GroovyGeek wrote:
If you are in the area you can try to get a walk-in spot for the Wave, I think that the lottery for October has come and gone. If you try mid week in late October you have a fighting chance, especially as a single. If you try Tue-Wed and then go to Paria, Wirepass Canyon, Cottonwood Road instead if you don't win you will not have missed much. But it does require a 12 mile roindtrip hike.
I have never heard of the Wave before, but I took a quick look and I can understand why it's so popular and tough to get in! I will try to make a stop there for the walk-in lottery. Just for clarification, is Paria, Wirepass Canyon, and Cottonwood Road the alternative for not getting the permit? Also,do you think the hikes are manageable for someone who has no problem hiking on trails but has no experience with more arduous hikes or with specialized equipment? Thanks!
Other large groups of slots can be found near Hanksville, Escalante, etc.
See https://www.americansouthwest.net/slot_canyons/map.html
Many of the slots on this site are semi or completely 'technical,' being beyond the reach of the typical weekend warrior. Feel free to explore them, heading upstream until you reach an impasse, but NEVER 'drop in' to a slot or descend into something you can't readily climb back out of. Big potholes are called 'keepers' for a reason!
I'll also toss Valley of the Gods into the hat as a peaceful, underpopulated alternative to the zoo that is Monument Valley.
Maxbot wrote:
I have never heard of the Wave before, but I took a quick look and I can understand why it's so popular and tough to get in! I will try to make a stop there for the walk-in lottery. Just for clarification, is Paria, Wirepass Canyon, and Cottonwood Road the alternative for not getting the permit? Also,do you think the hikes are manageable for someone who has no problem hiking on trails but has no experience with more arduous hikes or with specialized equipment? Thanks!
IMO, yes. Wire Pass, etc. make SUPERB alternatives to the 'Wave.' The general plan is to hang out in Kanab for a while and play the daily lottery until you can go surfing. (With up to 100+ contestants vying for 10 next-day permits, it may take you a while!) When/if you do win a Wave / Northern Coyote Buttes permit, be sure to investigate the 'other' formations close by - the whole area is crawling with cool rock formations. https://www.thewave.info/CoyoteButtesNorthCode/Map.html
The Wire/Buckskin trail head is under an hour from Kanab, as are Water Canyon, the east half of Zion NP, Coral Pink Dunes, Paria Movie area, Toadstool Hoodoos, and more. Destinations under two hours include North Rim GC, Page area, Lee's Ferry, Snow Canyon, Cedar Breaks, Bryce NP, Cottonwood Canyon destinations, etc. You could chill in Kanab for well over a week and never come close to exhausting the local scenery. Kanab itself has a neat camera store that is worth a visit.
Sedona, AZ is another possibility. Could spend 2-3 days there; need a four wheel drive. There are still a few "relatively" less expensive motels around the town. Red rock, blue skies, white clouds and vast open expanses make for wonderful landscape opportunities! The period just after sundown can be great, as the pinks, oranges and cream colors blend in the sky.
Maxbot wrote:
That's certainly an interesting way to do a road trip! I looked into BLM land, and it looks like it would be pretty straightforward to find a campsite or such and just park there for the night?
I'll definitely check out Capitol Reef! I'm very familiar with how the best scenery is always hidden and hard to access, and I'm definitely up for those hikes. Thank you for the suggestions!
Heck, campsites are a luxury the way I normally roll. Usually I end up off of some dirt road in a clearing, or a trailhead if it's outside of national park boundaries. If you plan it right, you can use it as an opportunity to stop and camp somewhere that will have nice sunset and sunrise photo opportunities.
Apart from all the red sandstone desert suggestions you've had so far, the only other locations I have to add is Chiricahua national monument and the Bisti badlands. Trouble is they're both a bit of a drive from Utah, Chiricahua especially.
There's an app called Freeroam that could be very helpful if you decide to go the car camping route. It shows campgrounds of all sorts along with the boundaries of national parks, BLM and the like.
The Rat wrote:
If you rent a large enough car, you can just set up a sleeping bag/pad setup in the back. That's what I do whenever I go on road trips. Huge boost in flexibility, as well as saving on motel fees! The Southwest is full of BLM land and other places you can park and not be bothered as well.
Capitol Reef is my big recommendation, especially if you don't mind putting in the miles when hiking. All the best stuff is on the longer, more remote hikes.
This is what I have done in the past (and would be doing for my upcoming rockies trip if it wasn't so cold). Just have to make sure you get a car with traditional (body-wide) fold downs - I once got stuck with a GMC Acadia that had "commander's chairs" instead of bench seats and that left a huge gap in the middle when folded down.
The Rat wrote:
Heck, campsites are a luxury the way I normally roll. Usually I end up off of some dirt road in a clearing, or a trailhead if it's outside of national park boundaries. If you plan it right, you can use it as an opportunity to stop and camp somewhere that will have nice sunset and sunrise photo opportunities.
Apart from all the red sandstone desert suggestions you've had so far, the only other locations I have to add is Chiricahua national monument and the Bisti badlands. Trouble is they're both a bit of a drive from Utah, Chiricahua especially.
There's an app called Freeroam that could be very helpful if you decide to go the car camping route. It shows campgrounds of all sorts along with the boundaries of national parks, BLM and the like....Show more →
Chiricahua Nat. Monument is a lovely place. Hike among the Bryce-like hoodoos and oak forests. Cave Creek, on the east side of the Chiricahua mountains, is very pretty area, with plenty of hiking. Lots of critters and plants characteristic of the Sonoran Desert. Popular with bird people. There should be colorful maples late in the month. There are several lodges in the Portal area, such as http://portallodge.com/rooms/lodge-rooms
Check the weather wherever you decide to go. In the desert areas the temperatures drop week by week going into the winter. If also makes it much more of a challenge to haul around cold weather clothing. At Zion for example the night time lows are in the low 40's in October and dropping to below freezing in November.
I have only gone on one trip where I needed to also take a sleeping bag and it is not something I would recommend for a 2-week trip. I want a motel, even a cheap one, where I have a shower and outlets to recharge batteries and Wifi to check email. There are also many areas in the southwest where it is illegal to "camp" unless you are fully self-contained, as in an RV with a toilet. There are Class B and C RV's that can be rented in the SF Bay area and in Arizona.
Fire risk should also be part of any assessment. I missed by a week having to deal with the Camp Fire that blackened the skies around northern California and had a problem with Big Sur and with Jackson Hole and Yellowstone with the fires closing the highways and having gray sky.
Maxbot wrote:
I am mainly looking forward to not having to be considerate of non-photographer travel companions. As I have never visited the area I would like to hit the greatest hits, but I would also love to get away from the buses and tourists and discover beautiful vistas on my own and just be immersed in photography and scenery. Your description of the vignettes and narrow canyons is intoxicating! I checked out Guy Tal's photos, and they are breathtaking! I am definitely planning on doing my own exploration and getting off the well-paved paths, but is there a way to have some idea of what or where to look ahead of time?
Appreciate the tips on lodging and Navajo guides for Monument Valley! Knowing that motels can be found each day instead of booked in advance will allow me much more flexibility, and I look forward to traveling with a Navajo guide. Would you happen to know if guides and photography tours need to be reserved far in advance? That would cut into the flexibility of the itinerary!
Regarding "getting off the well-paved paths," I don't know of any sources of information. That's why they are not well paved. Just start driving, keep your eyes peeled, use your esthetic instincts, and do some walking around. Before shooting a new area I generally scope the area for awhile, making stops at promising locations. I mark return spots on my GPS, keeping in mind where the sun will go.
Regarding the Navajo guides, two places where you can get info are Gouldings and the hotel in the tribal area. There are probably other places, too. In an October trip, i had no problem arranging a guide the night before we went out. The guide was amazing. She had a giant-wheeled truck that got us through deep sand and muddy roads with no problems. (They do not go off-road.)
elkhornsun wrote:
Check the weather wherever you decide to go. In the desert areas the temperatures drop week by week going into the winter. If also makes it much more of a challenge to haul around cold weather clothing. At Zion for example the night time lows are in the low 40's in October and dropping to below freezing in November.
I have only gone on one trip where I needed to also take a sleeping bag and it is not something I would recommend for a 2-week trip. I want a motel, even a cheap one, where I have a shower and outlets to recharge batteries and Wifi to check email. There are also many areas in the southwest where it is illegal to "camp" unless you are fully self-contained, as in an RV with a toilet. There are Class B and C RV's that can be rented in the SF Bay area and in Arizona.
Fire risk should also be part of any assessment. I missed by a week having to deal with the Camp Fire that blackened the skies around northern California and had a problem with Big Sur and with Jackson Hole and Yellowstone with the fires closing the highways and having gray sky.
When it comes to the Southwest, at least in Utah, you are right to point out that it can start to get very, very cold there by mid to late October. I recall a rather uncomfortable morning in the teens in late October in the Capitol Reef backcountry.
A person who is an experienced camper and traveller in rural areas can do OK out there at this time of year — especially if that knowledge is sufficient to know when to beat a hasty retreat.
A person whose experience isn't so extensive, or who cannot travel with the appropriate gear, is probably better off staying in more traditional lodgings.
Heading out into the back of beyond is a fine thing, but for folks who are new to this sort of travel and that level of adventure... it is usually better to start with locations that are a bit more civilized. Fortunately, there is plenty to see in this part of the world to keep our OP busy for several weeks.
gdanmitchell wrote:
Fortunately, there is plenty to see in this part of the world to keep our OP busy for several weeks.
Plenty to keep OP busy for several weeks? Hah! How about several years. Possibly several decades
Greg Campbell wrote:
IMO, yes. Wire Pass, etc. make SUPERB alternatives to the 'Wave.'
Second that. Greg was the one who opened my eyes to Wirepass/Buckskin close to 6 years ago. If you value solitude you can't beat them. October is not the best time for Wirepass since the sun is never fully overhead so it will be a bit dim, but it is still wonderful. And you can hike down Buckskin for as long as you like and probably not see another person in October. Just be sure to note the cairns where Wirepass merges into Buckskin and/or make a landmark of your own so you don't miss it on the way back, or you are in for a long hike.
Another source of information for the Southwest is https://www.thewave.info/ The pics there are not great, but the list of locations with detailed access descriptions is helpful for first timers.
The Rat wrote:
There's an app called Freeroam that could be very helpful if you decide to go the car camping route. It shows campgrounds of all sorts along with the boundaries of national parks, BLM and the like.
Did not know about Freeroam. Interesting app, albeit limited. I find the USFS and BLM overlays useful but the list of campsites seems quite limited. https://freecampsites.net/ is a better boondocking source.
Maxbot wrote:
[Also,do you think the hikes are manageable for someone who has no problem hiking on trails but has no experience with more arduous hikes or with specialized equipment? Thanks!
It depends on what you mean by "more arduous". The Wave is a 6 mile one way hike, I have never been there but from what I understand the trail is easy to moderate and mostly visible. You will need to bring plenty of water and a gps tracker just in case you get disoriented. October should be cool to cold, so if you think you can hike for 12 miles on a half decent trail then you should be OK.
gdanmitchell wrote:
Fortunately, there is plenty to see in this part of the world to keep our OP busy for several weeks.
GroovyGeek wrote:
Plenty to keep OP busy for several weeks? Hah! How about several years. Possibly several decades
Heh. Yes. ;-)
More like a lifetime. Or two.
I was mainly thinking that even a visitor who stuck to places where there is commercial lodging would have no problem finding a ton to see and photograph for a few weeks. But you are quite right.
My "home landscape" is California's Sierra Nevada (along with some other California stuff, such as the coast) and I've been traveling and photographing those mountains for decades — front country and back country. Last week a friend mentioned a particular Sierra lake she had photographed and I mentioned that I didn't know it by name. She told me a bit more and I realized where it was and shared a photograph with her from the general area that I had made about a decade-and-a-half ago.
The wrote back that, "You've been everywhere!" I replied and pointed out that there are tons of places in just that one range that I've haven't been to and that I'll probably never get to. I'm sure that the same holds true for folks who spend a ton of time in that glorious Utah landscape. I've spent weeks there... but I know that I've barely scratched its surface.
Late September to early October can be prime time for the aspen in the mountains in CO. With the moisture we've gotten this summer, my guess is it will be a bit later than the last few years, meaning probably peaking in early to mid October depending on where you want to go and the elevation. Aspen area is always fantastic as is Crested Butte and SW Colorado near Telluride.
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and advice! I've been a little swamped with moving the past week, but your suggestions will be invaluable for my trip planning. I agree with Dan that it would probably be smarter for me to stick to motels, as I have no experience with camping or overnight travel, but I can see being able to easily spend 3-4 weeks just visiting the more accessible and civilized sites and parks.
One things I've been wondering - how do I deal with the lighting during the day? When I traveled in the past with family and friends, I would get up early for sunrise and scout out a good location for sunset, and spend the daytime doing non-photography activities. On this photography focused trip, should I spend the daytime when the light is uninteresting traveling, hiking, scouting, or resting instead of shooting? Or just accept that not all images at all locations will be shot under good light? I can usually make good images during the daytime, but they naturally can't compare to what I can get under good lighting. I suspect there is a balance between trying to ensure good lighting for photos and seeing as much as I can each day, but I would love to hear from the more experienced landscape photographers!
Slots and even larger canyons with red rock walls are great in the middle of the day and, in my view, often not as good during the very early and late times when we might shoot other kinds of landscapes. In the middle of the day, especially in fall when the sun isn't quite directly overhead, the light hits upper canyon walls, lighting them up and reflecting that colorful light down against other red rock walls before the glow finally reaches the lower parts of the canyons.
So, canyons in the middle of the day. That and scouting and driving from place to place.
Consider the nature of the subject. Some places the likely best light is fairly obvious. For example, at Bryce the popular eroded features face east and are typically better early in the morning. If you get to Cedar Breaks, near Brian Head, the opposite holds true, since that feature is open to the west and the late light. If you are photographing big, wide open subjects (big features at Arches, the upper areas of Canyonlands, the major features at Capitol Reef, and similar) you'll still probably want to aim for the early/late times.
For my part, when I'm doing a long photography trip like this I need some down time. That could be as simple as a "time out" in the middle of the day to hang out somewhere, or you could even take a day off from photography, especially if the light isn't great or you need to travel.
But do try to schedule around the light. It is the most important thing. A beautiful feature can look mediocre in the middle of the day in many cases but be transformed in better light.
gdanmitchell wrote:
Slots and even larger canyons with red rock walls are great in the middle of the day and, in my view, often not as good during the very early and late times when we might shoot other kinds of landscapes. In the middle of the day, especially in fall when the sun isn't quite directly overhead, the light hits upper canyon walls, lighting them up and reflecting that colorful light down against other red rock walls before the glow finally reaches the lower parts of the canyons.
So, canyons in the middle of the day. That and scouting and driving from place to place.
Consider the nature of the subject. Some places the likely best light is fairly obvious. For example, at Bryce the popular eroded features face east and are typically better early in the morning. If you get to Cedar Breaks, near Brian Head, the opposite holds true, since that feature is open to the west and the late light. If you are photographing big, wide open subjects (big features at Arches, the upper areas of Canyonlands, the major features at Capitol Reef, and similar) you'll still probably want to aim for the early/late times.
For my part, when I'm doing a long photography trip like this I need some down time. That could be as simple as a "time out" in the middle of the day to hang out somewhere, or you could even take a day off from photography, especially if the light isn't great or you need to travel.
But do try to schedule around the light. It is the most important thing. A beautiful feature can look mediocre in the middle of the day in many cases but be transformed in better light.
Thank you so much for all of your help Dan! I think you've given me a lot of knowledge and experience for planning the trip. I'm excited to explore all of these amazing places you've suggested.
Another question - do you find long telephotos useful in Utah and Arizona? I'm traditionally prefer ultrawides for landscapes, though I've been branching out into more telephoto usage. I found my 70-200 not really long enough to capture interesting perspective, and acquired a 100-400 when I was planning on Alaska due to the expansiveness of the vistas. Would either telephoto lenses be useful? They're pretty small for their zoom ranges, but still significantly larger and heavier than any other lenses I own. Thanks!
Maxbot wrote:
Another question - do you find long telephotos useful in Utah and Arizona? I'm traditionally prefer ultrawides for landscapes, though I've been branching out into more telephoto usage. I found my 70-200 not really long enough to capture interesting perspective, and acquired a 100-400 when I was planning on Alaska due to the expansiveness of the vistas. Would either telephoto lenses be useful? They're pretty small for their zoom ranges, but still significantly larger and heavier than any other lenses I own. Thanks!
You're asking a person who is a pretty big fan of long focal lengths for landscape, so my answer will have a bias.
Unless I were only going to shoot in slot canyons, I would definitely take long lenses, too — especially for a trip as long as yours.
If I were heading to Utah I would carry my 16-35, 24-70, 70-200, 100-400, and probably my 1.4X TC.
One option if you want to save weight/bulk would be to leave the 70-200mm and bring the 100-400.
You'll be working from a vehicle, so better to err on the side of bringing along a wider range of lenses, I think.
Thanks Dan! I'm not too opposed to carrying a larger kit since I will be operating from a vehicle. I'm planning to take the 100-400 in addition to a UWA zoom, 24-105, and a couple of primes.
