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Archive 2019 · Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 DG DN first impressions

  
 
rvh23
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p.51 #1 · Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 DG DN first impressions


jeetsukumaran wrote:
You know what they say about opinions ...

So, here's mine. Contrary to the opinions expressed above, I think that the answer to this cannot be answered by a simple "yes" or "no", and the truth is more nuanced.

I have both the Sigma 14-24 and 16-35 GM. I've had the GM for about a year now, and the Sigma since Dec. I use both for primarily landscape. I have tested both side-by-side exhaustively, both in contrived wall/carpet/bookshelf/chart type tests as well as real-world applications.

My verdict is:


  1. In the center the Sony 16-35 GM is slightly but noticeably better across all apertures
  2. In the corners the Sigma 14-24 is slightly but noticeably better across all apertures and all focal lengths in which they overlap.


Of course, the Sigma beasts the Sony easily in the 14mm-16mm range and the Sony beats the Sigma easily in the 24mm-35mm range, and I think for those deciding between the two it will come down to this.

Other things to consider:


  1. Oh yes, filters. I have the Nisi system for the Sigma. It is massive PIA in every sense compared to screw on type (which you need for CPL). Not to mention when shooting in salt spray or sandy/dusty conditions or simply walking about it risky places (e.g., an abandoned gold mine!), it really is nice to have the ability to protect the front element with a UV filter.
  2. The Sony works wonderfully with the Sony bluetooth remote. Focus can easily be adjusted in manual mode without touching lens or camera. A HUGE benefit for focus-stacking in the field. I suspect that when (or if) Sony comes out with automatic focus bracketing/stacking, it will work seamlessly with the GM. Not so sure with the Sigma.


(NOTE 1:
My copy of the Sony GM was sent back to be recalibrated under warranty very early in its tenure with me. It came back considerably better in the corners. The center is a laser. And, an anomaly from everyone else's experience I know, it is also pretty strong in the long end of the range as well, using my Canon EF 24-70 f/2.8 L II as a reference. I suspect that it is at least on the better side of the spectrum of all the copies out there thanks to the special attention it received during calibration.
)

(NOTE 2:
I'm definitely planning on selling one of these, i.e., either the Sigma 14-24 or the 16-35 GM soon. The fact that I have not yet decided which one to sell yet, after 3 months of both in hand, shows how difficult it is to choose between the two. Honestly, for me, it will really come down to focal range. Previously, I've managed fine with 16-35 and 100-400. I use the 100-200 range for landscapes a lot. With those two lenses in my bag, I occasionally used to miss something in the 35mm to 100mm range. But I could live with that. However, with the 14-24 instead of the 16-35, I find myself really missing the 35mm to 100mm range A LOT. I have a 24-70, but do not want to carry three heavy lenses. At the same time, though, I'm really liking the 14mm side of things. Hence my dilemma choosing between the 14-24 and 16-35!
)
...Show more

He wanted a 'quick' summary regarding IQ, so that's what I provided.

There are multiple demonstrations of the Sigma's IQ in this thread, showing it can match or exceed even the very best primes in its range. And it's not just in the corners, my post above shows it performs just great at 12 and 18mm from the center too. I usually don't bother with center sharpness if I know I have great performance further out, but may look that comparison too for completeness sake when I have some time.

As far as I know, that sort of IQ was never shown for the GM here on FM. It approached the performance of some of the best primes, but more often didn't quite match it (especially in the corners). Certainly I never saw an indication that it might be better than say a Loxia 21, which is what some reports suggest with the Sigma.

My own experience with the GM was that is was 'great for a zoom' at the time, and I really wanted it to be as good as my Loxias because it was so convenient, but in the end had to concede it wasn't, and so I sold it.

You may well have a fabulously good copy of the GM that is much better than usual, or a poorer than usual Sigma (or both), but more generally I've seen an awful lot of indications that the Sigma is the superior lens. Hopefully we won't have to wait too long for Roger's measured MTFs.

But of course, if you need 24-35 rather than 14-16, the GM is still a great choice.

** edit ** having looked briefly at a center comparison between the Loxia 21 and Sigma, it's not worth posting as they are both pretty much perfect even at f2.8. And in any real world (focus stacked) images I take with these two lenses, the IQ is indistinguishable across the entire frame.





Edited on Feb 10, 2020 at 02:44 AM · View previous versions


Feb 09, 2020 at 09:25 PM
rvh23
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p.51 #2 · Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 DG DN first impressions


DaveFP wrote:
Ouch; that "good copy" thing again.



Lately we're seeing the majority of the Sigma's being reported on FM as well centered across the whole zoom range. That's very different from the Sony wide zooms - I know of several FM members who tried multiple times to find the same with those, but eventually gave up.



Feb 09, 2020 at 09:43 PM
Holger
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p.51 #3 · Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 DG DN first impressions


rvh23 wrote:
He wanted a 'quick' summary regarding IQ, so that's what I provided.

There are multiple demonstrations of the Sigma's IQ in this thread, showing it can match or exceed even the very best primes in its range. And it's not just in the corners, my post above shows the advantage over the Loxia-21 at 12 and 18mm from the center too. I usually don't bother with center sharpness if I know I have great performance further out, but may look that comparison too for completeness sake when I have some time.

As far as I know, that sort of IQ
...Show more

I think people are often too obsessed with corner performance, here ;-)

The GM is more than usable, even if the Sigma is better. If people are able to make images like Albert Dros and still feel held back by slightly worse corners of the GM, I could understand that a bit better:
https://www.albertdros.com/single-post/2017/09/26/The-Sony-16-35-f28-GM-vs-Sony-Zeiss-16-35-f4-for-Landscape-Photography

The performance of the Sigma is nice to have, but what does it help if people can't live up to the quality of the gear (no pun intended). Personally I think the focal length range or filter issue to be a more important criteria.



Feb 10, 2020 at 02:38 AM
rvh23
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p.51 #4 · Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 DG DN first impressions


Holger wrote:
I think people are often too obsessed with corner performance, here ;-)

The GM is more than usable, even if the Sigma is better. If people are able to make images like Albert Dros and still feel held back by slightly better corners of the GM, I could understand that a bit better:
https://www.albertdros.com/single-post/2017/09/26/The-Sony-16-35-f28-GM-vs-Sony-Zeiss-16-35-f4-for-Landscape-Photography

The performance of the Sigma is nice to have, but what does it help if people can't live up to the quality of the gear (no pun intended). Personally I think the focal length range or filter issue to be a more important criteria.


Sure, artistically good photos can be made with just about any lens. But an artistically good photo that is also technically superb is much more satisfying to me. I have plenty of old images that I may like from an aesthetic point of view, but am no longer satisfied with because images from more recent years have noticably better IQ.




Feb 10, 2020 at 03:06 AM
Holger
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p.51 #5 · Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 DG DN first impressions


rvh23 wrote:
Sure, artistically good photos can be made with just about any lens. But an artistically good photo that is also technically superb is much more satisfying to me. I have plenty of old images that I may like from an aesthetic point of view, but am no longer satisfied with because images from more recent years have noticably better IQ.



Of course, don't deny that having a better lens is more satisfying! That is usually the case with almost all stuff in life ;-).

In my experience, most of the time people invest too much time and money in the best possible gear instead of trying to improve technique, composition etc. Just had the debate at a wedding workshop we gave regarding the 85 GM (now for 1500 Euros) vs. the new Canon 85/1.2RF (3000 Euros). Both are very close when pixel-peeping according to comparisons I saw. But internet hype is leading many beginners to think they need to invest 3 grand in a lens to make impressive images.
Similarly here. I would strictly follow a list with important factors before buying (focal length range required (wanted), ease of using filters, f2.8 vs. f4, size+weight, price). If I wanted 14-16mm, the Sigma or Sony 12-24 would be my favourites.
I am fine with 18-24mm when I need a wide angle lens, most of the time. I have some excellent Polarpro filters (67mm). So for me the Tamron 17-28 is the reasonable choice and the comparison here show it, surprisingly, to be extremely close.
For you other factors are more important, of course.



Feb 10, 2020 at 03:33 AM
GMPhotography
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p.51 #6 · Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 DG DN first impressions


There are times actually for me where I really care that a lens is very technically correct is usually the super wides. I want low distortion and great corners. Sure we are going to stop down some but heck if I can squeeze a F4 image off when the crap hits the fan than that’s a bonus for me. I care more about rendering and bokeh north of 24mm and here I want really good. Now don’t get me wrong I liked the 12-24 a lot but 24 is not as good as this Sigma, since I sold the 24 1.4 I needed to make up for that fast need . I still will support the 12-24. It’s a great lens. As far as filtering I know many really care about it. I’m really only interested in a ND this wide like 12,14,16,18 any CPL here I find the effect too heavy. The rear ND here is a bonus, it’s small. I still got the Fotodiox Wonder pano for the Sony. Trying to sell that now


Feb 10, 2020 at 05:09 AM
tsdevine
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p.51 #7 · Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 DG DN first impressions



For me, a CPL is important for waterfall photography. That and sample variation is keeping me on the sidelines. Maybe sample variation isn't that bad, but I keep telling myself it is.

-Tim



Feb 10, 2020 at 06:39 AM
rvh23
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p.51 #8 · Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 DG DN first impressions


Holger wrote:
In my experience, most of the time people invest too much time and money in the best possible gear instead of trying to improve technique, composition etc.


Agreed, and there have been some discusisons to that effect on FM. When you are relatively inexperienced, you gain much less benefit from expensive high quality tools, and will improve much more by taking photos than buying gear. But that requires time and effort (which is what actually gives the pursuit meaning), so instead spending money on better gear is sometimes mistakenly perceived as (a shortcut to) becoming a better photographer.

But I think there are also a good number of more expereinced photographers here who are quite aware of all that, and understand what they will and will not get when buyng better gear.






Feb 10, 2020 at 08:18 AM
psharvic
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p.51 #9 · Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 DG DN first impressions


Much appreciating this thread. Thanks all for the great tests and thoughts. The fact that more Lox 21s and CV 15s (my current wide options) are showing up on B&S says something.


Feb 10, 2020 at 09:20 AM
nehemiahphoto
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p.51 #10 · Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 DG DN first impressions


I have one coming today—the coma performance at 14mm is what did it. I’ll see if it will replace my Tamron 17-28. It’s looks better, but curious how much better given the weight increase. And I’ll compare 14 vs 17. And I don’t shoot tracked, but I’ll get a tracker soon I think.

I usually bring my gm 24 or 17-28 on an A7s on some longer hikes so weight matters.

Fun times for wide angle shooters in FE land! Can’t wait to get it outside.







Feb 10, 2020 at 09:46 AM
dbehrens
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p.51 #11 · Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 DG DN first impressions




I think people are often too obsessed with corner performance, here ;-)

.


Totally agree with one very important exception. Night photography is very unforgiving on poor corner performance and stars. I hate smudgy corners in the starry skies. That is a big reason why I decided to go with the 14-24.



Feb 10, 2020 at 12:05 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.51 #12 · Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 DG DN first impressions


tsdevine wrote:
For me, a CPL is important for waterfall photography. That and sample variation is keeping me on the sidelines. Maybe sample variation isn't that bad, but I keep telling myself it is.

-Tim


A 150mm CPL filter can be used with this lens. Yes, it's more expensive and way larger in diameter compared to a 82mm CPL filter but it's available from many brands.
Moderate variation is inevitable for a zoom. I don't know of any other ultra wide zoom doing any better. I believe that the Sony 12-24/4G and 16-35/2.8 GM have higher variation.



Feb 10, 2020 at 12:58 PM
tsdevine
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p.51 #13 · Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 DG DN first impressions


I just find that when I'm hiking that these large filters systems are a pain (for me.....not projecting that I think it is for everyone.) I think the path for me with this lens would be buying it for more non-waterfall related shooting, and loving it so much that I backdoor into dealing with it for waterfalls. I struggled keeping 95mm filters droplet free.....hard to imagine a 150mm filter.

Maybe when I pickup the a7R IV at some point I'll find my current lenses in that FL range lacking.



Feb 10, 2020 at 01:04 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.51 #14 · Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 DG DN first impressions


tsdevine wrote:
I just find that when I'm hiking that these large filters systems are a pain (for me.....not projecting that I think it is for everyone.) I think the path for me with this lens would be buying it for more non-waterfall related shooting, and loving it so much that I backdoor into dealing with it for waterfalls.

Maybe when I pickup the a7R IV at some point I'll find my current lenses in that FL range lacking.


It's possible to use a rear polarizer filter.

We can't rotate it though which makes this solution a deal breaker for many shooters. However, it's possible to rotate the camera (and crop the image in post) to achieve the desired polarizing effect. It's not ideal as this could drastically reduce image resolution depending on how severe the crop is.

We can also bring a few polarizer rear filter cut-outs at different angles but that means a lot of lens swapping in the field...

I don't shoot waterfalls much but if I did, I would probably invest in 150mm filters for the Sigma 14-24. (or use primes instead)



Feb 10, 2020 at 01:30 PM
PixiPhotography
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p.51 #15 · Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 DG DN first impressions


I tested the 14-24 Art against the Tamron 15-30, and the sigma was significantly better than the Tamron. It had better coma, sharpness, faster focus, and distortion. I believe it to be even better than the Nikkor 14-24


Feb 10, 2020 at 01:36 PM
rvh23
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p.51 #16 · Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 DG DN first impressions


tsdevine wrote:
I just find that when I'm hiking that these large filters systems are a pain (for me.....not projecting that I think it is for everyone.) I think the path for me with this lens would be buying it for more non-waterfall related shooting, and loving it so much that I backdoor into dealing with it for waterfalls. I struggled keeping 95mm filters droplet free.....hard to imagine a 150mm filter.

Maybe when I pickup the a7R IV at some point I'll find my current lenses in that FL range lacking.


I use the CPL aspect of my S5 system primarily for waterfall photography, for which in my opinion the ability to control angle of polarization accurately is an absolute must. Every scene is different, and I find the areas most in need of polarization always require fine tuning of that angle for the best results. If you have the CPL filter premounted in the adapter with caps, it's a really easy combo to use, and it also takes up the least pack space that way.

Here's a recent waterfall shot taken with the Sigma 14-24 and Nisi CPL/ND64 combo. It was a typical waterfall situation for me where the ability to move around was very limited by physical constraints (balanced on some logs) so having a zoom was a real advanatage.

http://www.richardvanhoesel.com/test/KPLcweb.jpg



Feb 10, 2020 at 04:33 PM
tsdevine
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p.51 #17 · Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 DG DN first impressions


I have 4 primes that cover that range, all with dedicated screw in CPL and ND/CPL filters. (6 if you count the normal range I shoot which is 15 to 35.) I've used the Lee 100 system, found it too fiddly for my tastes. Even the Lee Seven5 system seemed kind of painful. Making sure I don't get reflections, drizzle or spray getting on the polarizer or between the other filters. My favorite place to go is Ricketts Glen, predominantly for day trips. Between work, family and kids....it's hard to get away when weather forecasts are generally unpredictable until the night before. (Even then they're not always right.) Putting together a day where it is cloudy and/or wet (but not pouring), low winds, right water flow.....not to mention autumn when you're trying to hit good color that is different towards the top of the mountain than towards the bottom.

Like I said, I'm happy others are happy with that type of setup. For me personally, I just find screw in filters easier to deal with for me in the field. I have no issues with putting that on me......but I know me, I'm not sure I can convince myself again to give it a whirl again. At least for now. It doesn't help that I tend to like primes (again nothing against zooms.)

Just call me weird. Anyway, looks like great glass, no doubt about it.

-Tim

Edited on Jun 10, 2020 at 04:35 PM · View previous versions



Feb 10, 2020 at 06:14 PM
Holger
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p.51 #18 · Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 DG DN first impressions


tsdevine wrote:
I have 4 primes that cover that range, all with dedicated screw in CPL and ND/CPL filters. (6 if you count the normal range I shoot which is 15 to 35.) I've used the Lee 100 system, found it too fiddly for my tastes. Even the Lee Seven5 system seemed kind of painful. Making sure I don't get reflections, drizzle or spray getting on the polarizer or between the other filters. My favorite place to go is Ricketts Glen, predominantly for day trips. Between work, family and kids....it's hard to get away when weather forecasts are generally unpredictable until the
...Show more

Another thing is strong wind. I often experienced flow induced vibrations of the tripod+camera in windy regions. Required me to shield the camera and use a studier tripod. A large 150-180mm front filter system is not mitigating this.
As good as the Sigma is, it likely is the best available right now, I would need to carry 1.2kg (lens + filter system) vs. 750g for a GM for example or even less for a Tamron. I prefer screw filters, too.
For indoor stuff and solid state photography not an issue. Here I prefer tilt shift lenses, however.



Feb 11, 2020 at 02:24 AM
jeetsukumaran
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p.51 #19 · Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 DG DN first impressions


tsdevine wrote:
I have 4 primes that cover that range, all with dedicated screw in CPL and ND/CPL filters. (6 if you count the normal range I shoot which is 15 to 35.) I've used the Lee 100 system, found it too fiddly for my tastes. Even the Lee Seven5 system seemed kind of painful. Making sure I don't get reflections, drizzle or spray getting on the polarizer or between the other filters. My favorite place to go is Ricketts Glen, predominantly for day trips. Between work, family and kids....it's hard to get away when weather forecasts are generally unpredictable until the
...Show more

I completely understand the difficulty in squeezing in time for photography between work, family, kids! I'm right there with you.

One thing to note is that with the Nisi system, the CPL is a screw-in filter. You could conceivably just leave it and the mount mounted on the lens all the time. Nisi also sells a huge lens cap that fits over it, so it would essentially replace the OEM Sigma lens cap. Then the primary hassle over the 16-35 as far as the CPL goes is really just that it is so big and bulky, taking up a lot of space in the bag. But in terms of usage it is then a wash. And, TBH, mounting the mount does just take less than a minute. Not really noticeably more of a hassle than, for e.g., taking off the UV filter, putting UV filter back in case, taking CPL out of case, screwing in CPL, making sure CPL is screwed in tight etc. etc. And with the CPL mounted permanently on the mount, and a front cap and rear lens cap, it is a fairly self-contained piece of kit, not as compact as screw-in filters but a lot more compact than you would think a plate filter system would be. I usually carry mine just loose in my camera bag.

In the images below, that large yellow-lined object is the Nisi filter mount with the CPL already mounted. I have a 100mm Kaiser lens cap (NOT Kaseman as I initially wrote) as the rear cap and the Nisi cap as the front cap. So, to mount the CPL I just have to remove the caps and mount the filter mount. I could get away with actually leaving the whole thing mounted permanently on the 14-24 if I invested time to reconfigure the dividers in my bag ...





The major discouraging factor is me realizing that I left the filter in my camera bag on the top of the hill while I wandered down "working" the scene and now have to hike all the way up again to get it (with the 82mm filters I usually just slip the case into my cargo pockets) ...



Of course, if you want ND filters, it is a bit more of a hassle, but once you have paid the time/effort cost of mounting the mount, I imagine slipping in an ND plate is actually faster than a screw-in.

I understand, of course, you might have a different perspective and I am not challenging this. Just sharing how I found the CPL usage less of a hassle than I anticipated.

Edited on Feb 11, 2020 at 10:53 AM · View previous versions



Feb 11, 2020 at 02:48 AM
stjepan
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p.51 #20 · Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 DG DN first impressions




In the images below, that large yellow-lined object is the Nisi filter mount with the CPL already mounted. I have a kasemann cap as the rear cap and the Nisi cap as the front cap. So, to mount the CPL I just have to remove the caps and mount the filter mount. I could get away with actually leaving the whole thing mounted permanently on the 14-24 if I invested time to reconfigure the dividers in my bag ...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thanks for the visual on the whole set up. I'm about to purchase the NiSi S5 kit too. Can you share the size of the rear cap (Kasemann), I'm not sure whether it is 100mm or 105mm?

Thanks!



Feb 11, 2020 at 05:06 AM
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