Announcement any day now 🤞🏼
Seems the major difference might be 24MP vs 47MP with maybe a few other tweaks to the current M10. Are you in? Or seriously considering?
I expected it to get the name M11, but anyway: this is the camera I was hoping for since a while. I am shooting with the Sony A7R with 36 MP FF, and can clearly see the difference between this sensor resolution and 24 MP. This was a main exclusion criteria for me to jump on any (not only B&W sensor based) existing digital Leica M. A high resolution M10 would be actually up my alley - but I am afraid the price will be a turn-down.
I guess that for some uses, it would be useful. But for me, 24 MP is more than enough, I can print my street pictures big enough and the rangefinder precise coupling with all the lenses is an issue already as well as the minimum shutter speed to get sharp images.
So I'll pass on 47mpix in a M or at least wait for other people to test it.
retrofocus wrote:
I expected it to get the name M11, but anyway: this is the camera I was hoping for since a while. I am shooting with the Sony A7R with 36 MP FF, and can clearly see the difference between this sensor resolution and 24 MP. This was a main exclusion criteria for me to jump on any (not only B&W sensor based) existing digital Leica M. A high resolution M10 would be actually up my alley - but I am afraid the price will be a turn-down.
I fully expected an M11 too, but worried Leica might change the excellent M10 form factor in an M11. So if we do get a higher resolution sensor in an M10 body, I'm happy 😎 Unlike the surprise lower price of the new SL2, I don't think Leica would be inclined to do the same with the M10-R. Probably right there with the M10-M price wise.
pmeheut wrote:
I guess that for some uses, it would be useful. But for me, 24 MP is more than enough, I can print my street pictures big enough and the rangefinder precise coupling with all the lenses is an issue already as well as the minimum shutter speed to get sharp images.
So I'll pass on 47mpix in a M or at least wait for other people to test it.
The Q2 IQ might be a good indication of what to expect with the M10-R's IQ minus IBIS of course.
It's been an interesting journey working with Sony 36, 42 and now 61MP FF sensors. No idea how much is too much when it comes to HW based RF technology and number of MPs on a Full frame sensor. I never thought 24Mps was a challenge on the M10, but then again I've never used the previous fewer MP Rangefinders to compare.
LBJ2 wrote:
The Q2 IQ might be a good indication of what to expect with the M10-R's IQ minus IBIS of course.
I have no doubt the IQ will be excellent. But I'm using film cameras (M & R), micro-43 and an M10. The M10 gives me the best IQ and is my favorite camera but the pictures shot with the "lesser" gear are still more than good enough.
I would prefer less noise above ISO 6400 and I dream of an hybrid viewfinder like the Fuji X100 and stabilization.
I do not need it and would be happy to use the M10 till the end of my life but these would make me consider upgrading more than some extra mega-pixels
LBJ2 wrote:
I never thought 24Mps was a challenge on the M10, but then again I've never used the previous fewer MP Rangefinders to compare.
The problem is not 24 Mpix but digital. Tolerances are tighter and it is easy to find a lens with front or back-focus. Of course, the is super-sensitive with 50mm or higher used wide-open and at a relatively short distance.
"01:02
Leica has always stood by the M-System,
01:05
adapting digitalization to the M-System rather than the other way round.
01:12
Traditionally we want our optical systems to meet four different requirements:
01:18
compactness, light intensity, imaging performance and robustness.
01:23
These four factors are combined in any M-Lens
01:28
and we have committed ourselves to always achieve maximum performance
01:33
with the minimal amount of lens elements.
01:37
Perfection in lenses
01:40
goes far beyond designing beautiful MTF curves or nicely corrected aberrations.
It means that a lot of effort has to be put into production
01:50
so that ultimately, this perfection reaches the customer."
"02:49
The M camera educates photographers,
02:52
similar to learning how to write with a fountain pen.
02:56
Using a fountain pen might not be easy at the beginning,
03:00
but once you’ve got it,
03:02
you will not want to write any other way.
03:04
In exactly the same way, the M might lead you to make mistakes at first,
03:09
forcing you to improve your photography,
03:11
just like the fountain pen corrects your handwriting.
03:14
You will see that in your images afterwards."
Arka wrote:
$8K? $7.5K? Leica stuff is expensive, but a 47MP may be the last M that anyone would ever need to buy.
Why would 47MP be the end of the history? If this is to take pictures, one can use any M, even a 50 years old film one. But if you want the top in image quality, you can always expect another M with an even better sensor, more DR, more high ISO...
flash wrote:
Not sure. On one hand the idea of a colour companion to my M10M is very interesting. I print BIG so the pixels are useful.
OTOH. I already have the SL2. I should do proper testing with the M lenses I have to see if that’ll work better. IBIS is a big deal at 47MP, for me.
Gordon
Very nice kit! M10M + SL2. You have your bases covered if you ask me and could very easily call the SL2 your colour companion to the M10M + AF, IBIS and EVF MF magnification. I don't know first hand but from what I read, other than M mount Rangefinder, M lenses perform best on the SL/SL2 than any other adapted mirrorless as specifically designed by Leica.
Arka wrote:
$8K? $7.5K? Leica stuff is expensive, but a 47MP may be the last M that anyone would ever need to buy.
On top of that price, I wonder if the new M10-R price might be affected by the USA/Germany tariff too 😳
Hard to believe 40-47MPs on a Leica Rangefinder until I read Peter Karbe's comment:
" Leica has always stood by the M-System adapting digitalization to the M-System rather than the other way round"
Having jumped on the Leica train with the M10 my first Leica, I was quickly amazed how much miniaturized high tech had been seamlessly integrated into the time-honored Leica Rangefinder. With this kind of thinking, I am of the opinion M technology has a very good future with this current Leica management team. I just hope they can figure out how to keep from pricing M out of the market completely at some point.
If Leica lowered the price of the SL2 vs. the SL and bumped the sensor to 47MP, it would seem the cost of the sensor would not be the reason for a 47MP M body to increase in price. I'm sure Leica can think of a host of reasons to not lower the price... Here's one: Leica is the only option if you want a digital rangefinder.
As for me, I'm pretty happy with 24MP, but could probably live with 47, too. That said, IBIS would be nice to have seeing how camera shake can pretty easily show up in my 24MP M images at marginal shutter speeds (i.e. one stop faster shutter than focal length).
rscheffler wrote:
I'm sure Leica can think of a host of reasons to not lower the price...
Here is another: when Leica has the good products, they sell them even if the price is high. And historically when Leica build excellent but cheaper alternatives (35mm/2.8 R, current Summarit, Leica RE and so), they do not sell so well.
As they are doing very well right now in a very difficult market, keeping their margin high and investing seems like a good strategy.
Especially in light of the dawn of computational photography and of a new generation who only used smartphones to take pictures. Leica said they are trying to position themselves in this new world.
Not sure if many know just how many different camera models Leica offers. From Instant, to 1" to APS-C to FF to MF. Does any other manufacturer currently offer APS-C, FF and MF and a watch? 😉 https://us.leica-camera.com/Photography/Camera-overview
Also their Fotos mobile app is currently one of the best photo apps among any of the major brands IMO. And like their competitors, Leica is gearing up/invested in a major AI offering too.
According to some rumors, we might be seeing some new M-Noct lenses coming too 🤷🏻♂️
M Nocti lenses make sense in that it's probably a high margin segment of the M lens line. Also, the 50/0.95 is starting to show its age. It's still a very good lens, but looking at the comparison images over on the Nikon board in the Noct-Nikkor 58/0.95 thread, the new Nikon is impressively sharp within the plane of focus. It gives the impression Leica has catching up to do, though by all accounts the 75/1.25 is excellent. IMO the 50 Lux ASPH could benefit from an update if Leica could keep its size while flattening the wavy plane of focus of the current model.
rscheffler wrote:
M Nocti lenses make sense in that it's probably a high margin segment of the M lens line. Also, the 50/0.95 is starting to show its age. It's still a very good lens, but looking at the comparison images over on the Nikon board in the Noct-Nikkor 58/0.95 thread, the new Nikon is impressively sharp within the plane of focus. It gives the impression Leica has catching up to do, though by all accounts the 75/1.25 is excellent. IMO the 50 Lux ASPH could benefit from an update if Leica could keep its size while flattening the wavy plane of focus of the current model....Show more →
First off that Nikon lens is 3 times the size - would you want that on an M?
And 2nd off (?) both lenses were shot on the Nikon. My Leica glass works way better on my M240 than Z7, so how is it surprising that the Nikon lens on the Nikon is sharper than the Leica lens on the Nikon?
I'm not interested in 47mp for the next M. I would be interested in a hybrid RF viewfinder similar to a Fuji Xpro3 and IBIS.
Those things would actually help me take 'better' pics, not more mp.
"01:02
Leica has always stood by the M-System,
01:05
adapting digitalization to the M-System rather than the other way round.
01:12
Traditionally we want our optical systems to meet four different requirements:
01:18
compactness, light intensity, imaging performance and robustness.
01:23
These four factors are combined in any M-Lens
01:28
and we have committed ourselves to always achieve maximum performance
01:33
with the minimal amount of lens elements.
01:37
Perfection in lenses
01:40
goes far beyond designing beautiful MTF curves or nicely corrected aberrations.
It means that a lot of effort has to be put into production
01:50
so that ultimately, this perfection reaches the customer."
"02:49
The M camera educates photographers,
02:52
similar to learning how to write with a fountain pen.
02:56
Using a fountain pen might not be easy at the beginning,
03:00
but once you’ve got it,
03:02
you will not want to write any other way.
03:04
In exactly the same way, the M might lead you to make mistakes at first,
03:09
forcing you to improve your photography,
03:11
just like the fountain pen corrects your handwriting.
03:14
You will see that in your images afterwards."
Here's one: Leica is the only option if you want a digital rangefinder.