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Archive 2019 · Canon 90D results

  
 
Andrew J
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p.17 #1 · Canon 90D results


rscheffler wrote:
How did you keep it so impressively steady?


This was on an older Gitzo and Wimberley gimbal vI. I have a rail to steady it but that was in the van. 120 fps does tend to hide shake I noticed from using my 1DxII. Getting the 120 mode in this 90d is actually shocking to me. There is also an in camera video stabilizer mode I have not tried.



Oct 20, 2019 at 11:22 AM
RustyBug
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p.17 #2 · Canon 90D results


Ran across this from Tony N. (I know) as the next video in queue (after watching the eagle), but the point he was making was what he doesn't like about Sony's new 60MP (which in APS-C mode is still less than the 90D). Among them (he actually was praising Canon's build while decrying Sony's) was the issue of dust bunnies in MILC vs. DSLR.

A little OT, but sometimes the results aren't about what you get, but sometimes what you DON'T get.

Tony is Tony, of course, but I found it interesting to hear some left-handed complements to the Canon & DSLR's.




Oct 20, 2019 at 11:30 AM
rbeasley
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p.17 #3 · Canon 90D results


Andrew J wrote:
This was on an older Gitzo and Wimberley gimbal vI. I have a rail to steady it but that was in the van. 120 fps does tend to hide shake I noticed from using my 1DxII. Getting the 120 mode in this 90d is actually shocking to me. There is also an in camera video stabilizer mode I have not tried.


Nice gave a like and subscribed




Oct 20, 2019 at 11:35 AM
alundeb
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p.17 #4 · Canon 90D results


RustyBug wrote:
Ran across this from Tony N. (I know) as the next video in queue (after watching the eagle), but the point he was making was what he doesn't like about Sony's new 60MP (which in APS-C mode is still less than the 90D). Among them (he actually was praising Canon's build while decrying Sony's) was the issue of dust bunnies in MILC vs. DSLR.

A little OT, but sometimes the results aren't about what you get, but sometimes what you DON'T get.

Tony is Tony, of course, but I found it interesting to hear some left-handed complements to the Canon & DSLR's.



The dust problem sounded serious. Guaranteed to have dust on your sensor just after one day shooting. Wow. Would be my top 1 hate if I bought it, as I shoot much stopped down where dust is very visible. Good to hear that the EOS R is much better.



Oct 20, 2019 at 01:19 PM
bklim
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p.17 #5 · Canon 90D results





Oct 22, 2019 at 03:24 AM
arbitrage
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p.17 #6 · Canon 90D results


I hadn't seen Glenn post anything for ages but he has picked up and given some thoughts on the 90D FWIW from a very accomplished bird photographer.

http://www.glennbartley.com/Canon90DSetupReviewandSettings.html




Oct 22, 2019 at 01:00 PM
Littlefield
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p.17 #7 · Canon 90D results


This is the one that caught my eye...... as it seems contradictory to other reviews and what has been posted here and in other forums.

“l would love to say that the ISO performance of this camera is better than the 7D II. But it is not. In fact it seems to be about a stop worse than the 7D II. I wouldn’t want to have to rely on this body in the rainforest that is for sure. But in normal shooting conditions of ISO 800 and lower the files look good and can certainly be processed to remove most of the noise.”

Don



Oct 22, 2019 at 01:26 PM
technic
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p.17 #8 · Canon 90D results


Littlefield wrote:
This is the one that caught my eye...... as it seems contradictory to other reviews and what has been posted here and in other forums.

“l would love to say that the ISO performance of this camera is better than the 7D II. But it is not. In fact it seems to be about a stop worse than the 7D II. I wouldn’t want to have to rely on this body in the rainforest that is for sure. But in normal shooting conditions of ISO 800 and lower the files look good and can certainly be processed to remove most of
...Show more

Sounds like this too is very similar to 80D, like I expected; give it a few months and 90% of the outrageous "90D is vastly better" claims will have been proven wrong. No real AF improvement (still sluggish and not very reliable, according to most reliable review sites), no real High ISO improvement (especially at faster shutter speed?). Only more pixels (visible in ideal conditions only), higher framerate (but the buffer is still relatively small) and some extra functions/features. With about the same initial price as 80D nothing to complain, but the suggestion that Canon merged 7D2 and 80D in the 90D is nothing more than wishful thinking.



Oct 22, 2019 at 02:22 PM
lighthound
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p.17 #9 · Canon 90D results


Just for the hell of it I grabbed his ISO 6400 images and opened them up in PS to look at them side by side.
I did drop the exposure 1/2 stop on the 90D flower image because he over exposed it relative to the 7DII shot. I tried going the other way by increasing the 7DII flower image by 1/2 stop but it made it look even worse than it already does.
The feather images I did nothing as they seem close enough to me.

He said the 90D is a full stop worse than the 7DII? These are his sample images.
Someone help me out, what am I missing here? Both of the 90D images look better than the 7DII to me.












Oct 22, 2019 at 02:50 PM
rscheffler
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p.17 #10 · Canon 90D results


Somewhere on the Lensrentals site is (to paraphrase) Roger's law of reality vs internet hype/expectations...

I used it Sunday at an NFL football game. General impression was it was nowhere near 1DXI/II level performance, which of course wasn't a surprise. It's been a couple years since I tried the 7DII, also at a couple football games, so can't really give a direct comparison, but the 90D seemed closer to my experience with the 7DII.

Unfortunately the environment of the game presented some suboptimal conditions. Namely, it was warmer than expected for this time of year, sunny, and the playing surface was artificial 'Field Turf' which in these conditions became a huge heat sink and caused immense problems with atmospheric distortion when wanting/hoping to shoot long - a primary interest of mine for this camera, as a form of 'digital' teleconverter thanks to the APS-C crop and high pixel density (vs. the FF 1DXII).

I turned off as many settings as I could find that might potentially throttle frame rate, such as any and all in-camera image processing for distortion, CA, NR, DLO, diffraction, etc., etc. AF parameters were tuned to be more responsive to quick changes, though I did leave the frame rate/focus priority in the middle, rather than favoring frame rate (since it wouldn't do me much good to potentially have a lot of sub-optimally focused images.

The camera still wouldn't hit 10fps. I'd guess it was somewhere more around 7-8 and sometimes dropped lower, which when shooting 14 with the 1DXII, felt glacial. AF consistency also wasn't impressive. This was partly due to the heat coming off the field, which also negatively affected the 1DXII, but was amplified at ~30MP, where many image lacked critical focus/sharpness. It's not to say the camera couldn't nail focus, because from casual shooting of non-action situations on other days, it certainly could. I quickly gave up trying to use it for primary action and used it instead as the second camera for near-action situations, such as long-bomb passes that land near me (didn't happen in this game), as well as end zone action. In this use case, I frequently end up raising the camera to shoot with only a split second to spare while roughly lining up the composition. I decided to use one of the zone AF options (where it splits the AF area into three zones) so perfect AF point placement on the subject wouldn't be critical. But even here I was sometimes stymied because the AF zone would also include the field in the foreground and the camera sometimes instead focused there. After noticing this I also tried the 9-point AF box that can be moved around. In one instance, with the subject well framed and the AF zone covering the intended subject, it jumped to the background for a number of frames. I also didn't have any UHS-II cards available and buffer limitations were definitely a problem.

So, after only one game with it, it hasn't exactly impressed me for action photography applications. I likely need to use it a bit more, but doubt it will really fill the role I was hoping it might.

That said, for less hectic use, I've enjoyed it. It feels good in the hand, is fun to use, sufficiently responsive and being able to crop in on ~30MP has already come in handy for a specific shoot. BTW, that one was shot at ISO 2000 and some of the CR3s had to be pushed a bit, and still looked good, IMO. So maybe high ISO performance isn't quite up there with FF, but it's not that far off either. If I didn't want to use it for sports, I'd generally be happy with it, though as I mentioned before, I think I'd instead get the M6II, which I might, depending on how good the Black Friday/Boxing Day sales are...



Oct 22, 2019 at 02:57 PM
arbitrage
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p.17 #11 · Canon 90D results


lighthound wrote:
Just for the hell of it I grabbed his ISO 6400 images and opened them up in PS to look at them side by side.
I did drop the exposure 1/2 stop on the 90D flower image because he over exposed it relative to the 7DII shot. I tried going the other way by increasing the 7DII flower image by 1/2 stop but it made it look even worse than it already does.
The feather images I did nothing as they seem close enough to me.

He said the 90D is a full stop worse than the 7DII? These are his sample images.
...Show more

I only opened them in my browser and when they were first scaled to fit the browser window things looked fairly similar. But when I hit the magnify glass and looked at 100% then you see the 90D noise. So I guess it depends on final output size and downsampling. But if you are using the extra pixels to reach further than noise will be worse. If you are after the same frame then they probably equal out of 90D might be better.

In your screenshot it looks like you have them at equal magnification and not 1:1...if you view them at 1:1 is it any different?



Oct 22, 2019 at 03:12 PM
lighthound
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p.17 #12 · Canon 90D results


arbitrage wrote:
I only opened them in my browser and when they were first scaled to fit the browser window things looked fairly similar. But when I hit the magnify glass and looked at 100% then you see the 90D noise. So I guess it depends on final output size and downsampling. But if you are using the extra pixels to reach further than noise will be worse. If you are after the same frame then they probably equal out of 90D might be better.

In your screenshot it looks like you have them at equal magnification and not 1:1...if you view them
...Show more

Do those images above look "fairly similar" to you?
And yes, I wanted to see an apples to apples comparison between them so I viewed them at the same size. I imagine anytime you compare 1:1 views between a 20mp and a 32.5 mp images you will see a difference due to the differences in scale. That would be pretty miraculous if we didn't.



Oct 22, 2019 at 03:44 PM
arbitrage
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p.17 #13 · Canon 90D results


lighthound wrote:
Do those images above look "fairly similar" to you?
And yes, I wanted to see an apples to apples comparison between them so I viewed them at the same size. I imagine anytime you compare 1:1 views between a 20mp and a 32.5 mp images you will see a difference due to the differences in scale. That would be pretty miraculous if we didn't.


When I buy into a higher MP camera I am after more pixels per duck. So the 1:1 view does matter to me. That is all I'm saying. Therefore, I do want to evaluate them at 1:1. But as I said the 90D is likely better downsized. In my browser at the magnification and pixels of my work monitor they look similar because they are being considerably downsized to fit. I didn't make any comment about how they looked in your screenshot. In your screenshot the 90D is the winner and is why I said the 90D would be better at certain downscaled output sizes.

Also I only looked at 3200 images. Just checked the 6400 ones. It is a bit hard to compare with the brightness differences but I'm not at home with any LR/PS to properly compare. There is certainly a difference to the quality of the noise and it looks like the 90D is much more uniform and probably that will be easier to run NR on. The 7D2 has more random quality with some ugly speckles.



Oct 22, 2019 at 04:13 PM
lighthound
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p.17 #14 · Canon 90D results


arbitrage wrote:
When I buy into a higher MP camera I am after more pixels per duck. So the 1:1 view does matter to me. That is all I'm saying. Therefore, I do want to evaluate them at 1:1. But as I said the 90D is likely better downsized. In my browser at the magnification and pixels of my work monitor they look similar because they are being considerably downsized to fit. I didn't make any comment about how they looked in your screenshot. In your screenshot the 90D is the winner and is why I said the 90D would be better
...Show more

Hey now, I thought you always filled your frame when you shoot your birds.

Joking aside, I hear what you're saying and I do hope you take a serious look at those examples he posted. I'm seeing the same thing as you, the 7DII noise looks random and blotchy where as the 90D is small and uniform which matches what I've been seeing on my own 90D files. Also, when you take a closer look, take note of the slight improvement in the details on the 90D files, particularly on the feather images as they seem to be exposed closest to each other. I'm not seeing a big difference but the 90D seems to get the nod as long as we're splitting hairs.

I honestly don't see how he can say the 7DII is better at high ISO, let alone 1 1/3 stop better, when you look at his examples.

As we can already see in this thread since you posted this guys video, that's exactly the kind of false reports that people seem to be hungry to jump on without actually looking into it further. The beginning of the fake news that will spread through the internet like wet dog shit on a rainy day.



Oct 22, 2019 at 06:01 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.17 #15 · Canon 90D results


Littlefield wrote:
This is the one that caught my eye...... as it seems contradictory to other reviews and what has been posted here and in other forums.

“l would love to say that the ISO performance of this camera is better than the 7D II. But it is not. In fact it seems to be about a stop worse than the 7D II. I wouldn’t want to have to rely on this body in the rainforest that is for sure. But in normal shooting conditions of ISO 800 and lower the files look good and can certainly be processed to remove most of
...Show more

But he does say "I think most will be hard pressed to find a big difference between the autofocus in this camera and the 5 or 7D series." And that it has equivalent 10 FPS. So something to contradict everyone.



Oct 22, 2019 at 07:53 PM
Andrew J
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p.17 #16 · Canon 90D results


90d 120 fps mode
300 meter shot
800mm + 2x vII TC + 90d
Straight out of camera no editing.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/ajvogtman/BU0yd1



Oct 27, 2019 at 10:06 AM
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