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Archive 2019 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)

  
 
AGeoJO
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p.20 #1 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)


mogul wrote:
To be blunt, please show me that I am wrong or is this a typical internet argument by a Canon lens shooter?


FYI, my gear of choice is Sony and has been for over 5 years . You have the notion that all Canon lenses are manufactured at automated assembly lines. It is true for some lenses, maybe even for the majority of lenses but not for all lenses. Not for their super tele lenses, for sure. And Sony is similar in that respect; they don't manufacture all their lenses by hand. That's all I am trying to convey.

Here is a link on the manufacturing process of the Canon 500mm f/4 lens, including the assembly by hand starting at about 9:00 or so:



Edited on Jun 07, 2019 at 06:35 PM · View previous versions



Jun 07, 2019 at 06:19 PM
DavidBM
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p.20 #2 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)


mogul wrote:
To be blunt, please show me that I am wrong or is this a typical internet argument by a Canon lens shooter?


In order to prevent this forum turning into an unreadable slanging match like DPR is sometimes it’d be good to avoid posts that aren’t about content but are attempts to impugn the motivations or credentials of other forumers. People can make their own judgements about that, and if there any quasi trolls around (blessedly rare here) ignoring them or sticking to the issues encourages them the least.

And if you are going to go ad hominem, check it’s not someone like @AGeoJO who is one of our most respected and helpful members on the Sony form, before you do!



Jun 07, 2019 at 06:34 PM
mogul
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p.20 #3 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)


AGeoJO wrote:
FYI, my gear of choice is Sony and has been for over 5 years . You have the notion that all Canon lenses are manufactured at automated assembly lines. It is true for some lenses, maybe even for the majority of lenses but not for all lenses. Not for their super tele lenses, for sure. And Sony is similar in that respect. Sony doesn't manufacture all their lenses by hand. That's all I am trying to convey.

Here is a link on the manufacturing process of the Canon 500mm f/4 lens, including the assembly by hand starting at about 8:00 or
...Show more
What year was that...Canon has lately bragged how they have moved to an automated assembly line (nothing wrong with that but if you read my statement, it goes to the heart of Sony being able to design lenses but may have trouble producing them.



Jun 07, 2019 at 06:36 PM
AGeoJO
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p.20 #4 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)


mogul wrote:
What year was that...Canon has lately bragged how they have moved to an automated assembly line (nothing wrong with that but if you read my statement, it goes to the heart of Sony being able to design lenses but may have trouble producing them.


Nothing wrong with that at all but something went a little bit at odds when you added "unlike Canon...". But David is correct, let's move on and go back to the regularly scheduled program. Thank you!



Jun 07, 2019 at 06:45 PM
mogul
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p.20 #5 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)


AGeoJO wrote:
FYI, my gear of choice is Sony and has been for over 5 years . You have the notion that all Canon lenses are manufactured at automated assembly lines. It is true for some lenses, maybe even for the majority of lenses but not for all lenses. Not for their super tele lenses, for sure. And Sony is similar in that respect. Sony doesn't manufacture all their lenses by hand. That's all I am trying to convey.

Here is a link on the manufacturing process of the Canon 500mm f/4 lens, including the assembly by hand starting at about 8:00 or
...Show more
What year was that...Canon has lately bragged how they have moved to an automated assembly line (nothing wrong with that but if you read my statement, it goes to the heart of Sony being able to design lenses but may have trouble producing them.



Jun 07, 2019 at 06:50 PM
1bwana1
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p.20 #6 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)


AGeoJO wrote:
FYI, my gear of choice is Sony and has been for over 5 years .


I have shot birds with AGeoJO and will cosign that he is shooting Sony glass and bodies.

He is also a gentleman in person and on line. Not prone to starting arguments.



Jun 07, 2019 at 07:06 PM
shadow9d9
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p.20 #7 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)


Steve Spencer wrote:
Of course, f/9 is not that different from f/8 (a third of a stop) and the A9 would handle that pretty well, but I am less sure about other cameras in anything but very good light. When the light gets challenging and you have an 840mm lens, getting fast shutter speeds for things that are moving or even for hand holding well is of course a challenge (that longer focal length will mean you need about half a stop more shutter speed to avoid camera shake when hand holding). So we aren't just talking about f/8 vs. f/9 then
...Show more

I guess that must be a shortcoming of full frame that I haven't experienced yet. With the G9 and 200-800 equivalent with F6.3, I have no problem with camera shake, and that 6.3 is the equivalent of f12 or more on full frame. I guess because it is so light, combined with the dual IBIS, it works. I hope Sony improves its ibis and implements extra stops from dual ibis in its future camera models.

As for the a7riii, which I also have, I would not be using the 200-600 with that. I was thinking primarily of the A9.



Jun 07, 2019 at 07:46 PM
Imagemaster
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p.20 #8 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)


If one is primarily shooting BIF's with the A9, Sony improving IBIS is hardly relevant.


Jun 07, 2019 at 08:06 PM
2xbass
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p.20 #9 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)


arbitrage wrote:
600/4 has less DOF than 400/2.8 at same distance so not sure how you get more subject isolation with a 400/2.8 unless you are close/at MFD and the 600 has longer MFD. If you can shoot at the 400's MFD (2.7m) then I guess you really don't need 600 anyways


In certain situations I run into the MFD of the 400 GM quite often. For example I recently spent a couple of weeks photographing foxes and in many situations I was too close because the animal moved too close or someone appeared unexpectedly and were too close. Also, I shot probably over 90% of those shots using f2.8 due to either low light or trying to blur out a distracting background or get a certain look. At a certain point in low light, the extra stop does make a difference. ISO of say 200 vs 400 is not a big deal but 5000 vs 10000 much more so. For sure there were times I needed 560 or 800mm but I’d just pull out a TC when needed.

I totally understand however that for some people the reach is more important and needed more frequently.



Jun 08, 2019 at 12:41 AM
Holger
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p.20 #10 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)


arbitrage wrote:
600/4 has less DOF than 400/2.8 at same distance so not sure how you get more subject isolation with a 400/2.8 unless you are close/at MFD and the 600 has longer MFD. If you can shoot at the 400's MFD (2.7m) then I guess you really don't need 600 anyways

That said, if I didn't feel the need for 1200mm f/8 (which I do), I would get the 400GM....


For the same magnification (with that I mean the object filling the same amount of space in the frame) the 400/2.8 has lesser DOF, as you are being closer. Only that makes sense for me, if you want the whole subject in your frame, not part of it.
Add the TC 1.4 and you level the playing field wrt focal length, possibly with a slight acuity degeneration.



Jun 08, 2019 at 01:52 AM
freaklikeme
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p.20 #11 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)


If these two are the ones announced on Monday, it's fairly brilliant planning. Get people excited with a prime a small fraction of shooters will ever own, and then give them a relatively affordable zoom that tops out at the same focal length. It's a solid right-left combo, even if the zoom won't take TCs.




Jun 08, 2019 at 03:22 AM
shadow9d9
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p.20 #12 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)


freaklikeme wrote:
If these two are the ones announced on Monday, it's fairly brilliant planning. Get people excited with a prime a small fraction of shooters will ever own, and then give them a relatively affordable zoom that tops out at the same focal length. It's a solid right-left combo, even if the zoom won't take TCs.



Why would people that will never buy something get excited? I sure don't. And if the zoom doesn't take tcs, then it is virtually the same as the current 100-400 with TC that anyone who was already interested in wildlife already has. Is it the right left combo of there is no point in buying either?

When I am home, the only photography that I can do is wildlife. If these two are completely undesirable to me, then the only market are the handful that don't mind lugging around a heavy and bulky $14000 piece of equipment along with a heavy duty tripod or people who apparently like wildlife but haven't already bought what has been readily available. So, I guess future buyers into the system?

For me, the whole thing is a big meh. The wait continues I guess for either a high end apsc, a nikon 500 pf competitor, or a super light 300 2.8 for when it gets dark.



Jun 08, 2019 at 07:52 AM
bjornthun
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p.20 #13 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)


In the grand scheme of things Sony’s system is still fairly new, and I guess they will cover ground, and a 600/4 and a 200-600mm zoom do just that. Now Sony has got full frame lenses from 12mm to 600mm+1.4x/2x TCs. After Monday Sony can work on filling in all the holes, but from then on all required focal lengths are already covered by at least one native FE AF lens. This is a milestone for us Sony E-mount users.


Jun 08, 2019 at 08:09 AM
AvianScott
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p.20 #14 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)


shadow9d9 wrote:
Why would people that will never buy something get excited? I sure don't. And if the zoom doesn't take tcs, then it is virtually the same as the current 100-400 with TC that anyone who was already interested in wildlife already has. Is it the right left combo of there is no point in buying either?

When I am home, the only photography that I can do is wildlife. If these two are completely undesirable to me, then the only market are the handful that don't mind lugging around a heavy and bulky $14000 piece of equipment along with a
...Show more

I'm not a Sony shooter but have been contemplating it. Having to use a 1.4x with the 100-400 does not excite me, but a native 200-600 does and will be enough to at least get me to test the waters with Sony. All day every day I'll take 600 at f/6.3 over 580 at f/8, especially when the later needs to have a TC attached.




Jun 08, 2019 at 08:11 AM
naturephoto1
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p.20 #15 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)


AvianScott wrote:
I'm not a Sony shooter but have been contemplating it. Having to use a 1.4x with the 100-400 does not excite me, but a native 200-600 does and will be enough to at least get me to test the waters with Sony. All day every day I'll take 600 at f/6.3 over 580 at f/8, especially when the later needs to have a TC attached.



Hi Scott,

First of all that should be 560mm with the 1.4X TC. We will need to see how the new lens will perform compared to the 100-400mm GM with the 1.4X TC. The new lens should be less expensive than the 100-400mm plus the 1.4X TC. You may prefer a lens that extends to 600mm without a TC, but the new lens will undoubtedly be longer and heavier and much less compact. For the purpose of travel, the 100-400mm GM will have the edge for excursions where space and air travel are involved.

Rich



Jun 08, 2019 at 08:17 AM
bjornthun
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p.20 #16 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)


A native Tamron 100-400/5-6.3 FE would, if it existed, be lighter and smaller than the Sony 100-400mm GM. The current Canon and Sony versions of the Tamron 100-400/5-6.3 weigh approx 1150 grams and take 67mm filters.


Jun 08, 2019 at 08:31 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.20 #17 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)


shadow9d9 wrote:
Why would people that will never buy something get excited? I sure don't. And if the zoom doesn't take tcs, then it is virtually the same as the current 100-400 with TC that anyone who was already interested in wildlife already has. Is it the right left combo of there is no point in buying either?

When I am home, the only photography that I can do is wildlife. If these two are completely undesirable to me, then the only market are the handful that don't mind lugging around a heavy and bulky $14000 piece of equipment along with a
...Show more

A slightly longer two thirds of a stop faster lens I don't think of as virtually the same, but YMMV. With regard to a high end crop APS-C camera, you do realize that an A7r III does basically double as one when you use it in crop mode. It makes a quite decent 18MP APS-C camera with a nice viewfinder, lots of frames per second and quite good AF. That will be even more the case when it is replaced with a 60MP FF camera, which I expect before long. That camera will be a 26MP in APS-C mode and will be pretty much anything one could want in an APS-C camera except having a stacked BSI sensor that would allow even faster sensor read out. So, I think that 200-600 lens could certainly be used well on the Sony system.

With regard to other lenses I do think we will see a smallish 300 f/2.8 by the end of the year, announced at least and available for the Olympics. I also think it is interesting that it looks like a 500 and a 300 f/4 are going to be conspicuously missing from the Sony line up. I think they would be very smart to make those lenses PF/DO lenses and that may take a bit more time, but I would love to see Sony make competitors for the Canon and Nikon lenses.



Jun 08, 2019 at 08:44 AM
shadow9d9
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p.20 #18 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)


AvianScott wrote:
I'm not a Sony shooter but have been contemplating it. Having to use a 1.4x with the 100-400 does not excite me, but a native 200-600 does and will be enough to at least get me to test the waters with Sony. All day every day I'll take 600 at f/6.3 over 580 at f/8, especially when the later needs to have a TC attached.



560 actually. And yes, it does sound better, except it screws everyone else who supported the system. That being said, there is a chance that the 200-600 will be decently heavier. I will be interested in the comparison between the 100-400 with tc and the 200-600. If the 200-600 is better than the combo with teleconverter, and it isn't much heavier, then I imagine that many people will switch.. which again, sucks for those that invested in the system. I just bought the 100-400 and tc in March.



Jun 08, 2019 at 09:00 AM
shadow9d9
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p.20 #19 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)


Steve Spencer wrote:
A slightly longer two thirds of a stop faster lens I don't think of as virtually the same, but YMMV. With regard to a high end crop APS-C camera, you do realize that an A7r III does basically double as one when you use it in crop mode. It makes a quite decent 18MP APS-C camera with a nice viewfinder, lots of frames per second and quite good AF. That will be even more the case when it is replaced with a 60MP FF camera, which I expect before long. That camera will be a 26MP in APS-C mode
...Show more

Why don't you consider it virtually the same? Close enough to me. One might be better, as we will see in reviews, but a 40mm difference and 2/3 of a stop isn't much. And weight/size matters too. If I need to switch, I will. It is just weird to have to trade monetarily in a downwards direction for something better. For similar reasons, I feel bad for Sony users who spent $10k on the 400 2.8 if they really would have preferred the new 600 f4.

No, for wildlife the a7riii is not good enough imo. It is why I bought the A9 afterwards. The autofocus is lacking, the tracking is lacking, and it has blackout. The a9 is completely silent and shutter shake free, great tracking, 20fps and blackout free. I would never shoot with the a7riii for birds. I've done it. I don't like it. It would work for landscapes, but for me at least, I am talking about birds in flight.

With the way Sony has gone about releasing lenses, I honestly don't see a 500 PF competitor in the future. Fingers crossed though.

It is funny, I have spent the past 2 days(I am on the opposite side of the world right now, so the news broke midday for me), what I would do with the 600 f4. I've gone birding with my friend who uses the d850 and one of the Nikon 600 F4s. It is just a monster and is always carried with the additional weight of a tripod. When something comes at an odd angle, there is just no way to adjust. It is cumbersome to say the least, even with a high end and smooth moving tripod. I could just move, crouch, etc, and he couldn't. Also, by the time he put down the tripod and moved it around, some shots were gone. It just goes against my personal style to give up mobility. I mean, I get that it works for some people, my best friend included, but I still have to shake my head(As I am sure people do when they read my posts!).

Edited on Jun 08, 2019 at 09:13 AM · View previous versions



Jun 08, 2019 at 09:04 AM
shadow9d9
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p.20 #20 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)


bjornthun wrote:
A native Tamron 100-400/5-6.3 FE would, if it existed, be lighter and smaller than the Sony 100-400mm GM. The current Canon and Sony versions of the Tamron 100-400/5-6.3 weigh approx 1150 grams and take 67mm filters.


Honestly, I'd like to see Tamron make a 75-210 or whatever numbers they choose that is super light compared to the large Sony GM. I'd also be interested in a x-600mm by them, but I don't know if they'll make one if Sony releases a reasonably priced one.



Jun 08, 2019 at 09:10 AM
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