff member accepting the return obviously didn't bother checking the condition of the lens, but as it turns out, what was inside the box was an old, well-used lens, with lots of paint chips, scrapes, and dirt - certainly not only 5 days of use, no matter how rough you are with your equipment. The thing is, the lens had a serial number sticker that matched the one on the box, which in turn matched the sales receipt for the 5-day old lens. Judging by the amount of adhesive residue around the serial number sticker, we came to the conclusion that the previous buyer must have kept the new lens, and switched serial number stickers with his old lens.
The store is going out of their way to rectify the problem on my end, but they may not have much luck getting any satisfaction from the scammer. I suspect this store will be very hesitant to accept returns on Sony products going forward - external damage may be easy to spot, but internal damage is a lot harder to identify without testing the lens. Unfortunately, this just spoils things for the rest of us...
Or just buy new from Greentoe and don’t take the risk if you’re looking to save some money. Open box that is not refurbed by the manufacturer is the worst gamble you can take. Glad they are helping you out at least.
I’d buy used from FM before I’d buy retail open box. Once returned a known defective hard drive to Frys and watched him slap an open box sale sticker on it AFTER I told him it was defective.
RoamingScott wrote:
Or just buy new from Greentoe and don’t take the risk if you’re looking to save some money. Open box that is not refurbed by the manufacturer is the worst gamble you can take. Glad they are helping you out at least.
I’d buy used from FM before I’d buy retail open box. Once returned a known defective hard drive to Frys and watched him slap an open box sale sticker on it AFTER I told him it was defective.
Trouble is, a lot of stores list new products as "open box" to get around Sony's MAP restrictions. It still has the full Sony warranty, although a lens like the one I got would probably not qualify once Sony saw the condition.
Greentoe is USA-only, and I wouldn't be surprised if what gets sold there isn't returned product as well; you really have no way of knowing for certain.
RoamingScott wrote:
Or just buy new from Greentoe and don’t take the risk if you’re looking to save some money. Open box that is not refurbed by the manufacturer is the worst gamble you can take. Glad they are helping you out at least.
I’d buy used from FM before I’d buy retail open box. Once returned a known defective hard drive to Frys and watched him slap an open box sale sticker on it AFTER I told him it was defective.
I have twice received clearly "pre-enjoyed" items from a greentoe reseller. Same seller both times. I returned both items and was eventually refunded after intervention by greentoe.
All greentoe sales are supposed to be new USA warrantied items. Clearly some resellers use it as an outlet for customer returns. You have no control over which reseller might respond to your offer.
In any case, this would not be so much of a problem if Sony used permanent serial numbers. What's to stop someone from swapping out all their lenses every couple of years for new ones, as long as retailers accept returns?
molson wrote:
In any case, this would not be so much of a problem if Sony used permanent serial numbers. What's to stop someone from swapping out all their lenses every couple of years for new ones, as long as retailers accept returns?
I too have been very disappointed with their method of serializing the products. I've bought all my gear new and with normal use, some of the serial tags are already fraying on the ends. Much prefer Canon in this regard, at least with lenses. Always hated the way Canon just printed the body serial on the base plate sticker though, using a tripod plate for any amount of time would wear that right off.
Somehow the Russians had this figured out 40 year ago with the Helios lenses, embossed into the barrel AND highlighted with green for easy finding!
RoamingScott wrote:
I too have been very disappointed with their method of serializing the products. I've bought all my gear new and with normal use, some of the serial tags are already fraying on the ends. Much prefer Canon in this regard, at least with lenses. Always hated the way Canon just printed the body serial on the base plate sticker though, using a tripod plate for any amount of time would wear that right off.
Somehow the Russians had this figured out 40 year ago with the Helios lenses, embossed into the barrel AND highlighted with green for easy finding!
Nikon (and presumably every other camera maker) has been engraving serial numbers on lenses since... forever (or at least since the 1950's in the case of some Nikkor lenses I've owned).
Camera body serial numbers are a little different, since they are stored in the EXIF data so it's possible to check that numbers match properly. I think Canon records lens serial numbers in the EXIF data as well.
jeffbuzz wrote:
I have twice received clearly "pre-enjoyed" items from a greentoe reseller. Same seller both times. I returned both items and was eventually refunded after intervention by greentoe.
All greentoe sales are supposed to be new USA warrantied items. Clearly some resellers use it as an outlet for customer returns. You have no control over which reseller might respond to your offer.
Same here ... received a camera with quite a few actuations and when I questioned the seller on it, I was told that it was their showroom/customer demo camera. In the end, it got straightened out, but it left a pretty sour taste in my mouth regarding Greentoe.
Of course the chance is high that a lens which is sold is either a) faulty (decentered, whatever) or b) not a good lens to begin with. The only strategy is: If the used lens you buy is expensive, always have a return policy; otherwise only buy cheap (e.g. vintage) lenses so that the loss is not that great if you get a faulty one.
Or you can join the assholes and resell the faulty lens...
Got to agree with RoamingScott, I too would rather (and have done a lot) use the B&S forum here on FM than 'open box' from whomever or Greentoe. IMO, many become so price driven that caution is thrown to the wind and the negative stories ensue. I like the FM concept of photographers dealing directly with photographers. Each of my transactions have gone smoothly and resulted in a great experience.
I've bought open box lenses from both B&H (CV 15) and a local online stores (used Samyang 135 f2 and Sony 85 1.8) and never had issues with any of them.
I have however had some bad experiences with Amazon with opened 'new' copies. My Sony 100-400 GM being the worst example. Buying equipment is just fickle in general. Sure you can find a good deal online but there's always the risk that it was a previously returned copy or something DOA that doesn't get taken out of the inventory.
I currently have a discounted Sigma 24-70 DG DN coming in from Amazon and I can only suspect that there might be a reason for the discount in the first place, so I'll have to test it thoroughlywhen I get it. That's just the nature of the beast I think. Online retailers care about pushing boxes around, and they don't mind it when a customer might have to sent something back and forth a few times.
SoundHound wrote:
Always wonder whether used lenses are just the “bad copy” rejects written of in this forum.
There was a guy on one of the Sony FB groups a few days ago, bargain that he had recently purchased 40 lenses from Amazon to test, and had returned 37 of them... and wondered why everyone else wasn't doing the same thing.
There is a retail chain store in Victoria that sells a lot of camera gear, and has a 30-day, no-questions-asked return policy. They also have on customer that buys cameras to photograph weddings for a few weeks and then just returns the cameras, basically using the store as a source of free rental gear. I don't know which is worse - the fact that the store's management knows about it and won't change their return policy, or that they still try to sell his returns as "new" product.
schlotz wrote:
Got to agree with RoamingScott, I too would rather (and have done a lot) use the B&S forum here on FM than 'open box' from whomever or Greentoe. IMO, many become so price driven that caution is thrown to the wind and the negative stories ensue. I like the FM concept of photographers dealing directly with photographers. Each of my transactions have gone smoothly and resulted in a great experience.
I spent a fair bit of time looking for a good used copy of the lens in question, but couldn't find anyone selling one for less than what they cost new.
I don't mind buying "open box" stuff from stores I trust, especially when the choice is to potentially wait weeks for new product because stores are dramatically cutting back on inventory during the pandemic. The store I bought the bad lens from has already shipped me a brand new one at no extra cost. However, after this experience, I won't be buying any more "open box" Sony gear from anyone else unless I can inspect it first.
molson wrote:
There was a guy on one of the Sony FB groups a few days ago, bargain that he had recently purchased 40 lenses from Amazon to test, and had returned 37 of them... and wondered why everyone else wasn't doing the same thing.
There is a retail chain store in Victoria that sells a lot of camera gear, and has a 30-day, no-questions-asked return policy. They also have on customer that buys cameras to photograph weddings for a few weeks and then just returns the cameras, basically using the store as a source of free rental gear. I don't know which is worse - the fact that the store's management knows about it and won't change their return policy, or that they still try to sell his returns as "new" product....Show more →
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