artsupreme wrote:
Just when I thought I could believe you, Pixel Perfect, and the other guys who claimed 16fps wasn't possible see below. And I'm happy to hear B&H confirm my first post that started this whole thread might be coming a reality. I guess 16fps is possible, but now we wait to see what the MP count is...this camera is looking to be a screamer.
Read what I said above, I never said is is impossible where did you see that? I said it is not useful because of the mirror blackout. the theoretical limit is 1/ backlit time = 22 fps but you won't be able to see anything in the finder
mogul wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised that the III will use AF like in the Sony 99II which uses an off site module with 79 points and PDAF on sensor to effectively gain hundreds of points of AF & where they over lap become cross points. (run on sentence, sorry)
Was that possible without the semi-translucent mirror? Because I don't think this camera will have a mirror like the 99II.
The spec is vague and doesn't provide anything useful/definitive
"When using the optical viewfinder the camera will use a new autofocus sensor, with approximately 28 times the resolution in the center of the EOS-1D X Mark II. "
what does that mean? Does it have 28 times more AF sensors 28 x 61 = 1708 almost impossible or they keep the numbers of the sensors the same but put more pixels on each sensors (hardly helps with anything)
Too bad Chuck is no longer with us to help remove the marketing cloud from the specs and give us the reality
BTW my 1DXII could shoot 250+ RAW's with SanDisk Extreme Pro CF card, I never hit the buffer.
I hope this is true:
"The camera’s new autofocus algorithm will improve stability and tracking when using both the Optical Viewfinder and in Live View shooting mode"
speedmaster20d wrote:
Read what said above, I never said is is impossible where did you see that? I said it is not useful because go the blackout.
I don't believe Canon is going to release a flagship camera that is not useful at 16fps....yes you never said it wasn't possible but shooting it down and saying "the only way to go to those high frame rates and still be useful is with the mirror up in LV" is saying it's not going to work and not going to happen IMO.
Just goes to show you not even the most knowledgeable FM'ers can predict Canon engineering. Never say never, and rumors are rumors until the specs are released.
artsupreme wrote:
I don't believe Canon is going to release a flagship camera that is not useful at 16fps....yes you never said it wasn't possible but shooting it down and saying "the only way to go to those high frame rates and still be useful is with the mirror up in LV" is saying it's not going to work and not going to happen IMO.
Just goes to show you not even the most knowledgeable FM'ers can predict Canon engineering. Never say never, and rumors are rumors until the specs are released.
looks like you're making stuff up again. I never said it is not going to happen I said I don't think it is useful in my opinion. You clearly don't understand the blackout math.
this is what I said above
"I don't think 16 fps will be useful, the mirror blackout time in DSLR's is a given, typically 45-50 msec on the pro models. At 16 fps the total blackout time is 16 x 50 msec = 800 msec in each second of burst. which means when tracking a subject you and the camera are effectively blind almost 80% of the time! It will just lead to more missed shots or redundant frames. When I had a 1DXII I actually dialed it back to 12 fps...seemed to be enough to capture the "peak of action" moment "
mogul wrote:
I don't know but why else have pdaf on sensor and not just stick to dual on all sites.
Because the mirror is either up or down, when the mirror is down no light goes to image sensor so I cannot be used for AF. When the mirror is up no light goes to the AF sensor so it cannot be used. the only way to get light to both is using a translucent mirror which is a failed concept tried by Sony and discontinued.
speedmaster20d wrote:
looks like you're making stuff up again. I never said it is not going to happen I said I don't think it is useful in my opinion. You clearly don't understand the blackout math.
We can agree to disagree on what you meant by this...
"the only way to go to those high frame rates and still be useful is with the mirror up in LV or in mirror-less cameras"
I guess it's possible Canon will release a dud 1DXIII that's not useful at 16fps but given that's the main purpose of this camera (speed) I have confidence it will be useful at 16fps. It's the whole reason most will be buying this camera. I don't think they want another 1DmkIII dilemma on their hands.
Do you believe Canon would release a pro body that's not useful at it's max specification and intended purpose? I guess so, but nothing personal so like I said, we can agree to disagree.
artsupreme wrote:
We can agree to disagree on what you meant by this...
"the only way to go to those high frame rates and still be useful is with the mirror up in LV or in mirror-less cameras"
I guess it's possible Canon will release a dud 1DXIII that's not useful at 16fps but given that's the main purpose of this camera (speed) I have confidence it will be useful at 16fps. It's the whole reason most will be buying this camera. I don't think they want another 1DmkIII dilemma on their hands.
Do you believe Canon would release a pro body that's not useful at it's max specification and intended purpose? I guess so, but nothing personal so like I said, we can agree to disagree....Show more →
sure go aead and disagree on what I wrote and meant
I have actually owned every single 1D camera from 2004 and made many publications with each of them and every one of them had a bag load of useless features and gimmicks that never worked as advertised. I was one of the "pros" Canon reached out for feedback on 1D cameras in the past.
speedmaster20d wrote:
sure go aead and disagree on what I wrote and meant
I have actually owned every single 1D camera from 2004 and made many publications with each of them and every one of them had a bag load of useless features and gimmicks that never worked as advertised. I was one of the "pros" Canon reached out for feedback on 1D cameras in the past.
Exactly my point. You of all people should know better and so I believed you. We all appreciate your technical input but I'm glad this time you will be proved wrong in your prediction and and claim that "the only way to go to those high frame rates and still be useful is with the mirror up in LV or in mirror-less cameras"
If the 1DXIII is not useful at 16fps, Canon will have a huge mess on their hands. If this turns out to be true that their flagship camera is not useful at 16fps I will happily eat crow. But if I'm a betting man, I think you'll be the one eating crow. We shall see...
artsupreme wrote:
Exactly my point. You of all people should know better and so I believed you. We all appreciate your technical input but I'm glad this time you will be proved wrong in your prediction and and claim that "the only way to go to those high frame rates and still be useful is with the mirror up in LV or in mirror-less cameras"
If the 1DXIII is not useful at 16fps, Canon will have a huge mess on their hands. If this turns out to be true that their flagship camera is not useful at 16fps I will happily eat crow. But if I'm a betting man, I think you'll be the one eating crow. We shall see...
I never predicted anything. I said 16 fps is not useful for my application because of the blackout. it seems you don't understand the math and logic so let's leave it there.
What I’m most impressed with are video centric updates. C-Log, 4:2:2 and RAW internal recording are huge sell points for some!
I know that many of you don’t care about video but there is something to consider here. What are the chances that these updates alone will move the price of the 1DXIII higher? Or maybe they are put in there to make the $6500 price tag “easier” to swallow
Any thoughts on the price? Same as 1DXII? Higher, lower?
kosin wrote:
What I’m most impressed with are video centric updates. C-Log, 4:2:2 and RAW internal recording are huge sell points for some!
I know that many of you don’t care about video but there is something to consider here. What are the chances that these updates alone will move the price of the 1DXIII higher? Or maybe they are put in there to make the $6500 price tag “easier” to swallow
Any thoughts on the price? Same as 1DXII? Higher, lower?
I'm guessing same price. I think they would be hard pressed to raise the price given the current market uncertainty with customers deciding between further DSLR investment vs MILC investment.
I think Canon and Nikon will be reluctant to lower the price point. Instead they'll try to convince us the extra/new features are worth spending the same amount of money. This has pretty much always been the case with the 1D series. From the original to the IV, price was pretty steady. The X bumped it higher, IIRC...
speedmaster20d wrote:
I said it is not useful because of the mirror blackout. the theoretical limit is 1/ backlit time = 22 fps but you won't be able to see anything in the finder
What's worse? Seeing action real-time with blackout during the actual exposure or slight but real EVF lag present with high speed action? Even at 20fps, the frame rate can be too low and a decisive moment can happen between frames (true for OVF and EVF).
At least with this camera, you have both options - OVF and live view (though without an EVF it will be difficult to use with long lenses and fast action).
A challenge I experienced with the a9 was knowing exactly when I actually took a picture. Maybe it was lack of practice with it, but I just couldn't get a clean feel for decisive moment timing, therefore resorted a lot to 20fps bursts.
Big question for me with the 1DXIII and shooting 20fps live view will be whether, or how bad, the stutter will be.
On another note, also glad about adoption of dual CF Express slots and glad I didn't buy any CFast other than the one that came with the II. Only pain, from my point of view, of CFE will be event shooting where no one will know what to do with CFE cards, at least not for a while. Wonder if there is a CFE-SD adapter? As for 1DXII buffer depth, with CFast, I'd say roughly 50-60 RAW frames is not a problem, but eventually it does stutter momentarily. It's virtually unlimited shooting Jpeg.
I haven't followed this closely, but I hope Canon has a really great camera here. I am currently not interested in my primary camera being mirrorless, and I welcome pretty much all developments in dslr's. Even if they are out of my price range.
Hopefully the 90D foreshadows an excellent new 1Dx series
I realize that even though I used a 1DX for the past years, I’m not interested anymore in DSLR updates. This may be great for pros who can write off the camera in a few years, but not for me looking at spending normal money to get some birds in focus...
Maybe tonight we will discover it is 24.