As soon as I read crap like this I just totally roll my eyes and stop reading: "Looking at ISO 6400 now on the D6, you would think it was ISO 2000 on a D5"
What interests me is not only the new autofocus, which Nikon claims is a huge jump over the D5's AF, is the alleged quieter operation of the D6. I saw in one video review that it was more like a well-oiled machine and quieter. The sound has been my main complaint about the D5, and I often shoot in Qc to minimize it. The D810 is the most pleasing-sounded FX DSLR that I've used, and I regret that the newer cameras don't have the option to shoot at max 5fps with that kind of a sound. The Qc mode has a more noticeable delay and although I've gotten used to it and can adapt to it, I would like to see another quiet mode that is intermediate between Qc and the regular shooting modes. I'm hoping the D6's sound will be nice.
With regards to the AF of the D5, with f/5.6 lenses only the central 45 points are cross-type and often I find the (500/5.6) lens to hunt in dimmer light when using off-center focus points. Although I'm not sure how the lens aperture affects cross-type point choices in the D6, I'm hoping all points will act as cross-type with f/5.6 lenses. I'm optimistic, until proven otherwise! Even if this doesn't prove out to be true, I welcome the evenly spaced AF points with fewer gaps than D5, and the fact that all points are cross-type at least with fast lenses (exact details will be found in the manual).
I think the customizable group-area AF will also be very useful in many situations. But I am mostly interested in the increased gapless cross-type AF point coverage as well as the quieter operation.
The Group AF customization is the only feature that interests me in this camera. Hope that comes to the future pro Z camera along with an AF system that can challenge the D5/D6 system.
I'd like to know how much menu diving is involved to change the Group pattern. Also can Group with a certain pattern be assigned to AF-ON and then Group with a different pattern be assigned to say Pv (AF Area + AF-ON) for example. That would be killer but I doubt it. I think you will need to assign changing the pattern to My Menu as the quickest way available (maybe you can assign it to a Fn button?) and I don't think you will be able to differentiate different Group AF patterns as separate AF-ON button functions.
Where is the manual
Also what is up with that NR story. It says D6 are shipping now to NPS yet then shows an NPS email that specifically states it will ship on May 21st. Then another press release saying general D6 shipping starts on May 21st. I see nothing in the actual article that shows it is shipping now?
And to continue my rant...that gymnastics guy seems pretty excited for features like 14FPS and being able to select the start point....news flash....1DXII had 14FPS in 2016, A9 had 20FPS in 2017, 1DXIII has 16FPS and 20FPS options in 2020. Canon could select the start point since the original 61 pt system on the 5D3/1DX...Sony has had it for ages....this D6 is so far behind for a 2020 camera.
That all said, it still may well have the best DSLR OVF based (ie separate AF sensor) AF system available.
The manual is released when the camera goes into stores.
And to continue my rant...that gymnastics guy seems pretty excited for features like 14FPS and being able to select the start point....news flash....1DXII had 14FPS in 2016, A9 had 20FPS in 2017, 1DXIII has 16FPS and 20FPS options in 2020. Canon could select the start point since the original 61 pt system on the 5D3/1DX...Sony has had it for ages....this D6 is so far behind for a 2020 camera.
Nikon have had selection of the starting point since 2007 in 3D tracking. Now it's also in auto-area AF.
14 fps or however many shots per second is meaningless if some of the shots are out of focus. The excitement in specs like this is in the context of how usable the feature is, not what the specified number is. I believe the old D5 did very well in comparisons against its peers where there was athlete running towards the camera, either straight or in a zig-zag erratic pattern, in terms of how large a percentage of shots were in focus. The D6 has a new system, which needs to be put into use before its performance is known. The specifications are meaningless without knowledge of how the camera performs in the real world.
arbitrage wrote:
As soon as I read crap like this I just totally roll my eyes and stop reading: "Looking at ISO 6400 now on the D6, you would think it was ISO 2000 on a D5"
Sports photographers often shoot JPG because that's what they are required to submit, and for faster workflow. In the processing of the data to create a jpg, there can very well be a large difference in the outcome between cameras because of algorithm development. Whether it is as the photographer in this case says is subjective. The D5 high-ISO noise reduction algorithm is actually quite bad and results in blotchy output. I quickly learned to turn high ISO noise reduction OFF to avoid such an appearance (not that it matters when shooting RAW outside of the Nikon software environment). To a JPG shooter it may be meaningful. Of course there is always a lot of fluff and excitement when a new camera is launched.
sjms wrote:
gee, i hope it will actually make a difference in your pics
These differences are mainly in how easy it is to get certain results, and usually a photographer is selective enough not to let it affect the images that they present. But in any given moment a shot can be in or out of focus, and that can be meaningful if it is a unique moment. I was watching a talk by a photographer who had shot at many Olympics and other such events and he didn't seem to happy to shoot the sprints and hurdles at the typical beyond end of the finish line position, where there are many other photographers. At first the runners are too small and only when they are quite close to the finish line is there some sensible possibility to shoot. It then only takes a couple of seconds and it's all over. He showed an image where the winner had a good expression and was jubilant just after the race and the camera (1DX II I believe) missed the focus on that one moment that could have been a great shot. So ... in such cases, where there are dozens or hundreds of other photographers, it does matter who gets that one moment in focus.
(Not that I would ever be there.)
One can get great shots even with manual focus, the possibilities of new technology (of this particular type) are in how easy it is to get certain shots. Whether that matters enough to buy a product is up to the individual's discretion. Personally I find the most annoying thing is to wade through slightly out-of-focus shots (which can happen, when shooting fast action in difficult light, especially with high-resolution cameras), and I enjoy it when I don't have to deal with such things. When high resolution first came out in the D800 it was common that shooting wide open with a fast prime, one could get 20% of shots in focus using the corner (rule of thirds) points of the AF array (the linear corner points are compositionally often very desirable but the least reliable). Things have hugely improved since that time in 2012 and I am happy that they have, and continue to do so. Selecting images on the computer is the least pleasant part of photography for me and the less I have to overshoot to be confident that I got the shot, the better it is in minimizing the time I spend on editing.
ilkka_nissila wrote:
The manual is released when the camera goes into stores.
Ah okay. I must be thinking of other manufacturers that seem to have manuals out a ways before the release date. A quick google search showed that the D500 manual was released 8 days before release so I was hoping Nikon would release it a little early...maybe they still will. The D850 released only a day before. D5 was three days before.
ilkka_nissila wrote:
These differences are mainly in how easy it is to get certain results, and usually a photographer is selective enough not to let it affect the images that they present. But in any given moment a shot can be in or out of focus, and that can be meaningful if it is a unique moment. I was watching a talk by a photographer who had shot at many Olympics and other such events and he didn't seem to happy to shoot the sprints and hurdles at the typical beyond end of the finish line position, where there are many other photographers. At first the runners are too small and only when they are quite close to the finish line is there some sensible possibility to shoot. It then only takes a couple of seconds and it's all over. He showed an image where the winner had a good expression and was jubilant just after the race and the camera (1DX II I believe) missed the focus on that one moment that could have been a great shot. So ... in such cases, where there are dozens or hundreds of other photographers, it does matter who gets that one moment in focus.
(Not that I would ever be there.)
One can get great shots even with manual focus, the possibilities of new technology (of this particular type) are in how easy it is to get certain shots. Whether that matters enough to buy a product is up to the individual's discretion. Personally I find the most annoying thing is to wade through slightly out-of-focus shots (which can happen, when shooting fast action in difficult light, especially with high-resolution cameras), and I enjoy it when I don't have to deal with such things. When high resolution first came out in the D800 it was common that shooting wide open with a fast prime, one could get 20% of shots in focus using the corner (rule of thirds) points of the AF array (the linear corner points are compositionally often very desirable but the least reliable). Things have hugely improved since that time in 2012 and I am happy that they have, and continue to do so. Selecting images on the computer is the least pleasant part of photography for me and the less I have to overshoot to be confident that I got the shot, the better it is in minimizing the time I spend on editing. ...Show more →
no, i'm sorry, i've been shooting too many years to buy into this. yes it is neat to have the new nuance that has been added but really it's still that thing behind it that needs to know how to navigate his/her craft. the weak ones whine. the strong ones shoot to get their shot. and in their minds they generally have a pretty good idea how to. with or w/o the tech.
all the stories that are told. i was shooting in Atlanta 96 with a shiny new F5 moved up from the F4s. did a whole lot of the bicycle events on the back of a MC. no indoors. the only really cool thing was the easily swapped battery pack. it just plowed through film. you did not drop a thing during an event. that was a career ender there. i have much more interesting eye openers in my other works performed. i did the first Tour of New York with my OM system cameras. that was the precursor to the Tour De Trump (which was Crap)
arbitrage wrote:
Also what is up with that NR story. It says D6 are shipping now to NPS yet then shows an NPS email that specifically states it will ship on May 21st. Then another press release saying general D6 shipping starts on May 21st. I see nothing in the actual article that shows it is shipping now?
sjms wrote:
no, i'm sorry, i've been shooting too many years to buy into this. yes it is neat to have the new nuance that has been added but really it's still that thing behind it that needs to know how to navigate his/her craft. the weak ones whine. the strong ones shoot to get their shot. and in their minds they generally have a pretty good idea how to. with or w/o the tech.
I'm sure you never missed a shot and never got a shot that was out of focus even with manual focus gear.
One of the more difficult things I've had to shoot was part of the Lights On! project where locations such as old castle ruins were used as grounds for various events, to bring people awareness of these sites and to find use for them. In one situation, dancers were in a dark room inside the castle and it was completely dark except for the flashlight in the hands of the dancer. The dancers moved in the available shape in darkness and then for a moment gave a short pulse of light from the flashlight. In that time I had to get the shots. In that situation the 35/1.4 wasn't able to get anything in focus despite repeated attempts, but the 24-70/2.8E did, however, because of the small aperture of the zoom, I had to use ISO 102400 to get shots.
If you always get the shot, then you probably are not trying something that is genuinely difficult. I don't mean this in a bad way, but my point is just that the technological evolution of autofocus as well as digital sensors have had a profound effect on what kind of shots can be successfully executed especially in darkness under time pressure. (I'm not suggesting the above shots as special it just happened to be a shot I got from that particular situation which I found difficult even with modern technology available.)
Right. I never said I get all shots at all times. But I get them more then most. Even back in the ancient times using manual focus. did a lot of zone focus.
how about a Brian Eno art installation in NYC with a very sophisticated Fuji X20 P/S
I'm not so sure they will have a lot of D6 sitting around unsold, at least not for a while. My shop was contacted by Nikon last month asking them to contact everyone on their pre-order lists and ask if the person still wanted the D6 pre-order. The stated reason was so they could get a count to see if they would have enough to ship in May. Given the late May shipment, maybe they had to wait a few extra weeks. Or not.
For me, there's a few new features I think I'll really like and of course I'm hoping my keeper rate will go up a little more. I have to say both the D850 and D5 keeper rates were loads better for me, like night and day better for my style of shooting. Still hoping both AF and ISO improvements will be noticeable. Finally there's the new factor, I mean who doesn't love a shiny new toy? (there, someone said it!)
Now if I can just get enough time away from work to actually put it to some real use.
We'll all know a lot more in a few weeks, to me the speculation is pointless. Some will be happy with the D6, some not so much, and well there's always the haters...
