Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       3       4       end
  

Archive 2019 · Canon Colors on Sony a7III/A7R3/A9

  
 
numbertwo
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Canon Colors on Sony a7III/A7R3/A9


Ok, after another user started sharing here the presets i'm making to make sony cameras more canonlike regarding colors, and some people were confused because that user didn't explain correctly how the profiles/presets worked, it's time for me to write the thread to explain things properly.

The aim of this, obviously, is to get colors somehow similar to those from Canon in Sony cameras. I started doing it for my old a7r2, and now i'm focused on my a7III. It is a combo of a color profile + preset, we need both of them:

- The profile/s (.dcp files) are a ported version of the Camera Standard profile developed by adobe for the Canon EOS R. I decompiled it with dcpTool, changed the camera name (to match the sony camera in every case), the white balance matrix, and the tone curve, and compiled back. For A7III, I ported 3 profiles already: One of them is with a fully flat curve (named flat), other one is with a surve similar to Sony Camera Standard (named v2 edit), and the other one has the original curve in the canon profile (named 3.1). For a7R3 and a9, only the flat profile is available (still, it's the one that works the best because I have more control over the curve with the preset).

- The preset/s (.xmp files) are there to match Canon Standard curve in the Canon EOS R, and the color from the machbeth charts provided in several pictures in imaging-resource.com. Working with the Canon jpg in one side, and the Sony raw in similar conditions in the other, I tried to match the sony raw to the canon jpg. There are many presets available, some could work better than others depending on the light conditions, etc. Some of them are very saturated, some are too pale... the last one I made and I'm currently using is called "Canon EOS 1R.xmp".

To install the profile, directly from lightroom it can be done in the profile list. Same for the preset. It's also possible to just move the files to the corresponding folder, there are a lot of links online about the paths for both presets/profiles depending on whether you're using mac or windows, so I won't disclose that here.

To use it, just select the preset in the preset list and it will automatically apply the needed profile. If you have an a73, there are 2 folders with different presets. If you have a a7r3/a9, only the presets for the flat profile will work.

In general, the biggest difference is in skintones. Sony skintones in adobe products are just horrible, and with my presets/profiles, at least from my point of view, they are so much better.

Please feel free to try them and let me know what you think.

https://mega.nz/#F!MFZSCQxL!bOlpdo44BJJTBqCAM1-wKQ



May 21, 2019 at 06:17 AM
numbertwo
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Canon Colors on Sony a7III/A7R3/A9


One "black and white" sample. Just applied the profile over the raw picture. Mix light conditions, night, different skintones, etc. automatic white balance in camera.

Adobe Color
adobe color by Juanma Herrera, en Flickr

My preset EOS 1R
eos 1r by Juanma Herrera, en Flickr



May 21, 2019 at 07:12 AM
milkod2001
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Canon Colors on Sony a7III/A7R3/A9


Good job, your custom profile has more natural looking colours. Would your profile also work for other than light conditions when flash is used?


May 21, 2019 at 07:46 AM
numbertwo
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Canon Colors on Sony a7III/A7R3/A9


milkod2001 wrote:
Good job, your custom profile has more natural looking colours. Would your profile also work for other than light conditions when flash is used?


Of course, it works in every condition. Check this sample, daylight outdoor

Adobe color
adobe color 3 by Juanma Herrera, en Flickr

My preset (1R version)
eos 1r 3 by Juanma Herrera, en Flickr



May 21, 2019 at 09:03 AM
Dj R
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Canon Colors on Sony a7III/A7R3/A9


would these work for jpg and raw or just raw?


May 21, 2019 at 09:11 AM
Tirpitz666
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Canon Colors on Sony a7III/A7R3/A9


Thanks for sharing, are they working only in Lightroom or can be used also in ACR?


May 21, 2019 at 10:08 AM
numbertwo
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Canon Colors on Sony a7III/A7R3/A9


Only raw.

For both Lightroom and camera raw.



May 21, 2019 at 10:26 AM
Dj R
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Canon Colors on Sony a7III/A7R3/A9


for jpg and video shooters, it would be easier to just dial in the picture profile in the body.


May 21, 2019 at 11:07 AM
Tirpitz666
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Canon Colors on Sony a7III/A7R3/A9


numbertwo wrote:
Only raw.

For both Lightroom and camera raw.


Thank you, do you think that it will be also possible to convert one of the dcp profiles to icc and see if it works directly with Affinity Photo without passing through ACR?




May 21, 2019 at 11:17 AM
milkod2001
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Canon Colors on Sony a7III/A7R3/A9


numbertwo wrote:
Of course, it works in every condition. Check this sample, daylight outdoor

Adobe color
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46983224365_8b054524d1_k.jpgadobe color 3 by Juanma Herrera, en Flickr

My preset (1R version)
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/40933215543_d65536f2b9_k.jpgeos 1r 3 by Juanma Herrera, en Flickr


That's great. Going to give it a try. Appreciate that you share this with us.



May 22, 2019 at 07:55 AM
maf27
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Canon Colors on Sony a7III/A7R3/A9


Thanks for posting these. How do I make this work for a6400?


May 26, 2019 at 06:43 AM
numbertwo
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Canon Colors on Sony a7III/A7R3/A9



maf27 wrote:
Thanks for posting these. How do I make this work for a6400?


A6400 and other Sony cameras in this link
https://mega.nz/#F!VEZUyIAR!d5KiTbk_4O7yX2MWdmE1yA

And this
https://mega.nz/#F!pExjQCjJ!x5_eKI11V_J3AmB0yPKq8g

The.dcp profiles are different in those 2 folders, if the name is the same please rename, don't overwrite. One profile should be the v2edit and the other the v3.1
All the presets made for those profiles will work, I didn't port the flat profile, so the presets made for the flat profile won't work. Also I didn't port the white balance matrices for the rest of the cameras so the white balance, outside "as shot" might be slightly off.

For the xmp presets, you can use those in that folder or I. The first folder I posted in the thread, the presets are "universal" and you just need to take into account for what profile (flat, v2, v3.1) are tuned.



May 26, 2019 at 06:52 AM
maf27
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Canon Colors on Sony a7III/A7R3/A9


numbertwo wrote:
A6400 and other Sony cameras in this link
https://mega.nz/#F!VEZUyIAR!d5KiTbk_4O7yX2MWdmE1yA

And this
https://mega.nz/#F!pExjQCjJ!x5_eKI11V_J3AmB0yPKq8g

The.dcp profiles are different in those 2 folders, if the name is the same please rename, don't overwrite. One profile should be the v2edit and the other the v3.1
All the presets made for those profiles will work, I didn't port the flat profile, so the presets made for the flat profile won't work. Also I didn't port the white balance matrices for the rest of the cameras so the white balance, outside "as shot" might be slightly off.


These worked great for me (I prefer v3.1 over the v2edit) - better than Adobe Color with Calibration adjustments. Never going back to Adobe profiles for Camera Standard etc.

numbertwo wrote:
For the xmp presets, you can use those in that folder or I. The first folder I posted in the thread, the presets are "universal" and you just need to take into account for what profile (flat, v2, v3.1) are tuned.


This part is not clear. I downloaded some of the presets you provided for me but since you don't have a flat profile for a6400, I am not sure which one to use. Anyways, based on my limited knowledge, these are some additional tweaks that are made after the profiles are applied - something I can do myself using the Basic and HSL panels.

Thanks for providing these. Adobe has completely messed up the camera profiles for Sony. I didn't have this issue with my Canon or Olympus cameras.

Best regards,
Venkat




May 26, 2019 at 07:55 AM
numbertwo
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Canon Colors on Sony a7III/A7R3/A9




maf27 wrote:
These worked great for me (I prefer v3.1 over the v2edit) - better than Adobe Color with Calibration adjustments. Never going back to Adobe profiles for Camera Standard etc.

This part is not clear. I downloaded some of the presets you provided for me but since you don't have a flat profile for a6400, I am not sure which one to use. Anyways, based on my limited knowledge, these are some additional tweaks that are made after the profiles are applied - something I can do myself using the Basic and HSL panels.

Thanks for providing these. Adobe has completely messed up
...Show more

You can use any of the xmp presets in the 2 links I gave you, and some of them (and others) are also included in the first link in this thread. If you just apply the profile, some colors are good enough but some others like blues or green are a bit off...

I agree adobe profiles for Sony are horrible and I can't understand how people don't realise.



May 26, 2019 at 09:16 AM
bwcolor
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Canon Colors on Sony a7III/A7R3/A9


Wow, I moved from Canon D series and "L" glass within months of the Nex-7 release. Lots of shortcomings using early Sony, but color wasn't an issue. I have had simple workflows since and have enjoyed the outcomes, but recently we have thread after thread bemoaning how something called "Color Science" exists and celestial Canon skin tones are superior to inferior Sony results. This non-subject is getting old, so hopefully the Ops efforts and other input puts this topic to rest. It is a non-issue for the raw shooter and if you only shoot jpg and want Canon colors, this is easily solved by moving to Canon, or shooting raw.
Most of us are hobbyists and getting end results to our liking is part of the hobby. For professionals, one camera line might provide a faster, or considering certain features, superior results.



May 26, 2019 at 09:43 AM
maf27
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Canon Colors on Sony a7III/A7R3/A9


bwcolor wrote:
... and celestial Canon skin tones are superior to inferior Sony results.


I don't think you understand the discussion on this thread - it's not that the Canon colors are superior to Sony. It's about Adobe's incompetence is providing an accurate profile that will simulate the colors produced by Sony. The profiles that they provide for Canon (and Olympus) seem to match the JPG rendering of those cameras. I hope this clarifies.




May 26, 2019 at 10:15 AM
GMPhotography
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Canon Colors on Sony a7III/A7R3/A9


maf27 wrote:
I don't think you understand the discussion on this thread - it's not that the Canon colors are superior to Sony. It's about Adobe's incompetence is providing an accurate profile that will simulate the colors produced by Sony. The profiles that they provide for Canon (and Olympus) seem to match the JPG rendering of those cameras. I hope this clarifies.



Don’t use Adobe products. I gave up on Adobe years ago. I use PS but not for color. I use C1 for all Raw processing. Have for many years.



May 26, 2019 at 11:52 AM
fadeslayer
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Canon Colors on Sony a7III/A7R3/A9




maf27 wrote:
I don't think you understand the discussion on this thread - it's not that the Canon colors are superior to Sony. It's about Adobe's incompetence is providing an accurate profile that will simulate the colors produced by Sony. The profiles that they provide for Canon (and Olympus) seem to match the JPG rendering of those cameras. I hope this clarifies.



A question: if sony colors in Adobe default profiles are so bad, why the heck you continue to provide Canon derived profiles instead of just making good Sony profiles to match Sony's jpg? It looks like you consider Sony's jpegs awful too.
Let Canon stay away from Sony's land for one time (it appears to be the worst fear in the world..)




May 26, 2019 at 11:56 AM
Jay Ford
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Canon Colors on Sony a7III/A7R3/A9


Damn near everyone hates Sony jpegs, myself included.


May 26, 2019 at 12:57 PM
Jesse Evans
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Canon Colors on Sony a7III/A7R3/A9


I think my favorite outcome for this thread is that some people don't believe that a thing called "color science" exists.

https://colorusage.arc.nasa.gov/color_science.php

https://library.si.edu/exhibition/color-in-a-new-light/science

Anyway, the profile that @numbertwo provided seem to be pretty nice, regardless of whether they do a better job of mimicking reality or Canon colors.



May 26, 2019 at 01:10 PM
1
       2       3       4       end




FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       3       4       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.