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Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary Review

  
 
RustyBug
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p.38 #1 · Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary Review


Fred Miranda wrote:
I agree with everything you said about the S45/2.8's rendering but I would love this lens even more if AF-C was accurate. It looks like SA is the main culprit to the inaccuracies with phase detection AF, so it looks like Sigma prioritized rendering and size. Perhaps if the lens was a little bigger and equipped with a floating element group we would not be having this conversation but could perhaps change the character many of us like about this lens. As it is, contrast detect and MF works well and predictably with it.


And wouldn't making it a little bigger, better corrected lens, with a floating element move it into a different category of optic, engineering (i.e. not Contemporary) and price point?

I still think that the extreme connoisseurs are wanting the bluegill to taste like Caviar.
Looks to me like some pretty tasty bluegill, just not Roe or Sea Bass.



Aug 19, 2020 at 01:22 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.38 #2 · Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary Review


RustyBug wrote:
And wouldn't making it a little bigger, better corrected lens, with a floating element move it into a different category of optic, engineering (i.e. not Contemporary) and price point?

I still think that the extreme connoisseurs are wanting the bluegill to taste like Caviar.
Looks to me like some pretty tasty bluegill, just not Roe or Sea Bass.


Yes, it would likely change pricing, size and character. That's probably why Sigma decided on the current design.



Aug 19, 2020 at 01:34 PM
Kalainen
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p.38 #3 · Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary Review


justruppert wrote:
...so I had this lens for two weeks now and was using it daily on my A7Rm4. For reference my other lenses are the manual Zeiss Loxia lenses 21mm 50mm and 85mm. I am fairly content with the Loxia lenses, they are sharp, their rendering is neutral without being special, in a nutshell they are good lenses for german stuff in the Candida Höfer, Thomas Ruff or Andreas Gursky kind of thing (if you omit for the sake of the argument that the two males in this lineup obviously have a preference for behemoth large format cameras). I am german
...Show more

Loving the way you put the rendering, which is talked so much here at FM, in the context of art and aesthetics. Most of the 'general rendering speak', however how sophisticated it sounds, happens within technical context. Like how the bokeh balls need to be perfectly round, micro contrast needs to be high, etc. Art and aesthetics are a different story where technical imperfections can lead to a certain style and so on. For example, I would love to see more rendering discussion in the context of single pictures. There are pictures where rendering just works even with the cheap kit lens, and vice versa, there are pictures where the rendering doesn't work even with the mighty 135GM for example. In some ways it would be a lot more beneficial to talk about the rendering in the context of pictures and asthetics than the technical context.



Aug 19, 2020 at 02:37 PM
justruppert
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p.38 #4 · Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary Review


Fred Miranda wrote:
I agree with everything you said about the S45/2.8's rendering but I would love this lens even more if AF-C was accurate. It looks like SA is the main culprit to the inaccuracies with phase detection AF, so it looks like Sigma prioritized rendering and size. Perhaps if the lens was a little bigger and equipped with a floating element group we would not be having this conversation but could perhaps change the character many of us like about this lens. As it is, contrast detect and MF works well and predictably with it.


...as bizarre as it may seem, I actually use this lens with AF-C all the time, mostly inside in average to low light conditions (by that I mean low light for analogue film fossils like me, which translates to 1/30 sec F4 at 3200ASA, lower than that is still something out of a spy movie for me like night vision goggles). I prefer AF-C with this lens because it is quieter and it hunts a lot less. I find it to be in focus enough, mostly for the reason I elaborated earlier: few things with this lens are ever completely out of focus. I think of it more as of a "set and forget" kind of tool. With the A7R4 I set my tracking point on the thing I want to kind of have in focus and then I keep the half push on the shutter button until I have a composition I like, which sometimes takes a lot of time, a time during which I actually enjoy not having to think about focus anymore. And since I started taking pictures with the Sigma I haven't had a single picture I disliked because it was out of focus. Which is not to say that there haven't been any images out of focus, but focus is simply not that important with this lens.

It's hard to comprehend until you experience it. But have a look at images from Weegee, Capa, Margret Bourke White, Dorothea Lange, or even Cartier Bresson and try to concentrate on the relation of those elements in the images that are in focus to those elements that actually tell the story and often times you'll notice that focus and story are not on the same plane, which conceptually seems like a contradiction, but in fact often tells a better, because more multilayered story.

When we talk among us photo nerds about photography, we often talk about control, about tools that faithfully do what we want them to do. But the only way to keep total control of every aspect of your image is if you paint them yourself.
For everybody else using photography always includes a vast area of randomness in which you let things be revealed to you without fully controlling them, even if your name is Gregory Crewdson or Jeff Wall and even still if your main subject are the mountains of Yosemite National Park.

Gee, so many words for such a little lens.
I think I went a little of topic here, just like the Sigma in AF-C I guess.
I knew there was a reason I liked this lens.



Aug 19, 2020 at 03:20 PM
justruppert
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p.38 #5 · Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary Review


mudlake wrote:
I don’t tend to get too philosophical about things that don’t work as they should.


...but how to know what things really should do if you don't allow yourself to get a little philosophical about it.



Aug 19, 2020 at 04:44 PM
Kalainen
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p.38 #6 · Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary Review


justruppert wrote:
...as bizarre as it may seem, I actually use this lens with AF-C all the time, mostly inside in average to low light conditions (by that I mean low light for analogue film fossils like me, which translates to 1/30 sec F4 at 3200ASA, lower than that is still something out of a spy movie for me like night vision goggles). I prefer AF-C with this lens because it is quieter and it hunts a lot less. I find it to be in focus enough, mostly for the reason I elaborated earlier: few things with this lens are ever completely
...Show more

Liking and even making pictures that are intentionally a bit out of focus/misfocused might certainly be a controversial subject among (technically minded) photo nerds. But after half a million rightly focused shots one starts to see photography from a different angle on view. For beginners and photographers with less experience it's usual that they emphasize things like sharpness, realism, photographing things 'just like I saw them', having focus 'spot on' with 'high micro contrast' etc.. Only after x years of experience or so one begins to appreciate the more abstract nature of the photographs and storytelling. It's the same as when learning to draw as a kid. At younger age kids usually strive for realism (got to get the nose right!) and later on they start to appreciate more abstract expression with the intellectual concepts.



Aug 19, 2020 at 04:49 PM
mudlake
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p.38 #7 · Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary Review




justruppert wrote:
...but how to know what things really should do if you don't allow yourself to get a little philosophical about it.


You’re making something simple too complicated. 🙂. A lens is designed to record light. It’s purpose is to allow the photographer to choose what he wants in focus and what he wants out of focus. Plus other things like depth of field, etc. I don’t think any of the great photographers you listed would use a lens that didn’t focus on what they wanted to focus on, just because they might get something that looks “artistic” every once in a while. No. They used their equipment to record the events around them the way they chose to record them. They had to work with the limitations of their equipment and made great art. The key ingredient to good photos is the mind and vision of the photographer, not a lens that does what it wants. There’s really nothing to philosophize about that.

I’m not trying to rain on anyone’s parade. It’s great we have the choices we do! It just seems strange to celebrate the fact that a lens doesn’t focus and say that’s a good thing. Just an opinion. 👍



Aug 19, 2020 at 05:01 PM
Jochenb
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p.38 #8 · Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary Review


You really have a romantic view on it justruppert, which is fine ofcourse.

I look at it differently.
When I "see" a photograph I already envision it in my mind. The camera and lens are then a tool to capture how I envision it.
A lens that misfocuses so oftenly hinders this. I don't want random photos to be out of focus. I want to decide that for myself. I don't want to depend on lucky accidents. The vast majority of photos that are out of focus are not nicer than I imagined them in my head. So the result: disappointment because I missed the shot.

That's why I'll stop using this lens for my street photography (which I often do in AF-C).



Aug 19, 2020 at 05:01 PM
Goodrich
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p.38 #9 · Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary Review


Yeah, but with digital images you can blur or smear sharp ones if that’s what you want. Sharpening blurry images is a bit trickier


Aug 19, 2020 at 05:03 PM
imagesfromobjects
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p.38 #10 · Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary Review



Sigma PR will be reaching out to you with a job offer, check your inbox.


justruppert wrote:
...as bizarre as it may seem, I actually use this lens with AF-C all the time, mostly inside in average to low light conditions (by that I mean low light for analogue film fossils like me, which translates to 1/30 sec F4 at 3200ASA, lower than that is still something out of a spy movie for me like night vision goggles). I prefer AF-C with this lens because it is quieter and it hunts a lot less. I find it to be in focus enough, mostly for the reason I elaborated earlier: few things with this lens are ever completely
...Show more



Aug 19, 2020 at 05:04 PM
 


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imagesfromobjects
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p.38 #11 · Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary Review



C'mon, everyone knows only poseurs use autofocus for street photography.

Sheesh!!
Jochenb wrote:
You really have a romantic view on it justruppert, which is fine ofcourse.

I look at it differently.
When I "see" a photograph I already envision it in my mind. The camera and lens are then a tool to capture how I envision it.
A lens that misfocuses so oftenly hinders this. I don't want random photos to be out of focus. I want to decide that for myself. I don't want to depend on lucky accidents. The vast majority of photos that are out of focus are not nicer than I imagined them in my head. So the
...Show more



Aug 19, 2020 at 05:07 PM
philip_pj
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p.38 #12 · Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary Review


Art and aesthetics - a huge and virtually untouched area of interest. We can actually look for lenses that draw slightly OOF subject matter well, as a travel/culture guy I rate this quality very highly.

Reviews tend to 'mistake the map for the territory' and become an end in themselves, not as a measure of in-service lens quality or drawing style. It's largely a techno field these days, and reviews are the means of selling lenses, but so few offer actual collections of real world imagery so readers can see with their own eyes what it can do, for what it was designed for in the first place.

People using photographic equipment tend to see the world through the sharpness filter, it's something deeply embedded in their mindset - it's the pathway they use to approach the activity. Maybe at some stage people will have enough sharpness and the conversations can move on to something more useful for crafting high quality imagery. Even the terminology needs development. As pointed out, 'rendering' is vague and open to wide interpretation. Bokeh to many equals softness, and so on.

I miss the strong European influence we had in earlier times here. As a final comment, Sony's 55/1.8 designer said the Japanese design community loved how the European designers would leave an imperfection in the lens if it assists the image-making, all but admitting perfection might not be the best thing to aim for - if beautiful images are your goal.



Aug 19, 2020 at 05:56 PM
RustyBug
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p.38 #13 · Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary Review


philip_pj wrote:
Art and aesthetics - a huge and virtually untouched area of interest. We can actually look for lenses that draw slightly OOF subject matter well, as a travel/culture guy I rate this quality very highly.

Reviews tend to 'mistake the map for the territory' and become an end in themselves, not as a measure of in-service lens quality or drawing style. It's largely a techno field these days, and reviews are the means of selling lenses, but so few offer actual collections of real world imagery so readers can see with their own eyes what it can do, for what
...Show more

+1 @ slight oof draw, etc.

Optics are always a series of trade-offs ... one man's imperfection is another man's gold. Things like sharpness (absolute, and transition between zones) and bokeh rendering are often diametrically opposed, with many uber sharp lenses having nervous bokeh. Yet, there too ... one person thinks nervous bokeh bothersome, while another finds it interesting.

Quibble over the awesome stuff, but choose your poison(s) wisely. Some are merely quid pro quo for that which you love. Others are problematic for what you dislike. The quest for perfection has taking the size and cost of lenses into areas that the joy of handling them (and buying them) has receded into an interference as much as it has gained technical accuracy ... just a different form of "quid pro quo".

The size and aperture ring of the 45/2.8 make it seem like it would be a nice handler. But, in downsizing, the engineering for AF speed may be the sacrifice for physical construction and/or for price point. If single AF is still good, but it's not a great continuous tracker, it could be that it is well suited to zone focusing or manual focusing, with an AF for "those times". Rather than being engineered for continuous. I don't shoot much continuous, so that doesn't put me off. Others, who do ... well, it may not have been made for that application. A camry isn't a racecar, nor pickup truck, either. All are vehicles, but they aren't all built to the same use, nor same customer.

Choose your poison(s) ... they all have some. Even those who benchmark as optical perfection ... size, weight, cost and handling are different forms of quid pro quo.



Aug 19, 2020 at 07:27 PM
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p.38 #14 · Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary Review


Alien Invasion

SIGMA fp 45mm F2.8 DG DN Contemporary 019 f4.5 FP000775



Sep 09, 2020 at 05:31 PM
philip_pj
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p.38 #15 · Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary Review


'one man's imperfection is another man's gold.'

It sounds persuasive, but I disagree. Subject matter and composition aside, the paramount criterion for an image is impact. How viewers respond to it emotionally, how much they appreciate its qualities (like, say, originality for the one above this post) how long they look at it, etc.

So one can practise this regime: show a set of images to several (photographically literate) people and mark down what they think. I do this with many lens comparos I find online, of 2+ lenses of the same subject, same time. The result is usually a consensus, due to the advantage provided by the more 'impactful lens'.



Sep 10, 2020 at 03:00 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.38 #16 · Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary Review


I've purchased a brand new Sigma 45/2.8C. Sold mine a while back out of frustration over AF-C accuracy but missed the look of the images this tiny lens produces.

Received it today and it's now my normal lens between the 24/1.4 GM and 85/1.4 GM. Love the rendering from all three.

Something I learned today is that if I take the picture as soon as the AF-C engages, it's usually accurate. If I keep the focus working on my subject, that's when it usually miss-focus. More testing on this is needed but I got most of my test images in focus today (18 out of 20) using AF-C on the A7R IV.



Sep 16, 2020 at 05:17 PM
httivals
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p.38 #17 · Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary Review


Fred - Have you sold your Voigtlander 35mm f1.2? Or when you say it's your normal lens, do you mean it's your normal AF lens? I'm trying to decide between the Voigtlander 35mm f1.2 and Sigma 45mm as my next purchase, and given that you've tried and tested pretty much every lens in the system and take great photos, I value your opinions/judgements/decisions. Thanks! Howard

Fred Miranda wrote:
I've purchased a brand new Sigma 45/2.8C. Sold mine a while back out of frustration over AF-C accuracy but missed the look of the images this tiny lens produces.

Received it today and it's now my normal lens between the 24/1.4 GM and 85/1.4 GM. Love the rendering from all three.

Something I learned today is that if I take the picture as soon as the AF-C engages, it's usually accurate. If I keep the focus working on my subject, that's when it usually miss-focus. More testing on this is needed but I got most of my test images in focus
...Show more




Sep 16, 2020 at 05:40 PM
Dave Sanders
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p.38 #18 · Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary Review


Fred Miranda wrote:
I've purchased a brand new Sigma 45/2.8C. Sold mine a while back out of frustration over AF-C accuracy but missed the look of the images this tiny lens produces.

Received it today and it's now my normal lens between the 24/1.4 GM and 85/1.4 GM. Love the rendering from all three.

Something I learned today is that if I take the picture as soon as the AF-C engages, it's usually accurate. If I keep the focus working on my subject, that's when it usually miss-focus. More testing on this is needed but I got most of my test images in focus
...Show more

I'm headed off to a friend's apple orchard this weekend to help with some work and generally lay about and drink/smoke a bit. I haven't been around many people due to covid fears so my Sigma 45 hasn't gotten the use it deserves. I'm going to bring it as likely my only lens this trip, hopefully I'll have something to post. I'll try the AF-C trick you mention as well.



Sep 16, 2020 at 05:42 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.38 #19 · Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary Review


httivals wrote:
Fred - Have you sold your Voigtlander 35mm f1.2? Or when you say it's your normal lens, do you mean it's your normal AF lens? I'm trying to decide between the Voigtlander 35mm f1.2 and Sigma 45mm as my next purchase, and given that you've tried and tested pretty much every lens in the system and take great photos, I value your opinions/judgements/decisions. Thanks! Howard



No, I love the CV 35/1.2 SE. My only AF lenses are the 24GM, 45C and 85GM.

I pair my CV 35/1.2 with the CV 75/1.5 (sometimes bring the CV 21/3.5 as well)



Sep 16, 2020 at 05:48 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.38 #20 · Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary Review


Dave Sanders wrote:
I'm headed off to a friend's apple orchard this weekend to help with some work and generally lay about and drink/smoke a bit. I haven't been around many people due to covid fears so my Sigma 45 hasn't gotten the use it deserves. I'm going to bring it as likely my only lens this trip, hopefully I'll have something to post. I'll try the AF-C trick you mention as well.


Try that, I got great accuracy today. Didn't try in low light though.
Fred



Sep 16, 2020 at 05:50 PM
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