I have a D810 and a D500. I dislike going back and forth between a FX viewfinder and a DX viewfinder. I am thinking of replacing the D500 with a D850. (Keeping the D810 as a backup.)
For BIF, using the 500PF, how does the D850 compare to the D500?
(D500 max is 10fps DX; D850 max is 9fps FX with MB-D18 using EN-EL18b.)
I can live with one less fps. Larger file sizes is a non-issue for me.
I consider the D500 a "good light" body only. The IQ goes all to hell as the ISO goes up. I was going to sell it and get a Z6, but changed my mind. (another story)
I think when the AF is pushed, for me, and there's lots of opinions otherwise, but when pushed such as barnies in flight, my D4s and D500 comes out about the same, with the D850 somewhat behind. Also, my D4s will AF with my 500 f4VR G with 1.7TC on fast flying ducks about equal to my D850 with same lens with no TC.
fps difference I do not notice any difference from D500 to D850, and I have no issue with buffer in either for the shorter burst I fire off. I don't shoot 9 or 10 fps from the time a bird comes over one horizon until it disappears over the oppose one though.
I have no issue going from Fx to Dx, D850 to D500, but I will say that if you're focus length limited, I'd keep the D500. I prefer to fill the frame as much as possible.
I shoot my D850 in bursts so I rarely have a buffer issue. If you hold it down for more than about 5-6 seconds, the frame rate will slow dramatically. I would say the AF on my D500 is slightly better than my D850's. As T-O says, the D500 IQ deteriorates fast as the ISO climbs, the D850 not as much. My 600 E FL almost lives with a 1.4 tc so if there is enough light, I prefer the D500. While on paper the 1 fps difference doesn't seem like much there are times with the D850 that I wished for that extra frame somewhere in the sequence. All that said, if I had to only keep one, it would be the D850.
D850 and D500 have precisely the same AF module in them. They should be basically identical for all intents and purposes. And both will function better than a D4s. I shoot with XD cards, and I am rarely buffer-limited. Only thing that would hold me back is if you're reach-limited often.
I prefer the D850. I actually sold my D500 to get a Z6.
But, and it's a big but, I am using a 500mm f/4G with a TC-14III almost always added for bird photography.
If you use the 500mm PF you are starting at f/5.6 so adding a TC will be challenging for the camera AF system.
By keeping the D500 you have a 750mm reach with a f/5.6 aperture.
On the other hand the D810 or D850 offer the cropping option. BIF are erratic so extra space around is often very useful in post processing.
There is no doubting that the D500 is a formidable BIF camera both in terms of fps and AF tracking ability. To garner the extra fps on the D850 you have to add the grip and get the EN-EL18b battery plus charging set up. It is a formidable set up for chasing BIF etc. I have the grip and the battery and have used it a number of times, it comes in handy when I shoot Peregrine Falcons! Handholding can get a bit heavy with my 400 f2.8E FL VR attached, but is a much lighter and easier to wield rig with the 500 f5.6 pf.
D850 gripped + 500 f5.6pf, 1/3200s f/5.6 at 500.0mm iso640
If you have to crop the D850 to D500 image size, I doubt you would see much difference in overall IQ. The D850 is better but only really if you don't have to crop too much.
I've had both ended up keeping and adding another D850. Seduced by the D850 image quality advantage (from 20-46 megapixel), I like to print A1 size easily handled by the D850 files.
As for AF I think you need to look at your lenses, I must admit I didn't like my 200-500 on the D850 compared to the D500, so that went. Lucky to have a 300mm F/2.8 and a 500mm F/4E which make for near instant focus on the D850.
I haven’t found a significant difference between AF of D850 and D500. I basically stopped using D500 as I liked the focal length versatility of the D850 in that if I had the 500PF on D850 I had a true 500FOV when subjects were closer and almost the same pixel reach of the D500 when needed. I also liked that even for subjects that wouldn’t need greater than DX FOV, on the D850 I could use the center AF point to focus with and use the extra FOV for composition. With the D500 I’d need to use a worse performing outer AF point to achieve this. This especially makes a difference with f/8 combos like 500PF/1.4TC.
The buffer is smaller but not often a problem. I do use 12-bit on D850 vs 14-bit on D500 to get a deeper buffer. Both Lossless Compressed.
Downsides to D850 are the size and weight of the body/grip to achieve 9FPS. Recently I’ve gone back to D500 just to minimize size/weight and then bought a Z50 to take that even further.
arbitrage wrote:
I haven’t found a significant difference between AF of D850 and D500. I basically stopped using D500 as I liked the focal length versatility of the D850 in that if I had the 500PF on D850 I had a true 500FOV when subjects were closer and almost the same pixel reach of the D500 when needed. I also liked that even for subjects that wouldn’t need greater than DX FOV, on the D850 I could use the center AF point to focus with and use the extra FOV for composition. With the D500 I’d need to use a worse performing outer AF point to achieve this. This especially makes a difference with f/8 combos like 500PF/1.4TC.
The buffer is smaller but not often a problem. I do use 12-bit on D850 vs 14-bit on D500 to get a deeper buffer. Both Lossless Compressed.
Downsides to D850 are the size and weight of the body/grip to achieve 9FPS. Recently I’ve gone back to D500 just to minimize size/weight and then bought a Z50 to take that even further. ...Show more →
Just found your fine shots of BIF with the 500 + Z50. How difficult was it to use the Z50 for BIF?
Shooting BIF with the D850, there have been times when the buffer maxes out on the D850. I don't believe this has ever happened to me with the D500. Given the somewhat unpredictable nature of flight patterns for many birds, there have been more than a few times when I have literally cursed having the D850 (due to its buffer) on one of my birding lenses. Don't get me wrong though, if I could only have one of these camera bodies, it would be the D850. For whatever it is worth, after having used the D850 and D500 for BIF, I would never go back to the D810 for BIF, due to the great AF performance on the D850 and D500. Good luck with your decisions!
groob wrote:
D850 and D500 have precisely the same AF module in them. They should be basically identical for all intents and purposes. And both will function better than a D4s. I shoot with XD cards, and I am rarely buffer-limited. Only thing that would hold me back is if you're reach-limited often.
That was said about the D4 / D800 and subsequent D4s / D810. Same AF module so AF must be the same. It's the same now with D5 / D850. The pro bodies always AF'ed better, whether it was different algorithms, different AF processing power, or something else.
Same may be true D850 / D500. Just because they have the same AF module, assuming they do, does not mean they AF the same. Doesn't mean they don't but I have always found the D500 better than the D850, but I have noticed others have a different opinion. Regardless, for me, I find D500 better. But I wouldn't overall chose a D500 over a D850.
cpe1991 wrote:
Just found your fine shots of BIF with the 500 + Z50. How difficult was it to use the Z50 for BIF?
It isn’t great. I would not go out looking for BIF opportunities with the Z50. I try BIF with it if I’m out with it only. If you saw the recent woodpecker in flight shot I actually had two separate flight passes with that bird and that is the only in focus shot I got out of it. I know that with D500 or A9 I’d have had a whole bunch of keepers out of those two passes against blue sky.
kwilliam8 wrote:
For whatever it is worth, after having used the D850 and D500 for BIF, I would never go back to the D810 for BIF, due to the great AF performance on the D850 and D500.
Agreed. I started serious BIF after I got my 500PF. 500PF+D810. I immediately realized I had a problem.
T-O Shooter wrote:
Same may be true D850 / D500. Just because they have the same AF module, assuming they do, does not mean they AF the same. Doesn't mean they don't but I have always found the D500 better than the D850, but I have noticed others have a different opinion. Regardless, for me, I find D500 better. But I wouldn't overall chose a D500 over a D850.
There are differences because of the FX/DX difference alone. Beyond that, the D850 actually AF'd a little better than the D500 when it first came out. I had a second batch D850 and it was marginally better than the D500 at that time. Nikon issued a firmware upgrade for the D850 in the fall of 2018 to address an issue where the AF would lock up. This occurred randomly and it seemed to bite me at the worst possible times. After that "fix" the D850 af seemed to slow a little to the point where I now think the D500 has a slight edge instead of the other way around. Whether this is a real difference or just due to the FX/DX difference is hard to tell. It's near impossible to get a bird to fly a test pattern several times to check gear. I've asked, but they have yet to oblige.
trenchmonkey wrote:
Yc, odd man out here...still use my D810 for BIF...
w/ Sigma's 60-600 Sport. D500's still my fave, however.
I had to look up "Yc"... Well, you could get an image like that with a pinhole camera! Just because I wouldn't go back to a D810 doesn't mean it isn't any good. I'm just a lazy photographer that relies on the latest tech to assist me with getting things properly exposed and in focus!
WarrenD wrote:
There are differences because of the FX/DX difference alone. Beyond that, the D850 actually AF'd a little better than the D500 when it first came out. I had a second batch D850 and it was marginally better than the D500 at that time. Nikon issued a firmware upgrade for the D850 in the fall of 2018 to address an issue where the AF would lock up. This occurred randomly and it seemed to bite me at the worst possible times. After that "fix" the D850 af seemed to slow a little to the point where I now think the D500 has a slight edge instead of the other way around. Whether this is a real difference or just due to the FX/DX difference is hard to tell. It's near impossible to get a bird to fly a test pattern several times to check gear. I've asked, but they have yet to oblige....Show more →
I'm glad somebody else noticed this , what was the D850 FW you was using with fastest AF ? after I updated mine to latest FW1.10 I definitely noticed I AF wasn't as quick . I've now installed earlier FW
multibit wrote:
I'm glad somebody else noticed this , what was the D850 FW you was using with fastest AF ? after I updated mine to latest FW1.10 I definitely noticed I AF wasn't as quick . I've now installed earlier FW
I don't know the number, it was the original firmware. I'm not sure if there was an earlier upgrade before the one that slowed the AF. I'm also glad someone else noticed this, I've mentioned it to several others, including some respected Nikon folks and was told it was me.
