Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton Review
p.27 #1Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton Review
..from today ;-)
First Rays of Sun at the pond | Venekotensee by H. Wiedow, auf Flickr
First Rays of Sun at the pond | Venekotensee by H. Wiedow, auf FlickrJan 16, 2020 at 05:40 AM
p.27 #2Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton Review
Nice pictures, thanks for showing.
@Hardcore: Great pictures, especially in the Nikon threads. I like your style.
I have now bought the Voigtlander and tested it (on my Sony A7RIII) against my Loxia 21mm. My Loxia is a good one that I got from Zeiss after complaining that there were so many bad copies on the market. In my experience it is really difficult to find a Zeiss that is equally sharp against infinity (objects more than 100/200 meters away) from the left to the right edge of the image (not corners), e.g. when photographing a distant mountain range. Most of the Zeiss Loxia 21mm lenses seem to have their infinity stop too early. This is something that many reviewers do not notice because they do not test the lenses in suitable, even very distant sceneries that can show these problems.
My third Voigtlander is now superior to my Zeiss, actually over the whole frame (at least 90 percent of it) from f2.8 to f8.
As with the Loxia, there seem to be significant differences between the various copies.
My first impression in every-day usage is that the Voigtländer shows very different colors than the Zeiss, but it also shows very nice colors, you can see that also in the viewfinder.
Time will tell whether the pictures also have that certain something like the Zeiss.
By the way, the Zeiss is the visibly wider-angle lens.
@Hardcore: Great pictures, especially in the Nikon threads. I like your style.
I have now bought the Voigtlander and tested it (on my Sony A7RIII) against my Loxia 21mm. My Loxia is a good one that I got from Zeiss after complaining that there were so many bad copies on the market. In my experience it is really difficult to find a Zeiss that is equally sharp against infinity (objects more than 100/200 meters away) from the left to the right edge of the image (not corners), e.g. when photographing a distant mountain range. Most of the Zeiss Loxia 21mm lenses seem to have their infinity stop too early. This is something that many reviewers do not notice because they do not test the lenses in suitable, even very distant sceneries that can show these problems.
My third Voigtlander is now superior to my Zeiss, actually over the whole frame (at least 90 percent of it) from f2.8 to f8.
As with the Loxia, there seem to be significant differences between the various copies.
My first impression in every-day usage is that the Voigtländer shows very different colors than the Zeiss, but it also shows very nice colors, you can see that also in the viewfinder.
Time will tell whether the pictures also have that certain something like the Zeiss.
By the way, the Zeiss is the visibly wider-angle lens.
Jan 16, 2020 at 08:42 AM
p.27 #3Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton Review
I am a bit curious after seeing these gorgeous landscape shots where you guys focus be at. Particularly on the lens where is your focus at distance wise? 3 meters? My first time using it near 3 meters seemed to be bit too close to focus and did not get the background in focus in similar landscape shot with the sun in the frame.
Jan 16, 2020 at 01:47 PM
p.27 #4Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton Review
I find at f8 -f11 I’m just a bit past the 3m mark towards infinity. Split focus on the z6 works well for this.
sismailian wrote:
I am a bit curious after seeing these gorgeous landscape shots where you guys focus be at. Particularly on the lens where is your focus at distance wise? 3 meters? My first time using it near 3 meters seemed to be bit too close to focus and did not get the background in focus in similar landscape shot with the sun in the frame.
sismailian wrote:
I am a bit curious after seeing these gorgeous landscape shots where you guys focus be at. Particularly on the lens where is your focus at distance wise? 3 meters? My first time using it near 3 meters seemed to be bit too close to focus and did not get the background in focus in similar landscape shot with the sun in the frame.
Jan 16, 2020 at 01:53 PM
p.27 #5Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton Review
Ah good to know. When you say split focus, you mean focus stacking, one shot for background and one for foreground?
Hardcore wrote:
I find at f8 -f11 I’m just a bit past the 3m mark towards infinity. Split focus on the z6 works well for this.
Hardcore wrote:
I find at f8 -f11 I’m just a bit past the 3m mark towards infinity. Split focus on the z6 works well for this.
sismailian wrote
I am a bit curious after seeing these gorgeous landscape shots where you guys focus be at. Particularly on the lens where is your focus at distance wise? 3 meters? My first time using it near 3 meters seemed to be bit too close to focus and did not get the background in focus in similar landscape shot with the sun in the frame.Jan 16, 2020 at 03:54 PM
p.27 #6Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton Review
No, it’s a live view mode on the Nikon to be able to zoom in on 2 parts of the image at once. Great for confirming hyperfocal and if both near and far objects are both in focus . Hope that makes sense.
sismailian wrote:
Ah good to know. When you say split focus, you mean focus stacking, one shot for background and one for foreground?
sismailian wrote:
Ah good to know. When you say split focus, you mean focus stacking, one shot for background and one for foreground?
Hardcore wrote
I find at f8 -f11 I’m just a bit past the 3m mark towards infinity. Split focus on the z6 works well for this.sismailian wrote
I am a bit curious after seeing these gorgeous landscape shots where you guys focus be at. Particularly on the lens where is your focus at distance wise? 3 meters? My first time using it near 3 meters seemed to be bit too close to focus and did not get the background in focus in similar landscape shot with the sun in the frame.Jan 16, 2020 at 06:07 PM
p.27 #7Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton Review
Hardcore wrote:
No, it’s a live view mode on the Nikon to be able to zoom in on 2 parts of the image at once. Great for confirming hyperfocal and if both near and far objects are both in focus . Hope that makes sense.
I can imagine that Nikon Z6 split focus is also very practical when applying tilt with tilt shift lenses.
No, it’s a live view mode on the Nikon to be able to zoom in on 2 parts of the image at once. Great for confirming hyperfocal and if both near and far objects are both in focus . Hope that makes sense.
sismailian wrote
Ah good to know. When you say split focus, you mean focus stacking, one shot for background and one for foreground?Hardcore wrote
I find at f8 -f11 I’m just a bit past the 3m mark towards infinity. Split focus on the z6 works well for this.sismailian wrote
I am a bit curious after seeing these gorgeous landscape shots where you guys focus be at. Particularly on the lens where is your focus at distance wise? 3 meters? My first time using it near 3 meters seemed to be bit too close to focus and did not get the background in focus in similar landscape shot with the sun in the frame.I can imagine that Nikon Z6 split focus is also very practical when applying tilt with tilt shift lenses.
Jan 16, 2020 at 06:40 PM
p.27 #8Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton Review
sismailian wrote:
I am a bit curious after seeing these gorgeous landscape shots where you guys focus be at. Particularly on the lens where is your focus at distance wise? 3 meters? My first time using it near 3 meters seemed to be bit too close to focus and did not get the background in focus in similar landscape shot with the sun in the frame.
Frankly I think that hyperfocal focussing, or in general relying on DOF to get everything sharp, is often a mistake.
Generally speaking a landscape shot has some kind of focal thing. Focus on that. In many cases, most of it will be at infinity. So focus on infinity and let the foreground if there is any soften a little. Better that than a random place being the point of best focus.
If there is a piece of significant foreground interest, focus on that; better it's crisp, and the infinity component a touch less, than, again, neither is optimal which is what hyperfocal focussing often achieves.
And if you really really need a foreground and BG element both maximally sharp, focus stacking is your friend.
I am a bit curious after seeing these gorgeous landscape shots where you guys focus be at. Particularly on the lens where is your focus at distance wise? 3 meters? My first time using it near 3 meters seemed to be bit too close to focus and did not get the background in focus in similar landscape shot with the sun in the frame.
Frankly I think that hyperfocal focussing, or in general relying on DOF to get everything sharp, is often a mistake.
Generally speaking a landscape shot has some kind of focal thing. Focus on that. In many cases, most of it will be at infinity. So focus on infinity and let the foreground if there is any soften a little. Better that than a random place being the point of best focus.
If there is a piece of significant foreground interest, focus on that; better it's crisp, and the infinity component a touch less, than, again, neither is optimal which is what hyperfocal focussing often achieves.
And if you really really need a foreground and BG element both maximally sharp, focus stacking is your friend.
Jan 16, 2020 at 07:03 PM
p.27 #9Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton Review
Awesome thanks for the info. That's a really cool feature to have the split focus 😁 I gotta experiment a bit!
Jan 16, 2020 at 07:07 PM
p.27 #10Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton Review
DavidBM wrote:
Frankly I think that hyperfocal focussing, or in general relying on DOF to get everything sharp, is often a mistake.
Generally speaking a landscape shot has some kind of focal thing. Focus on that. In many cases, most of it will be at infinity. So focus on infinity and let the foreground if there is any soften a little. Better that than a random place being the point of best focus.
If there is a piece of significant foreground interest, focus on that; better it's crisp, and the infinity component a touch less, than, again, neither is optimal which is what hyperfocal...Show more →
I have found that when shooting at F8 - F11 you can pull focus back from infinity quite a bit before losing any sharpness at infinity. To each their own and what may work for some may not work for others but if I can, I'd rather shoot hyperlocal and get one shot with reasonably good sharpness vs shoot multiple focus and have to deal with movement and more post processing.
sismailian wrote
I am a bit curious after seeing these gorgeous landscape shots where you guys focus be at. Particularly on the lens where is your focus at distance wise? 3 meters? My first time using it near 3 meters seemed to be bit too close to focus and did not get the background in focus in similar landscape shot with the sun in the frame.Generally speaking a landscape shot has some kind of focal thing. Focus on that. In many cases, most of it will be at infinity. So focus on infinity and let the foreground if there is any soften a little. Better that than a random place being the point of best focus.
If there is a piece of significant foreground interest, focus on that; better it's crisp, and the infinity component a touch less, than, again, neither is optimal which is what hyperfocal...Show more →
I have found that when shooting at F8 - F11 you can pull focus back from infinity quite a bit before losing any sharpness at infinity. To each their own and what may work for some may not work for others but if I can, I'd rather shoot hyperlocal and get one shot with reasonably good sharpness vs shoot multiple focus and have to deal with movement and more post processing.
Jan 16, 2020 at 08:32 PM
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p.27 #11Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton Review
Hardcore wrote:
Frankly I think that hyperfocal focussing, or in general relying on DOF to get everything sharp, is often a mistake.
Generally speaking a landscape shot has some kind of focal thing. Focus on that. In many cases, most of it will be at infinity. So focus on infinity and let the foreground if there is any soften a little. Better that than a random place being the point of best focus.
If there is a piece of significant foreground interest, focus on that; better it's crisp, and the infinity component a touch less, than, again, neither is optimal which is what hyperfocal focussing often achieves.
And if you really really need a foreground and BG element both maximally sharp, focus stacking is your friend.I have found that when shooting at F8 - F11 you can pull focus back from infinity quite a bit before losing any sharpness at infinity. To each their own and what may work for some may not work for others but if I can, I'd rather shoot hyperlocal and get one shot with reasonably good sharpness vs shoot multiple focus and have to deal with movement and more post processing.
Fair enough; of course by shooting at F8-11 you are, with most lenses, losing a little sharpness due to diffraction (and while you don't lose much sharpness by pulling back, you certainly lose some.)
But are either of these things significant enough to matter? Well, for many viewing sizes of finished images, no. And whatever workflow gets you the best images is a better workflow than the one which gets you the greatest sharpness at the expense of images!
DavidBM wrote
sismailian wrote
I am a bit curious after seeing these gorgeous landscape shots where you guys focus be at. Particularly on the lens where is your focus at distance wise? 3 meters? My first time using it near 3 meters seemed to be bit too close to focus and did not get the background in focus in similar landscape shot with the sun in the frame.Generally speaking a landscape shot has some kind of focal thing. Focus on that. In many cases, most of it will be at infinity. So focus on infinity and let the foreground if there is any soften a little. Better that than a random place being the point of best focus.
If there is a piece of significant foreground interest, focus on that; better it's crisp, and the infinity component a touch less, than, again, neither is optimal which is what hyperfocal focussing often achieves.
And if you really really need a foreground and BG element both maximally sharp, focus stacking is your friend.
Fair enough; of course by shooting at F8-11 you are, with most lenses, losing a little sharpness due to diffraction (and while you don't lose much sharpness by pulling back, you certainly lose some.)
But are either of these things significant enough to matter? Well, for many viewing sizes of finished images, no. And whatever workflow gets you the best images is a better workflow than the one which gets you the greatest sharpness at the expense of images!
Jan 16, 2020 at 09:25 PM
p.27 #12Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton Review
Cosina Co., Ltd. will launch the Voigtlender interchangeable lens "NOKTON 21mm F1.4 Aspherical VM" in February. The lens configuration is basically the same as the E-mount version, but the VM-mount version is optimized for Leica M Digital image sensors. The suggested retail price is 150,000 yen excluding tax.
https://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1229110.html
https://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1229110.html
Jan 19, 2020 at 08:57 PM
p.27 #13Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton Review
serhan_ wrote:
Cosina Co., Ltd. will launch the Voigtlender interchangeable lens "NOKTON 21mm F1.4 Aspherical VM" in February. The lens configuration is basically the same as the E-mount version, but the VM-mount version is optimized for Leica M Digital image sensors. The suggested retail price is 150,000 yen excluding tax.
https://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1229110.html
Product page was added in Cosina's website:
http://www.cosina.co.jp/seihin/voigtlander/vm-mount/vm-21mm1_4/index.html
Street price (ref Map Camera) is 133200 yen (including 10% tax):
https://www.mapcamera.com/item/4530076132399
It's slightly less than the E-mount version.
According to product description it includes the "floating element design" same as E-mount which I think Cosina hasn't done before with any of their VM lenses.
Cosina Co., Ltd. will launch the Voigtlender interchangeable lens "NOKTON 21mm F1.4 Aspherical VM" in February. The lens configuration is basically the same as the E-mount version, but the VM-mount version is optimized for Leica M Digital image sensors. The suggested retail price is 150,000 yen excluding tax.
https://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1229110.html
Product page was added in Cosina's website:
http://www.cosina.co.jp/seihin/voigtlander/vm-mount/vm-21mm1_4/index.html
Street price (ref Map Camera) is 133200 yen (including 10% tax):
https://www.mapcamera.com/item/4530076132399
It's slightly less than the E-mount version.
According to product description it includes the "floating element design" same as E-mount which I think Cosina hasn't done before with any of their VM lenses.
Jan 20, 2020 at 12:27 AM
p.27 #15Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton Review
Keep posting, Hardcore, this lens is on my shortlist.
Hardcore wrote:
Morning sunrise
Hardcore wrote:
Morning sunrise
Jan 20, 2020 at 11:18 AM
p.27 #16Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton Review
Anyone able to suggest a filter system for use with this lens? I like the look of the Nisi 75mm. Just not sure it would work with a FF 21mm fov. Smaller the better, and would prefer moderate price range.
Jan 22, 2020 at 02:50 AM
p.27 #17Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton Review
I got Nisi 75 and use it with my 21 color skopar - no issues so far... I am even considering a 12 or 15mm CV (shaving of the hood petals) and still use these filters - filter systems screw size is 67mm so I reckon any lens that has filter 67mm or less should work with no problems...
Jan 22, 2020 at 07:35 AM
p.27 #18Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton Review
Thanks Bobek, I'll give it a try.
Jan 22, 2020 at 11:10 AM
p.27 #19Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton Review
Juha Kannisto wrote:
https://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1229110.htmlProduct page was added in Cosina's website:
http://www.cosina.co.jp/seihin/voigtlander/vm-mount/vm-21mm1_4/index.html
Street price (ref Map Camera) is 133200 yen (including 10% tax):
https://www.mapcamera.com/item/4530076132399
It's slightly less than the E-mount version.
According to product description it includes the "floating element design" same as E-mount which I think Cosina hasn't done before with any of their VM lenses.
I wonder if the new M-mount hood will also fit the E-mount since they share the same 62mm filter thread:
serhan_ wrote
Cosina Co., Ltd. will launch the Voigtlender interchangeable lens "NOKTON 21mm F1.4 Aspherical VM" in February. The lens configuration is basically the same as the E-mount version, but the VM-mount version is optimized for Leica M Digital image sensors. The suggested retail price is 150,000 yen excluding tax.https://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1229110.html
http://www.cosina.co.jp/seihin/voigtlander/vm-mount/vm-21mm1_4/index.html
Street price (ref Map Camera) is 133200 yen (including 10% tax):
https://www.mapcamera.com/item/4530076132399
It's slightly less than the E-mount version.
According to product description it includes the "floating element design" same as E-mount which I think Cosina hasn't done before with any of their VM lenses.
I wonder if the new M-mount hood will also fit the E-mount since they share the same 62mm filter thread:
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Jan 22, 2020 at 12:31 PM
p.27 #20Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton Review
DavidBM wrote:
Frankly I think that hyperfocal focussing, or in general relying on DOF to get everything sharp, is often a mistake.
Generally speaking a landscape shot has some kind of focal thing. Focus on that. In many cases, most of it will be at infinity. So focus on infinity and let the foreground if there is any soften a little. Better that than a random place being the point of best focus.
If there is a piece of significant foreground interest, focus on that; better it's crisp, and the infinity component a touch less, than, again, neither is optimal which is what hyperfocal focussing often achieves.
And if you really really need a foreground and BG element both maximally sharp, focus stacking is your friend.I have found that when shooting at F8 - F11 you can pull focus back from infinity quite a bit before losing any sharpness at infinity. To each their own and what may work for some may not work for others but if I can, I'd rather shoot hyperlocal and get one shot with reasonably good sharpness vs shoot multiple focus and have to deal with movement and more post processing.Fair enough; of course by shooting at F8-11 you are, with most lenses, losing a little sharpness due to diffraction (and while you don't lose much sharpness by pulling back, you certainly lose some.)
But are either of these things significant enough to matter? Well, for many viewing sizes of finished images, no. And whatever workflow gets you the best images is a better workflow than the one which gets you the greatest sharpness at the expense of images!
Stacking comes along with some issues as well, especially with movement between frames.
Hardcore wrote
DavidBM wrote
sismailian wrote
I am a bit curious after seeing these gorgeous landscape shots where you guys focus be at. Particularly on the lens where is your focus at distance wise? 3 meters? My first time using it near 3 meters seemed to be bit too close to focus and did not get the background in focus in similar landscape shot with the sun in the frame.Generally speaking a landscape shot has some kind of focal thing. Focus on that. In many cases, most of it will be at infinity. So focus on infinity and let the foreground if there is any soften a little. Better that than a random place being the point of best focus.
If there is a piece of significant foreground interest, focus on that; better it's crisp, and the infinity component a touch less, than, again, neither is optimal which is what hyperfocal focussing often achieves.
And if you really really need a foreground and BG element both maximally sharp, focus stacking is your friend.
But are either of these things significant enough to matter? Well, for many viewing sizes of finished images, no. And whatever workflow gets you the best images is a better workflow than the one which gets you the greatest sharpness at the expense of images!
Stacking comes along with some issues as well, especially with movement between frames.
Jan 22, 2020 at 02:54 PM