p.2 #1 · Sony 200-600mm failure of the foot attachment
osv2 wrote:
the corner of the recessed mount area is cracked out, which indicates that the lens was dropped on it's foot.
i don't see how screws breaking could have caused that crack, the lens would have simply fallen away if it was just broken screws.
Incorrect. I was still holding the foot well after the lens had hit the ground. I was walking and holding it by the foot at the time and I felt a sudden lightness and in an instant I knew what had happened
Apr 15, 2020 at 11:25 AM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.2 #2 · Sony 200-600mm failure of the foot attachment
149113 wrote:
I agree that it looks like they sheered off. I think the crack in the pocket for the plate happened when it hit the ground.
i don't see how that could happen, because your shot of the camera body shows damage to the top of the camera, which is the opposite side of the lens from where the foot is attached.
it looks like the lens mount was damaged prior to the drop, like swinging it around on a monopod over your shoulder, banging it into a tree or something.
p.2 #3 · Sony 200-600mm failure of the foot attachment
osv2 wrote:
i don't see how that could happen, because your shot of the camera body shows damage to the top of the camera, which is the opposite side of the lens from where the foot is attached.
it looks like the lens mount was damaged prior to the drop, like swinging it around on a monopod over your shoulder, banging it into a tree or something.
If it's being held by the foot the top of the camera is facing down to ground. When it falls that is the first impact point along with the lens hood which suffered no damage due to the neoprene sleeve being attached. Seems you are not getting that.
p.2 #4 · Sony 200-600mm failure of the foot attachment
osv2 wrote:
the corner of the recessed mount area is cracked out, which indicates that the lens was dropped on it's foot.
i don't see how screws breaking could have caused that crack, the lens would have simply fallen away if it was just broken screws.
this was my first thought as well.
on the (Oof) image of the plate i see one screw hole which clearly appears to be egg shaped and another screw hole (or two) that seems to show surrounding metal has been forced out of shape into a small ripple.
there also seems to be significant impact wear on one of the edges.
on the lens- the unpainted portion of 'pocket receiver' of the plate shows a lot of wear (impact damage wear) particularly along the entire length on one side (the same side as the crack) and the wall of the pocket adjacent to the impact wear is warped.
I would guess the lens was dropped and dropped hard at some point whether by you or by someone else with out your knowing.
p.2 #5 · Sony 200-600mm failure of the foot attachment
Paul_100A wrote:
this was my first thought as well.
on the (Oof) image of the plate i see one screw hole which clearly appears to be egg shaped and another screw hole (or two) that seems to show surrounding metal has been forced out of shape into a small ripple.
there also seems to be significant impact wear on one of the edges.
on the lens- the unpainted portion of 'pocket receiver' of the plate shows a lot of wear (impact damage wear) particularly along the entire length on one side (the same side as the crack) and the wall of the pocket adjacent to the impact wear is warped.
I would guess the lens was dropped and dropped hard at some point whether by you or by someone else with out your knowing....Show more →
Not to discount some of the "theories" here but this lens has been babied for almost it's entire lifespan. It rides shotgun on the front seat of the vehicle 80% of the time when I am scouting for animals. It is shot almost entirely from the window on a bean bag. It travels longer distances in a neoprene packet that is then stored in a padded Manfrotto backpack: both in the car and in the air. It never leaves my sight when boarding a plane. The foot is reversed up when shooting in the car vs reversed down when walking around with it or when planning to use on a tripod to shoot video - which was the intended use on this day.
I am telling you what exactly what occurred here. It's not some made up story to cover for negligence and it's slightly off putting to read some of this feedback but I guess people are trying to process it in their own way.
As indicated there was some looseness in the plate connection to the lens. I ignored it as slightly off tolerance situation. My theory is that at least one of the tiny screws was already gone - likely opposite where where the plate pocket was deformed. When the others went it was an uneven separation that caused the pocket to buckle on the last remaining attached screw. It all happened so fast - one second I have weight in my hand and the next I am holding nothing but a foot and plate
p.2 #6 · Sony 200-600mm failure of the foot attachment
jpk1018jk wrote:
Sorry that this happened but I am sure more folks will now be checking theirs mine included. Mine were tight but after seeing how tiny the screws are I went and put on a leash so to prevent that from happening to me. The screws on mine are phillips head not hex and here is my solution that I got when I purchased the strap I use to hand hold carry the 200-600.
i'm not sure about the material of the strap connecting to the lug, but i would want to use two straps to both lugs. if the screws failed, you would at least have 2 straps for redundancy.
for large telephotos, i used the lens lugs to attach a strap, which goes on my shoulder and across my chest, and handhold the lens by the foot.
p.2 #7 · Sony 200-600mm failure of the foot attachment
149113 wrote:
Not to discount some of the "theories" here but this lens has been babied for almost it's entire lifespan. It rides shotgun on the front seat of the vehicle 80% of the time when I am scouting for animals. It is shot almost entirely from the window on a bean bag. It travels longer distances in a neoprene packet that is then stored in a padded Manfrotto backpack: both in the car and in the air. It never leaves my sight when boarding a plane. The foot is reversed up when shooting in the car vs reversed down when walking around with it or when planning to use on a tripod to shoot video - which was the intended use on this day.
I am telling you what exactly what occurred here. It's not some made up story to cover for negligence and it's slightly off putting to read some of this feedback but I guess people are trying to process it in their own way.
As indicated there was some looseness in the plate connection to the lens. I ignored it as slightly off tolerance situation. My theory is that at least one of the tiny screws was already gone - likely opposite where where the plate pocket was deformed. When the others went it was an uneven separation that caused the pocket to buckle on the last remaining attached screw. It all happened so fast - one second I have weight in my hand and the next I am holding nothing but a foot and plate ...Show more →
i don't doubt your story. any plays or loosenes with the attaching plate will cause undue stress on the attaching screws overtime.
p.2 #8 · Sony 200-600mm failure of the foot attachment
tntcorp wrote:
i don't doubt your story. any plays or loosenes with the attaching plate will cause undue stress on the attaching screws overtime.
The lesson here for me is to address the single points of failure as much as possible in the future. Hoping that the lens is OK and that the damage to the A7RIV is just cosmetic in nature and not IBIS or some other part that is costly to repair. It sickens me that this happened. I take such good care of my equipment to a point of pride. It shouldn't be a lot to expect a lens foot/plate to bear the weight of the lens and small camera body but maybe that's just the way it is.
p.2 #9 · Sony 200-600mm failure of the foot attachment
149113 wrote:
Not to discount some of the "theories" here but this lens has been babied for almost it's entire lifespan. It rides shotgun on the front seat of the vehicle 80% of the time when I am scouting for animals. It is shot almost entirely from the window on a bean bag. It travels longer distances in a neoprene packet that is then stored in a padded Manfrotto backpack: both in the car and in the air. It never leaves my sight when boarding a plane. The foot is reversed up when shooting in the car vs reversed down when walking around with it or when planning to use on a tripod to shoot video - which was the intended use on this day.
I am telling you what exactly what occurred here. It's not some made up story to cover for negligence and it's slightly off putting to read some of this feedback but I guess people are trying to process it in their own way.
As indicated there was some looseness in the plate connection to the lens. I ignored it as slightly off tolerance situation. My theory is that at least one of the tiny screws was already gone - likely opposite where where the plate pocket was deformed. When the others went it was an uneven separation that caused the pocket to buckle on the last remaining attached screw. It all happened so fast - one second I have weight in my hand and the next I am holding nothing but a foot and plate ...Show more →
i'm not accusing you of negligence or framing a cover up. one way or the other matters not to me.
i do not doubt that you babied the lens and had done from day one of it being in your possession. i do the same with all of my gear.
i'm suggesting that it took a drop and that drop could have happened before you had the lens in your possession, or while it was in your possession but without your knowledge.
do you ever lend your gear or do people in your house have access to your gear?
no need to respond...just food for thought.
p.2 #10 · Sony 200-600mm failure of the foot attachment
Paul_100A wrote:
i'm not accusing you of negligence or framing a cover up. one way or the other matters not to me.
i do not doubt that you babied the lens and had done from day one of it being in your possession. i do the same with all of my gear.
i'm suggesting that it took a drop and that drop could have happened before you had the lens in your possession, or while it was in your possession but without your knowledge.
do you ever lend your gear or do people in your house have access to your gear?
no need to respond...just food for thought.
No disrespect meant and none taken. No one has had access to the lens but me and that is from the moment it arrived back in August from Amazon. And when I have it out in the field it's treated very well. I've probably shot around 30k images with it thus far but you cannot tell. Before this accident I could have resold it as mint (both from an interior and exterior perspective) and been completely within the rules of grading. It's first images were with taken with the neoprene cover on.
Plus, I've been a huge proponent of the lens. For $2K it's excellent. Sure I'd like to have the 600GM but I am not sure clients would be willing to pay for similar images shot on both lenses that to their eye are not all that different. Clients don't appreciate bokeh and micro contrast the way we do.
p.2 #11 · Sony 200-600mm failure of the foot attachment
149113 wrote:
No disrespect meant and none taken. No one has had access to the lens but me and that is from the moment it arrived back in August from Amazon. And when I have it out in the field it's treated very well. I've probably shot around 30k images with it thus far but you cannot tell. Before this accident I could have resold it as mint (both from an interior and exterior perspective) and been completely within the rules of grading. It's first images were with taken with the neoprene cover on.
Plus, I've been a huge proponent of the lens. For $2K it's excellent. Sure I'd like to have the 600GM but I am not sure clients would be willing to pay for similar images shot on both lenses that to their eye are not all that different. Clients don't appreciate bokeh and micro contrast the way we do....Show more →
Well I certainly feel for you especially due to the fact that I now how'd I feel to have that happen to me as I am a total gear babier as well.
Thanks for posting as it's a good reminder to the rest of us to take a quick look at our stuff.
Apr 15, 2020 at 01:28 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.2 #12 · Sony 200-600mm failure of the foot attachment
149113 wrote:
If it's being held by the foot the top of the camera is facing down to ground. When it falls that is the first impact point...
that repeats what i just told you... the lens did not hit the ground on the foot side, because the foot side was facing up.
however, you claimed that: "I think the crack in the pocket for the plate happened when it hit the ground"... my point was, how did the foot pocket get cracked if it was facing up, and never hit the ground.
whatever... you should have tightened the screws when you first noticed it.
losing a lens like that is a real bummer, i'm just not sure that sony should warranty it.
p.2 #13 · Sony 200-600mm failure of the foot attachment
osv2 wrote:
that repeats what i just told you... the lens did not hit the ground on the foot side, because the foot side was facing up.
however, you claimed that: "I think the crack in the pocket for the plate happened when it hit the ground"... my point was, how did the foot pocket get cracked if it was facing up, and never hit the ground.
whatever... you should have tightened the screws when you first noticed it.
losing a lens like that is a real bummer, i'm just not sure that sony should warranty it.
I've since corrected my original statement about how the pocket was deformed. It was when the last screw gave way. It is clear now that this is exactly what happened. And your original comment was how did the top of the camera get damaged if it was facing up was not correct or that it hit a tree or was swung around on a tripod. Complete nonsense. And we'll agree to disagree on whether this is a poor design or who is accountable. Sony will ultimately decide that but as a pro member I expect better. The screws being used to attach the plate are micro screws which are never seen in use for something like a lens connection that is expected to sustain 5lbs + the weight of the camera.
Apr 15, 2020 at 03:05 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.2 #14 · Sony 200-600mm failure of the foot attachment
149113 wrote:
I've since corrected my original statement about how the pocket was deformed. It was when the last screw gave way. It is clear now that this is exactly what happened. And your original comment was how did the top of the camera get damaged if it was facing up was not correct or that it hit a tree or was swung around on a tripod. Complete nonsense. And we'll agree to disagree on whether this is a poor design or who is accountable. Sony will ultimately decide that but as a pro member I expect better. The screws being used to attach the plate are micro screws which are never seen in use for something like a lens connection that is expected to sustain 5lbs + the weight of the camera. ...Show more →
no, your claim that "I think the crack in the pocket for the plate happened when it hit the ground" was flat-out wrong, because the lens didn't hit the ground on the foot side, as proven by the damage to the top of the camera, which was on the opposite side to the foot... you cast your own disparity on what you posted, don't blame me for that.
as for the design, the screw shaft diameter is big enough with grade 8 or similar, the problem was with using deep phillips head screws that cut into the diameter and weakened it, as shown by the break points that were on the head, not the shaft... so i think that you do have a legitimate gripe there, i'm just skeptical that they'll cover it.
i do appreciate you taking the time to post this, tho.
p.2 #15 · Sony 200-600mm failure of the foot attachment
So how did the repair go?
FYI, the Canon 100-400 II has a similar design. A plate is secured using 4 x 2mm screws.
The heads on the screws are smaller than typical too.
The 100-400 is significantly lighter than Sony 200-600 but most Canon bodies are heavier than Sony and a 1 Series is close to 3 times the weight of a Sony body so load would be similar or higher.
The 100-400 II has had a lot more 'field testing' and those screws have not been found to be a weak point. There were problems early on though and it seems the screws were not being tightened properly on the assembly line.
I was affected by this problem, the plate would loosen, I would tighten the screws, it would loosen again in increasingly shorter time. Lucky that I did not have a drop. The movement once screws loosened damaged the threads in the base of the tripod ring so the screws would loosen within 30 minutes of use.
Fair to say the size of the screws alarmed many owners but 6 years later without reported failures indicate that 4 x 2mm screws are sufficient. In the Sony they would definitely be metric screws and I really doubt they would use anything smaller 2mm as 2mm screws already cost more than 3mm screws.
p.2 #16 · Sony 200-600mm failure of the foot attachment
Choderboy wrote:
So how did the repair go?
FYI, the Canon 100-400 II has a similar design. A plate is secured using 4 x 2mm screws.
The heads on the screws are smaller than typical too.
The 100-400 is significantly lighter than Sony 200-600 but most Canon bodies are heavier than Sony and a 1 Series is close to 3 times the weight of a Sony body so load would be similar or higher.
The 100-400 II has had a lot more 'field testing' and those screws have not been found to be a weak point. There were problems early on though and it seems the screws were not being tightened properly on the assembly line.
I was affected by this problem, the plate would loosen, I would tighten the screws, it would loosen again in increasingly shorter time. Lucky that I did not have a drop. The movement once screws loosened damaged the threads in the base of the tripod ring so the screws would loosen within 30 minutes of use.
Fair to say the size of the screws alarmed many owners but 6 years later without reported failures indicate that 4 x 2mm screws are sufficient. In the Sony they would definitely be metric screws and I really doubt they would use anything smaller 2mm as 2mm screws already cost more than 3mm screws. ...Show more →
I have two of the Canon 100-400 II and the screws are a weak point, but Loctite keeps them from loosening. They appear smaller than 2 mm.
2 mm machine screws should be fine for a mid-sized lens like the 200-600 if properly implemented, but I'd prefer 3 mm. Big tele lenses tend to use 4 mm socket head screws.
p.2 #18 · Sony 200-600mm failure of the foot attachment
EB-1 wrote:
I have two of the Canon 100-400 II and the screws are a weak point, but Loctite keeps them from loosening. They appear smaller than 2 mm.
2 mm machine screws should be fine for a mid-sized lens like the 200-600 if properly implemented, but I'd prefer 3 mm. Big tele lenses tend to use 4 mm socket head screws.
EBH
EBH
I'm sure they are 2mm as I bought several sets of 2mm screws but none were suitable as the heads on the Canon screws are both small diameter and thin.(My replacements did fit the threads.) It was futile anyway, the threads in the tripod ring had been damaged by the repeated loosening, it was too late for loctite.
I paid AU $2550 for the lens (was cheapest price at the time) and Canon quoted $820 for a replacement ring, parts only (without the plate or screws). Usual time for repair at Canon AU is 8-10 weeks! My previous warranty claim took 12 weeks to report 'no fault found'. Long story short, I threatened legal action and they replaced the camera. I was not going to go through another 3 months without my lens without confidence they would actually fix it so I fixed it myself.
5 years later and no issues. For a week I had a unique 100-400:
p.2 #19 · Sony 200-600mm failure of the foot attachment
Slightly worrying story. I've only had my FE 200-600 for a few weeks and the first thing i did was unscrew the foot and put it in a cupboard together with the hood and am using it slingshot as Ryan Mense, with a BlackRapid strap. Have carried it like that on a few occasions and so far so good, heh, had to check the screws now (JIS?) and was unable to tighten them further, no play, but will try and remember to check it every now and then.
p.2 #20 · Sony 200-600mm failure of the foot attachment
Here’s another possibility. The screws might have been sub standard/counterfeit. Screws that were specified as to a particular metallurgy and construction might have been improperly sourced and so looked the same but were inadequate for the purpose. This is a common problem in aircraft parts.
