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Archive 2020 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?

  
 
abdul10000
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p.1 #1 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


I remember when the A7 and A7R were introduced the image quality of Sony got allot of praise and many people switched over from Canon, but I have never seen a review that shows clearly this advantage.

In what way are Sony sensors so much better? Is it noise, dynamic range, color rendition, etc? I did my own test recently with A7R and 5D3 and used my self as a test model.

I sat in a large room framed from the opposite corner with a 24mm focal length on both cameras. This was done on purpose so that I appear small and to include the high dynamic range of the window. Everything including lighting, lens (16-35/f4), tripod, settings (f8,iso800,1/30th, raw), etc was the same except of course for the cameras.

Aside from the resolution difference and a small color difference the pictures turned out pretty identical in noise and dynamic range. I made sure to compare the pictures in photoshop at different zoom levels (for example 100% for both and 100% 5d3 & 76% a7r) to compensate for the size difference. There just wasn't a clear advantage to see.

Therefore, I have to ask what is the advantage that so many talk about and that I am missing?

Thx



Feb 10, 2020 at 06:11 AM
Holger
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p.1 #2 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


DR at base iso is a bit better (0.81 ev, use http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm). If you push shadows, you should see a difference as demonstrated at DPreview:
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr144_0=sony_a7riii&attr144_1=sony_a7riv&attr144_2=canon_eos5dmkiv&attr144_3=canon_eos5dsr&attr146_0=100_6&attr146_1=100_6&attr146_2=100_6&attr146_3=100_6&normalization=compare&widget=571&x=0.135101616&y=0.450515836

and vs. the direct iso:
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr134_0=sony_a7riii&attr134_1=sony_a7riii&attr134_2=canon_eos5dmkiv&attr134_3=canon_eos5dmkiv&attr136_0=2&attr136_1=7&attr136_2=2&attr136_3=7&normalization=compare&widget=570&x=0.06387766422667897&y=0.40578522811764706



Feb 10, 2020 at 06:25 AM
Bob_S
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p.1 #3 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


I don't think that statement is true or ever had been.
Sony's tend to be a better camera for me overall, however, for instance, my D800 had 'better' image quality than the 7R1. In my opinion it was a better camera overall, which is why I ditched the 7R1 and bought another D800 (the E).

My point is the conversation about IQ is significantly more nuanced than sensor specifications. I prefer Sony, but I can also achieve better results with my Nikon sometimes (rare situations).



Feb 10, 2020 at 06:32 AM
Holger
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p.1 #4 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


Bob_S wrote:
I don't think that statement is true or ever had been.
Sony's tend to be a better camera for me overall, however, for instance, my D800 had 'better' image quality than the 7R1. In my opinion it was a better camera overall, which is why I ditched the 7R1 and bought another D800 (the E).

My point is the conversation about IQ is significantly more nuanced than sensor specifications. I prefer Sony, but I can also achieve better results with my Nikon sometimes (rare situations).


The OP talks about Canon. Nikon is/was using Sony sensors. The D800 and A7r sensor where very likely the same
http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Nikon%20D800,Sony%20ILCE-7R
shows equal performance, too.
Preferring ergonomics etc. is a different thing.



Feb 10, 2020 at 06:38 AM
Bob_S
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p.1 #5 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


It was just an example as I haven't shot canon since the first A7.

It's not just ergonomics that help make a good camera (which helps make better images), functionality, burst speed etc.

The D800 had slightly better DR, I think only at base ISO, than the 7R1.
It also shot lossy compressed raw and never (iirc) reverted to 12 bit if you held it the wrong way.

iirc, the 7R1 had mount issues, shutter slap issues, inferior video etc. especially compared to the clean out of the D800 and whilst I didn't use it, the 5D2&3 had superior video also. Both canon and Nikon had superior colour. Nikon had (and still does) in camera raw processing which Sony continue to snub for some wired reason.

Anyways I'm a Sony shooter. I was just saying that imo the initial statement was incorrect.



Feb 10, 2020 at 06:54 AM
Sinasina
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p.1 #6 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


I think the image quality difference isn't very relevant. What it ultimately boils down to is DSLR vs. Mirrorless. (useful liveview in EVF vs. OVF) Sure Canon & Nikon have FF mirrorless bodies now, but that was not the case when the A7R came out.




Feb 10, 2020 at 07:52 AM
KarmaKramer
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p.1 #7 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


Seems to me that Sony’s Auto WB kind of sucks. Which I like to use because I got enough to juggle shooting weddings...“has ANYONE seen the Groom?!!”
My RAW images regardless of lens always tend to be too greenish yellow.
I recently used the Sony 85/1.4GM with A7RIII at a wedding,on Auto WB and on a cloudy day & those photos needed the most editing color wise I’ve ever seen. They all need tweaking.



Feb 10, 2020 at 08:14 AM
Beni
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p.1 #8 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


I personally went from a 5D3 to an A7r when the latter was released. The 5D3 had a specific problem of banding in the deep shadows at iso's up to 400 which the sony sensors did not suffer from. There is of course the resolution advantage. Trying to meaningfully compare noise between two different sensor resolutions requires a level of expertise which I do not have to the extent of making qualified statements about. I'm sure there are those here who can weigh in on this matter with more authority.

I would suggest however that unless looking at these two specific cameras, both of which have been superseded by newer technology from either manufacturer, a more useful test would be of the current models from each at a more comparable resolution. The 5Dsr vs the A7r4 is a test relevant to myself currently for example as we look at systems to invest in for a new repro studio requiring high resolution output. This is further complicated by rumours of a new 45 megapixel Canon mirrorless camera which will have the latest sensor technology rather than the rather dated sensor in the 5Dsr and may be a fairer comparison when it is released, at least to the A7r3.

Edited on Feb 10, 2020 at 08:15 AM · View previous versions



Feb 10, 2020 at 08:14 AM
rdcny
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p.1 #9 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


pushing the shadows in the A7R4 and A9 cameras is amazing - something I could never do with my 5Ds...which is when I left Canon


Feb 10, 2020 at 08:15 AM
scrappydog
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p.1 #10 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


abdul10000 wrote:
I remember when the A7 and A7R were introduced the image quality of Sony got allot of praise and many people switched over from Canon, but I have never seen a review that shows clearly this advantage.

In what way are Sony sensors so much better? Is it noise, dynamic range, color rendition, etc? I did my own test recently with A7R and 5D3 and used my self as a test model.

I sat in a large room framed from the opposite corner with a 24mm focal length on both cameras. This was done on purpose so that I appear
...Show more

Before buying the A7r2, I shot the 60D, 5D2, 5D3, and 7D2. The biggest differences for me were the results when shooting in poor conditions, lifting shadows, dynamic range, and accurate AF.

In great conditions, shots out of my Canon gear was often really nice but it was sometimes a mixed bag when shooting in poor conditions. Occasionally, it was a mixed bag in good conditions too. I recall shooting bird nests at a rookery in Florida on a clear, perfect (albeit hot) day with my Canon 5D3. All of my shots looked like garbage despite that they were perfectly exposed and the light was bright and clear. I still don't know why my camera went wonky, but it was not the first time. I don't have this problem with my Sony bodies. So far, I have shot the A6000, A6400, A7r2, A7r3, and A9. I will say that Sony's full frame camera image quality is much better IMO than the image quality from their crop sensors. We still have my old Fuji X100s. I strongly prefer the image quality out of that camera than out of my Sony crop bodies. That said, none of my Sony bodies end up with wonky results like my Canon bodies did.

The second issue is lifting shadows. All of my Canon bodies had banding and ugly noise in the shadows, especially the 60D and 5D2. Lifting them was often not worth it. When you lift shadows on Sony, they are generally very clean. Of the Sony bodies that I have shot, I think the A7r2 had the cleanest shadows.

The third issue is dynamic range. My Canon bodies often clipped the highlights, which was a problem for me because I often shot them in uneven light and I photographed bald eagles a lot (the crown and tail often clipped). My response to this was to underexpose, but introduced the ugly noise issue discussed above. I got tired dealing with this issue every time I shot. As noted, I bought an A7r2, and immediately I got 2 whole stops above the 18% grey clipping point when perfectly exposed. 2 stops! Needless to say, I clipped the highlights with that camera maybe 2-3 times, total. I now shoot the A9, which does not have the same latitude as the A7r2, but it's still very good and so much better than my Canon bodies.

The final issue is accurate AF. When I shot Canon, I thought my shots looked fine. Some better than others, as always, but generally fine. When I got my Sony bodies, I was getting pinpoint accuracy with my shots, which I was amazed by. After shooting Sony for 4-5 years, it's hard for me to look at my old Canon shots. My photos where often soft with slight front focus or back focus, despite my efforts to microadjust each of my lenses. I think Canon's mirrorless offerings will assist with this because they are focusing on the sensor, which is more precise.




Feb 10, 2020 at 09:14 AM
Beni
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p.1 #11 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


Eye focus is indeed a game changer for accurate focus throughout the aperture range. With my 5D3 I would do MA for wide open on my 50L but it had substantial focus shift when stopping down. Basically it was accurate at f1.2 or f2.8 but you couldn't have both.


Feb 10, 2020 at 09:54 AM
abdul10000
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p.1 #12 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


Holger wrote:
DR at base iso is a bit better (0.81 ev, use http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm).


Very interesting website. According to the data in the link below both cameras are very close at iso800, but the difference can be significant at 100. Incidentally the 5D3 best iso is 160. I always read comments about that but never tested it. I guess I should try it, but going back to the issue I will reattempt the test at best iso and compare the results.

That test however might not prove very useful for me because I am interested in cleaner pictures at higher iso. Nonetheless I am interested to know what does that 2.5 point of dynamic range difference at iso100 do in a real life scenario?

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20III,Sony%20ILCE-7R


Holger wrote:
If you push shadows, you should see a difference as demonstrated at DPreview:
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr144_0=sony_a7riii&attr144_1=sony_a7riv&attr144_2=canon_eos5dmkiv&attr144_3=canon_eos5dsr&attr146_0=100_6&attr146_1=100_6&attr146_2=100_6&attr146_3=100_6&normalization=compare&widget=571&x=0.135101616&y=0.450515836

and vs. the direct iso:
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr134_0=sony_a7riii&attr134_1=sony_a7riii&attr134_2=canon_eos5dmkiv&attr134_3=canon_eos5dmkiv&attr136_0=2&attr136_1=7&attr136_2=2&attr136_3=7&normalization=compare&widget=570&x=0.06387766422667897&y=0.40578522811764706


I have seen this before and the difference looks impressive but what is the purpose of pushing shadows by +6 ev or even +4? Come to think about it this actually might be the answer to the previous question.




Feb 10, 2020 at 11:20 AM
Holger
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p.1 #13 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


abdul10000 wrote:


Very interesting website. According to the data in the link below both cameras are very close at iso800, but the difference can be significant at 100. Incidentally the 5D3 best iso is 160. I always read comments about that but never tested it. I guess I should try it, but going back to the issue I will reattempt the test at best iso and compare the results.

That test however might not prove very useful for me because I am interested in cleaner pictures at higher iso. Nonetheless I am interested to know what does that 2.5 point of
...Show more

Generally it shows that you have more headroom to play with the Sony sensor. Consider using the 16-35/2.8iii from Canon. −4.07 EV vignetting at f2.8 according to lenstip.com. Pushing the shadows a modest 2ev in the center requires the outer parts to be pushed by 5-6ev already. Not something I would want to do, but it shows that larger shadow pushes can happen easily.

At higher iso the differences are smaller between the sensor. But even there shadow pushes are usual in post processing the image. I gladly take whatever I get.



Feb 10, 2020 at 11:32 AM
abdul10000
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p.1 #14 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


Holger wrote:
Generally it shows that you have more headroom to play with the Sony sensor. Consider using the 16-35/2.8iii from Canon. −4.07 EV vignetting at f2.8 according to lenstip.com. Pushing the shadows a modest 2ev in the center requires the outer parts to be pushed by 5-6ev already. Not something I would want to do, but it shows that larger shadow pushes can happen easily.

At higher iso the differences are smaller between the sensor. But even there shadow pushes are usual in post processing the image. I gladly take whatever I get.


So basically you are using the extra dynamic range at low iso to under expose the picture and then push the exposure up by several evs. I guess this works for preserving highlights or minimizing hand shake, but what I am interested in is reducing motion blur.

Most of my photography is interior spaces. In some pictures I place people in the space and take the picture with the available light at f11. Obviously this leaves very little room for wiggle. At iso 800 I often find I am shooting at 1/15th but since the camera is mounted on a tripod I can have few decent shots with minimal motion blue if the models stay still.

That is, however, counter productive as the best and most natural expressions and poses usually come when people are engaging in activities or interacting. I can always reduce the aperture to f8 and refocus and then add the layer with the model in post, but even that barley cuts it in many cases.

Based on your suggestion I can use a Sony camera and drop the iso to 100 and set shutter to under expose by 5 ev, is that right? That would buy me 2 extra evs (5 ev - 3 ev for dropping from iso 800).

Its interesting to see if this works because 2 extra ev means the difference between 1/15th and 1/60th shutter speed, which would make a big difference.



Feb 10, 2020 at 12:41 PM
Alanu
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p.1 #15 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


KarmaKramer wrote:
Seems to me that Sony’s Auto WB kind of sucks. Which I like to use because I got enough to juggle shooting weddings...“has ANYONE seen the Groom?!!”
My RAW images regardless of lens always tend to be too greenish yellow.
I recently used the Sony 85/1.4GM with A7RIII at a wedding,on Auto WB and on a cloudy day & those photos needed the most editing color wise I’ve ever seen. They all need tweaking.


In many cases I've found Fuji to have very good AWB. I no longer use Fuji but I am also a long time Canon user. I find Canon to be better than Sony. In many cases I've found some lighting situations a nightmare using my Sony gear.

When I first started to use Sony I was quite shocked in the additional time it takes to post process. I'm much better at Sony files now but I still continue to post process my Canon files much faster and efficiently.



Feb 10, 2020 at 12:41 PM
KarmaKramer
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p.1 #16 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


The editing is a buzzkill. I too find Sony images tend to need a lot of work. They clean up nice, just wish they came out looking better.
I shoot RAW less and less now and nobody notices.

Alanu wrote:
In many cases I've found Fuji to have very good AWB. I no longer use Fuji but I am also a long time Canon user. I find Canon to be better than Sony. In many cases I've found some lighting situations a nightmare using my Sony gear.

When I first started to use Sony I was quite shocked in the additional time it takes to post process. I'm much better at Sony files now but I still continue to post process my Canon files much faster and efficiently.




Feb 10, 2020 at 01:24 PM
SoundHound
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p.1 #17 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


I moving into Sony for the A9. Upon issue it was a game changer for me. SILENT, 20fps, NO micro AF error allowed the use of superspeed lenses with reliable focus, looking directly at thecsenwir I could see exposure directly-no need for chimping. Smaller/lighter/cheaper too.


Feb 11, 2020 at 03:39 AM
abdul10000
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p.1 #18 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


I did a test using the A7R with the under exposure method discussed in this topic and exposed one picture at iso100 and the other at iso800. All other setting were the same including the aperture and shutter speed:

100% crop of iso100 vs iso800 @ same shutter and aperture
https://i.postimg.cc/Hs032GRr/100vs800.jpg

after pushing the iso100 exposure in ACR by +3ev the pictures look similar
https://i.postimg.cc/cCnkZrFh/100-3vs800.jpg

next I pushed iso100 by +4ev and iso800 by +1ev and the noise and image quality held better in iso800
https://i.postimg.cc/QN2nmJMy/100-4vs800-1.jpg

increasing +1ev on both pictures made the difference more dramatic
https://i.postimg.cc/VNvRmJ6t/100-5vs800-2.jpg

I see no advantage in the method of under exposing and then pushing ev in post for shadows and noise, but I still was wondering why people were using it and since A7R has a much higher dynamic range at iso100 I tried highlight recovery in ACR by pulling down the highlights slider to -100.

This is the same picture but a 100% crop of another area of the picture where there is a window. Both iso100+3ev and iso800+0ev look identical

https://i.postimg.cc/6QbMvdSz/100-3vs800-0-highlights.jpg

As soon as I apply highlight recovery the difference becomes clear, iso100+3 has allot more highlight details
https://i.postimg.cc/mZHmP1SN/100-3vs800-100-highlights.jpg

I have not tested the canon in the same way yet because of time constraints but I can understand why people are using this method. When shooting single exposures it can be a real saver.

For me however, it does not provide much because I photograph all spaces with bracketing and then take the model picture in a single exposure and add it in post. There isn't a case where I needed highlight recovery for a model, only less noise to crank up the iso and capture the models motion free.



Feb 11, 2020 at 05:01 AM
psharvic
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p.1 #19 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


If you're shooting static subjects, bracketing, compositing in PS, etc. I think the camera doesn't make much difference, purely a matter of preference.


Feb 11, 2020 at 08:53 AM
milkod2001
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p.1 #20 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


abdul10000 wrote:
I remember when the A7 and A7R were introduced the image quality of Sony got allot of praise and many people switched over from Canon, but I have never seen a review that shows clearly this advantage.

In what way are Sony sensors so much better? Is it noise, dynamic range, color rendition, etc? I did my own test recently with A7R and 5D3 and used my self as a test model.

I sat in a large room framed from the opposite corner with a 24mm focal length on both cameras. This was done on purpose so that I appear
...Show more

You would need to get some more recent models from Sony to see real difference. Sony's sweat spot for best IQ is currently with A7R3 or even R2 which uses pretty much the same sensor. I use to own Canon 5D2 which uses pretty much the same sensor as 5D3 and difference compared to A7R3 is day and night. That only applies on ISO 4000 or above. At base ISO 100 you would very likely never see difference. Real difference comes at High ISO and of course from glass you have used when you check on final images.

Sony also has better DR which can come handy in post but honestly who needs to push files 4-5 stops really needs to learn about photography a bit more. Canon files are also very good.

What you could be missing is not final IQ but ability to get more keepers due much better AF and eye AF in newer cameras like A7III or even Canon or Nikon mirrorless.




Feb 11, 2020 at 09:20 AM
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