p.1 #1 · Approx what do portrait photographers make...?
I'm curious what professional portrait photographers make after expenses? I certainly don't expect anyone to disclose their income, just looking for a ballpark figure. I realize it's highly variable so no need for a science project. Let's assume it's environmental portraiture, personal branding, business headshots, location work, no studio etc. No weddings and not the high end Peter Hurley's and Zack Arias's of the world or in markets with a high demand for actors/model portfolios.
My guess is not much and most doing it have access to a second source of income, doing it part time, semi-retired or barely getting by unless they are extraordinarily business talented and/or in a niche market.
The reason I ask is I have a lot of people suggesting I do this to supplement my retirement income. I've looked at what people are charging and can't get the math to paint a success story unless folks are getting an army of clients and I doubt they are. I live in a community of about 500,000 in the Midwest.
p.1 #3 · Approx what do portrait photographers make...?
I think you're looking at this the wrong way to be totally honest.
If you're trying to justify whether it's worth your time in terms of monetary compensation, then you've already kind of set yourself up for failure. There are so many variables involved, and honestly a big part of it is the buying power/discretionary income of your broader network, how personable you are, and ultimately if you have talent and reflect the style/tastes of your target audience. The photographers that stick around are the ones that do it for the love of the craft/art, because otherwise it's just not worth it. There's a huge difference in your own personal experience between a free shoot for a friend or acquaintance purely for the fun of it, and one that you're getting paid to do with limited time and with clients of shapes and sizes. I'd suggest dipping your toe into some free sessions with a variety of people, or perhaps charge a nominal fee with the understanding that you're still learning, and go from there. The back of napkin math of $500 a session times X clients a month etc doesn't work because you're dealing with a finite universe of prospective clients and eventually you will run out of people willing to pay for your services.
How headshots and personal branding sessions sit in a photographer's business portfolio is also highly variable. This idea of being a headshot photographer as a living is a myth for 99.999% of people, and in my opinion a pleasant fiction created by many enterprising photographers that decided they can make more money teaching and selling membership into fraternities like the "headshot crew". In reality, a working photographer makes a living from a variety of services that in my opinion should constantly evolve as your market evolves. I do corporate headshots, personal branding, commercial projects, occasional editorial assignment, catalog work, a few weddings (primarily because it's not something I really enjoy doing), and occasional event and architectural/real estate work. I also do marketing consulting every once in a while, as my previous career was in advertising and marketing, and that's proved to be synergistic with the commercial photography side of my business.
If you want to build a business, you should still absolutely think about time and expenses of course, but nowadays I tend to see headshots as basically the lower margin product that begins a client relationship. It's the small luxury purchase a person makes that is a beginning of your relationship with them - opening them up to hiring a photographer for their kid's graduation, or maternity pics, of weddings, or maybe they need to hire someone to take headshots of their entire office and choose you because they had such a good experience.
The most important thing is having fun because honestly, if you're not it's not worth doing.
My advice is stop thinking about it, and just do it and see where the chips fall. You may find that you absolutely hate doing it for money.
p.1 #4 · Approx what do portrait photographers make...?
sungphoto wrote:
I think you're looking at this the wrong way to be totally honest.
If you're trying to justify whether it's worth your time in terms of monetary compensation, then you've already kind of set yourself up for failure. There are so many variables involved, and honestly a big part of it is the buying power/discretionary income of your broader network, how personable you are, and ultimately if you have talent and reflect the style/tastes of your target audience. The photographers that stick around are the ones that do it for the love of the craft/art, because otherwise it's just not worth it. There's a huge difference in your own personal experience between a free shoot for a friend or acquaintance purely for the fun of it, and one that you're getting paid to do with limited time and with clients of shapes and sizes. I'd suggest dipping your toe into some free sessions with a variety of people, or perhaps charge a nominal fee with the understanding that you're still learning, and go from there. The back of napkin math of $500 a session times X clients a month etc doesn't work because you're dealing with a finite universe of prospective clients and eventually you will run out of people willing to pay for your services.
How headshots and personal branding sessions sit in a photographer's business portfolio is also highly variable. This idea of being a headshot photographer as a living is a myth for 99.999% of people, and in my opinion a pleasant fiction created by many enterprising photographers that decided they can make more money teaching and selling membership into fraternities like the "headshot crew". In reality, a working photographer makes a living from a variety of services that in my opinion should constantly evolve as your market evolves. I do corporate headshots, personal branding, commercial projects, occasional editorial assignment, catalog work, a few weddings (primarily because it's not something I really enjoy doing), and occasional event and architectural/real estate work. I also do marketing consulting every once in a while, as my previous career was in advertising and marketing, and that's proved to be synergistic with the commercial photography side of my business.
If you want to build a business, you should still absolutely think about time and expenses of course, but nowadays I tend to see headshots as basically the lower margin product that begins a client relationship. It's the small luxury purchase a person makes that is a beginning of your relationship with them - opening them up to hiring a photographer for their kid's graduation, or maternity pics, of weddings, or maybe they need to hire someone to take headshots of their entire office and choose you because they had such a good experience.
The most important thing is having fun because honestly, if you're not it's not worth doing.
My advice is stop thinking about it, and just do it and see where the chips fall. You may find that you absolutely hate doing it for money....Show more →
Exactly.
The growth of a photo career these days demands adaptability to be able to create an income from a variety small niches.
If you are set on making an income then the effort needed is significant and prolonged to slowly build a solid a steady book of business.
p.1 #5 · Approx what do portrait photographers make...?
it's a dead market, except for the kool-aid drinkers. you can make more money by working as a grocery checkout cashier, and that is twice as glamorous.
p.1 #6 · Approx what do portrait photographers make...?
Possibilities are definitely there to make some extra income, but it's definitely hard to build out a business. It's also extremely hard to run a business in an area that so many people are passionate about i.e. shoot for free/discount or as a hobby. You have to be logical about what you want to do.
p.1 #7 · Approx what do portrait photographers make...?
Sungphoto hinted at something that I'm going to say outright. You wouldn't be starting a photography business, you would be engaging in the business of photography! Going at it from the perspective that skill will carry you through has proved fatal to many skilled photographers' businesses. You have to run it as a business first and foremost.
Think of expenses, equipment, revenue, taxes, licenses/fees, insurance and add all those areas into the cost of doing your photography. If you don't watch it, your business could actually eat into your retirement money. For example, you offer headshots for $99. Someone calls you up from a location that's 2-hours away to do a single headshot. Will you make money on that engagement? It's going to eat into most of your day, cost you money for gas, food and the lost opportunity for other business. Maybe, if they're the CEO of an organization, you make an investment, but as a single headshot, you've lost money. If you lose money, you have to make it up someplace else.
It's good to remember that photography skill is 3rd or 4th down the list of importance in a photography business.
p.1 #8 · Approx what do portrait photographers make...?
Need2Learn wrote:
I've looked at what people are charging and can't get the math to paint a success story unless folks are getting an army of clients and I doubt they are.
Sounds like you've already answered your own question.
p.1 #9 · Approx what do portrait photographers make...?
Do you already have a portfolio? Would the people suggesting this pay you for your services? If not then I wouldn't listen to anything they say.
I am on an email list for a photographer that I looked up a half dozen years back. Once every month or two they do themed portrait sessions at a location they've worked out and pre-book with most sessions being booked weeks out. There is sill plenty of demand, if your model and rates are right for your market.
p.1 #10 · Approx what do portrait photographers make...?
I’ve been doing weddings and commercial work for a while. I recently opened a portrait studio focusing mainly on family portraits about 3 months ago. I’m averaging about 6k per session in sales and have had 10k plus sales. The reality is, there is plenty of money to be made if you are offering an experience that enhances your clients lives and offers them the opportunity to invest in artwork that celebrates who they are and what they value. Most people think that the industry is dying because they are trying to make money off of shoot and burn business model. Good photos are a commodity these days. That is the bare minimum you need to be in business but it won’t make you money and differentiate from other photographers. Clients can’t tell. You have to give them something of value beyond the pretty photos.
p.1 #11 · Approx what do portrait photographers make...?
Need2Learn wrote:
The reason I ask is I have a lot of people suggesting I do this to supplement my retirement income. I've looked at what people are charging and can't get the math to paint a success story unless folks are getting an army of clients and I doubt they are. I live in a community of about 500,000 in the Midwest.
I was a full time professional photographer back in the 70s and 80s. I went back to school, got a B.S. in Computer Science and and have worked in IT since then. I am past retirement age and I'm thinking of hanging it up in a year or two. Like you, there are those who have suggested I get back into photography to supplement my retirement income.
Also like you I can't make the numbers work and that is based on experience, which I know is outdated. I still might dabble since I view any earnings as "mad money" and I won't need to rely on it to pay the bills. I'm also fairly well geared up for environmental type portraits, which really requires a fairly simple setup.
Beware of those who are encouraging you. This happens to me as well and I've found they have no clue about earning potential, marketing and the 95% of the non photography work it takes to make a profit. They also don't realize that at least down here we have more "professional" photographers than there are fire ants.
Oct 04, 2019 at 02:26 PM
AmbientMike Offline • • • • • • [X]
p.1 #12 · Approx what do portrait photographers make...?
I think you should set high enough rates and try it. Maybe start at a minimum of $100-200 (more if possible) for something basic. If enough people up-sell from there, you might be OK. Have your stuff worked out to up-sell i.e. prices for prints maybe 20x30 canvas etc
Be sure to figure out any pp or other time so you don't wind up making less than minimum wage lol. Ask me how I know
500,000 sounds large enough. I really don't do much people photography, though. How do you know that you aren't high end if you don't try?
p.1 #13 · Approx what do portrait photographers make...?
Need2Learn wrote:
I've looked at what people are charging and can't get the math to paint a success story unless folks are getting an army of clients and I doubt they are. I live in a community of about 500,000 in the Midwest.
It is incorrect to look at what people are charging and thinking you have to be as stupid as they are.
A real businessperson (as others have pointed out here) starts with first principles of costs, demographics, target market (people with wallets) and return on investment. Total costs need to be understood. SCORE is a good resource for you if you are unfamiliar with these issues. PPA also has great resources.
IMO a decent income can be made if you choose to be a certain kind of photographer and not just hopping on the crazy train of self-taught hacks thinking that glorified selfies are the bar.
The way to do it is target medium to larger companies for corporate headshots. Model your work on stuff from quality firms. Many firms are vaguely happy with their cell phone portraits but a marketing manager may want you to revamp their look. you mention you won't/can't do Peter Hurley/Zack Arias type shoots.
Baloney, a skilled monkey can do what they do technically. What they do that others don't is MARKET. Hurley gets good money for his work because people believe that it is the best. I am not saying it isn't good. It is great work but achievable by anyone willing to practice for an afternoon. Moreover, the competition charging stupid cheap prices isn't doing it. I can do a variety of pro headshots all day long. It isn't hard but why I get hired is I can reliably deliver quality that my clients love and recommend me to other companies willing to pay my fee. I am certain your area has companies trying to compete globally and want a top notch web presence. All the cool design in the world is undercut by poor portraits and the marketing manager knows (or should know that).
Family portraits can be lucrative in the Midwest (this a very regional market) and the PPA has a lot of strategies and case studies in creating a 6 figure portrait studio business. Bear in my it is serious work with a very real effort at marketing and outreach and performance on your part. If that is not in your comfort zone it may not work. On the other hand, a real desire to get busy can pay off.
If you want a relaxing source of income, this ain't it.
Oct 13, 2019 at 09:20 PM
mshi Offline • • • • [X]
p.1 #14 · Approx what do portrait photographers make...?
Sell your camera gear. Use that money to buy yourself a lawnmower, which is far cheaper than your camera gear. You will make more money cutting grass for others. If you're a woman and only want to work inside. No problem. Get some house cleaning tools, and you'll make more money cleaning other people's homes.
p.1 #15 · Approx what do portrait photographers make...?
story_teller wrote:
Sungphoto hinted at something that I'm going to say outright. You wouldn't be starting a photography business, you would be engaging in the business of photography! Going at it from the perspective that skill will carry you through has proved fatal to many skilled photographers' businesses. You have to run it as a business first and foremost.
Think of expenses, equipment, revenue, taxes, licenses/fees, insurance and add all those areas into the cost of doing your photography. If you don't watch it, your business could actually eat into your retirement money. For example, you offer headshots for $99. Someone calls you up from a location that's 2-hours away to do a single headshot. Will you make money on that engagement? It's going to eat into most of your day, cost you money for gas, food and the lost opportunity for other business. Maybe, if they're the CEO of an organization, you make an investment, but as a single headshot, you've lost money. If you lose money, you have to make it up someplace else.
It's good to remember that photography skill is 3rd or 4th down the list of importance in a photography business....Show more →
Whilst this all sounds like very solid advice for someone who's NOT a retiree it wouldn't, for example, apply to myself.
Expenses :
Taxes : well not applicable to me but for a retiree looking to make additional income on top of a pension and savings it could be zero or likely just very little.
Insurance : likely very low too considering the numbers.
Food : Actually I like to eat every day regardless of what I'm doing
Equipment : I wouldn't be buying anything I don't already have. Not many newbie retirees wouldn't already have enough equipment I imagine !
Licences/Fees : could you expand upon this please ? I'm not sure what it would involve.
Transport : assuming a car then this is the major expense and it's still not more than US$20-30 for a 2 hour return trip (assuming the client provides parking).
Opportunities Lost : none, unless I had a better option in which case I wouldn't have taken that job. In fact just accepting the job may open up other references.
Time : as a retiree it's my own. It's actually a benefit to keep active and involved !
So I'd probably make at the very least US$50 that I wouldn't otherwise have, from a US$99 headshot shoot
Most of that is light-hearted however to get serious does the OP want to start a business or as a retiree just make some supplemental income ? If it's the later the maths likely works just fine.
p.1 #16 · Approx what do portrait photographers make...?
Frogfish wrote:
Whilst this all sounds like very solid advice for someone who's NOT a retiree it wouldn't, for example, apply to myself.
Expenses :
Taxes : well not applicable to me but for a retiree looking to make additional income on top of a pension and savings it could be zero or likely just very little.
Insurance : likely very low too considering the numbers.
Food : Actually I like to eat every day regardless of what I'm doing
Equipment : I wouldn't be buying anything I don't already have. Not many newbie retirees wouldn't already have enough equipment I imagine !
Licences/Fees : could you expand upon this please ? I'm not sure what it would involve.
Transport : assuming a car then this is the major expense and it's still not more than US$20-30 for a 2 hour return trip (assuming the client provides parking).
Opportunities Lost : none, unless I had a better option in which case I wouldn't have taken that job. In fact just accepting the job may open up other references.
Time : as a retiree it's my own. It's actually a benefit to keep active and involved !
So I'd probably make at the very least US$50 that I wouldn't otherwise have, from a US$99 headshot shoot
Most of that is light-hearted however to get serious does the OP want to start a business or as a retiree just make some supplemental income ? If it's the later the maths likely works just fine. ...Show more →
You're 100% right. If you're doing it to keep busy in retirement or snag some extra lunch money here and there, that's one thing. If you run a business, regardless of age, you have additional expenses.
The following is specific to the US.
First, "retirement" is not always a rosy picture for many in the US. According to a recent Bloomberg study, about 48% of Americans over 55 have little to no savings and no pension. Retirement may not be an option or they may need to do something to make income to live. Translation - That means a significant number of headshots.
Taxes and licenses - You will have to file/pay federal and possibly state business taxes if you have a valid business and tax ID. If you don't have a tax ID and don't report income, you're breaking Federal tax laws. Some cities require business licenses to do business in that city. You may also need to register your business name with the state you're in. Keep in mind that most larger companies require invoices and a tax ID to show that you're a legitimate business, so they can expense your fees. They may want to pay you for a larger job and submit a 1099 form to the Internal Revenue Service showing that they paid you for your services.
Misc. legal fees - When you take money for services, something can always go wrong or if you get caught not reporting the income on your taxes, the fines can be considerable. You may need legal representation. There may be state fines if you run a business without a license.
Insurance - Many businesses will not hire you if you don't have at least liability insurance. You should also have insurance against equipment theft, etc. If not, you get to pay for replacing the equipment. Camera equipment gets stolen all the time. What happens if you damage a lens or your camera stops working. Do you have backups to complete the job?
Food - I typically eat daily as well. It seems to be a very popular habit!
Advertising - You need something, even if it's simply social media ( not consistently effective). You have to get the business from someplace. Some join the local Chamber of Commerce to network with other businesses. That costs $200 to $300/year to join. What about printing business cards, flyers?
Transportation - If you have to take a lot of headshots, that's extra miles on the car you wouldn't normally have. In the US you can deduct $.58/mile against your business taxes, provided you're reporting the income. Otherwise it's expenses paid with after tax dollars and no offsetting deduction on your income taxes.
Opportunities lost/time - If you don't need the money, you don't care. If you need the business that's a real concern.
I wouldn't consider head shots as a consistent revenue stream for a 2nd income source unless you go for the volume.
p.1 #17 · Approx what do portrait photographers make...?
@story_teller The USA looks far more difficult a place to set up business than the UK for example (costs almost nothing to register a business name at Companies House - you are then off and running)! Of course some of those other factors you mentioned still apply but it's still far easier it seems.
I'm au fait with the other incidentals having run my own businesses in 3 countries
Those figures for people not having a pension (or sufficient savings) in the USA are shocking. I was of course assuming living off a pension (as in most of Europe for example) and just adding a little supplemental income.
p.1 #18 · Approx what do portrait photographers make...?
PPA statistics over the years have consistently showed full-time portrait/wedding photographers netting an average of about $20,000 annually. I'm pretty sure, however, this includes a large percentage of mothers for whom photography is their only job, but who are not spending 40 hours a week on it.
There really isn't any difference between working professional photography as a retiree. All the business expenses are still there, and aren't really any less than they are for a non-retired photographer.
You may not need to buy a lot of primary equipment right now, but there is still a lot of production costs involved if you actually intend to have a business rather than a hobby that occasionally pays for itself.
And as it goes on, the even need for more equipment will continue, because you still have to compete with the part-time moms who have a substantial client edge in this business.
p.1 #19 · Approx what do portrait photographers make...?
I honestly have no clue whether a portrait business is viable in your area and what your expectations are in terms of how much money you want to make and how many hours you want to dedicate to this.
All I know is that I see all these scary stories on forums, but every time I sell gear on Craigslist it’s picked up by a pro photographer in NY and when I ask them how their business is doing, they’re positive. This in a market where supposedly nobody stands a chance.
