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Archive 2019 · Adorama selling returns as brand new items ?

Picture This!
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Adorama selling returns as brand new items ?

So i ordered a brand new Zeiss Milvus ZF.2 35/1.4 from Adorama. The package arrived today. The box seemed a bit beaten up with tear near one of the corners. The inner box also seemed opened and when i removed the plastic wrapper there was dust on the lens and the cap had already come off. I paid $1700 for the lens and it feels like they sent me a returned item without even properly inspecting it. Needless to say i am upset.

Anyone else had this experience from Adorama ?

Apr 16, 2019 at 07:51 PM

sirimiri
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Adorama selling returns as brand new items ?

This can happen with most any vendor. One could consult the "outragetariat" of the internet, or simply contact the vendor with a return or refund request at their shipping expense because of X, Y and lastly, Z.

Apr 16, 2019 at 09:18 PM

No Regrets
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Adorama selling returns as brand new items ?

This is unfortunate. You might as well take some images with before you return it to see if the lens lives up to your expectations. Then share with us your thoughts and impressions as I for one am interested in this lens myself.

Best Wishes,
Don

Apr 17, 2019 at 07:09 PM

ross attix
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Adorama selling returns as brand new items ?

Picture This! wrote:
So i ordered a brand new Zeiss Milvus ZF.2 35/1.4 from Adorama. The package arrived today. The box seemed a bit beaten up with tear near one of the corners. The inner box also seemed opened and when i removed the plastic wrapper there was dust on the lens and the cap had already come off. I paid $1700 for the lens and it feels like they sent me a returned item without even properly inspecting it. Needless to say i am upset.

Anyone else had this experience from Adorama ?

No. They have been in business for many many years, and are a stand up company.

I’m not saying posting this and mentioning their name would be ok, but If you had contacted them about an exchange and not been treated fairly, doing so would be more understandable. But to just start this without giving them the chance to make it right is lame.

Apr 17, 2019 at 07:24 PM

D.Hussey
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Adorama selling returns as brand new items ?

ross attix wrote:
No. They have been in business for many many years, and are a stand up company.

I’m not saying posting this and mentioning their name would be ok, but If you had contacted them about an exchange and not been treated fairly, doing so would be more understandable. But to just start this without giving them the chance to make it right is lame.

Even if they "make it right" it is still a major pain in the ass having to squander time with customer service and dealing with the delays involved. When I buy something new I expect it to be new. And if their reputation is so delicate it can't stand a little criticism then they ought to pay a little more attention to making sure they're not reselling returned items as new.

Apr 18, 2019 at 05:20 AM

jcolwell
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Adorama selling returns as brand new items ?

Sure, it's a PITA. I've been there, but I agree with @ross attix; the first step is to contact the seller, and wait for their reply (or lack of reply). It's really easy to feel righteously indignant, and want to tell it out loud, but it's more productive to not take it as a personal insult, and simply work to get it fixed.

Apr 18, 2019 at 07:03 AM

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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Adorama selling returns as brand new items ?

Well, two things.

Yes, both Adorama and B&H (and most likely others) sell as new items that have been returned under their 30-day return policy. This is a matter of record and, while they don't shout this policy from the rooftops, is IMO in no way unethical. They both have essentially meticulous reputations, although there are always exceptions.

However both, AFAIK, are scrupulous about not reselling anything returned as defective and repack the items they do accept back so they are virtually indistinguishable from new. Certainly you should not have received the item in the condition you described it and can't see how this was done intentionally. Yes, Adorama doesn't have the volume B&H has and sometimes I will get a brand new item in a really old, dusty (but clean) box, but that's about the extent of it.

I'm not saying what you SHOULD have done, that's for you to decide. And I can certainly understand why you are upset by this, it is a waste of your time and should never have happened. But I agree with most of the other posters: If you contact (had contacted) Adorama I'm more than sure they would have been very apologetic and replaced your purchase with a new item. I have my own issues with Adorama, but integrity is certainly not one of them.

Apr 18, 2019 at 07:39 AM

Donzo98
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Adorama selling returns as brand new items ?

Selling a product as new... that has been used... is unethical. I bought a LNIB lens from Adorama once... perfect deal... and it was indeed LNIB. I certainly didn’t pay the same price as BRAND NEW though.

I don’t care how good their reputation is.

I appreciate you posting it here as a heads up for others.

Maybe these sellers will realize that it bothers us.

Edited on Apr 19, 2019 at 01:27 AM · View previous versions

Apr 18, 2019 at 08:28 AM

JimUe
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Adorama selling returns as brand new items ?

i don't see anything wrong in the OP's post, it's very matter of factly. i would be upset as well considering the amount of $, the least they could do is make it appear spotless.

i also don't see anything unethical in treating returns as new, as long as it's in new condition. car dealers sell new cars fromt their new car lot that could have been test driven, clothes stores sell new clothes that could have been tried on in their change room. camera stores could resell packages that have been couriered to a paid customer that never opened and then returned.

food is where i draw the line though. even then it's a shame when if restaurants make an ordering mistake and when you identify the mistake without even touching the food, they'd throw it in the trash right infront of you, even though it's otherwise perfectly fine.

i've never bought anything from adorama, but they seem to have a solid reputation. maybe complain to them and get them to compensate you for the hassle of an exchange. like throw in a lens cleaning kit, rocket blower and/or spare lens caps, if the Milvus lens caps are still as lousy as the ZF.1 lens caps.

Apr 18, 2019 at 08:52 AM

hasenbein
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Adorama selling returns as brand new items ?

Anyone who thinks that there are dealers who don't do that obviously also believes in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

The return rate is SO high today, dealers HAVE to that if they don't want to lose significant money.

If what I got delivered looks perfectly OK and works fine, I keep it, otherwise I return it. Simple as that.

Apr 18, 2019 at 10:31 AM

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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Adorama selling returns as brand new items ?

@Helen Oster has just moved on from Adorama, so not sure who you would contact about this type of issue.

Apr 18, 2019 at 10:33 AM

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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Adorama selling returns as brand new items ?

ross attix wrote:
No. They have been in business for many many years, and are a stand up company.

I’m not saying posting this and mentioning their name would be ok, but If you had contacted them about an exchange and not been treated fairly, doing so would be more understandable. But to just start this without giving them the chance to make it right is lame.

Adorama is well known to sell returns as new. I don't see how the OP is revealing a secret. In my opinion, selling returns as new is only in opposition to being "a stand up company" based on ones expectations of getting returns and making returns yourself. For instance B&H has a much shorter return policy, and not surprisingly, I've received fewer items with obvious signs of use there. I still usually buy from Adorama because of their much longer return policy. One busy work week and filled weekend cuts me out of really testing equipment with B&H. I except some signs on gear occasionally from Adorama, because I expect to return items myself.

Apr 18, 2019 at 12:04 PM

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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Adorama selling returns as brand new items ?

If people go into a local camera dealer shop and try out lenses, that shop will probably not sell these items as used products later on. I'd expect any decent photo equipment dealer to clean tested items and check for possible malfunction.

Apr 18, 2019 at 12:55 PM

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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Adorama selling returns as brand new items ?

I personally do not think it is ethical to sell a 'returned' or 'shop soiled' item as 'brand new'. Here in Australia it's not possible to return items unless faulty (correct me if I'm wrong or if there are stores in Oz that allow otherwise) so this isn't something I've personally encountered here. If i pay for a brand new item i expect the last person to have touched it to be someone in the overseas sweatshop that made it, not someone who used Freds decentering test and rejected it.

A 'returned' item is a used item, how can it be anything else, and should be described and priced accordingly.

'Shop soiled' items are typically sold at a discount here.

Apr 18, 2019 at 05:42 PM

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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Adorama selling returns as brand new items ?

If an item has been used for 28 days then returned without visible defects, it’s certainly not “new”, and shouldn’t be sold as such. Allowing sellers to “make it right” is not applicable here as the store’s policy is the thing at issue. It wouldn’t be a big deal if lenses and cameras didn’t cost several thousand dollars. It’s the same policy here at FM, if you use an item, you shouldn’t sell it as “new” but instead “like new” for a discount.

If it was a Sony, it could have had thousands of shutter actuations but still have the appearance of being unused.

When I buy Leica, I don’t use either big store, but instead a Leica store so you can confirm the item has never been used. It’s especially critical as the Leica boxes are never sealed from the factory.

Apr 18, 2019 at 07:41 PM

AcuteShadows
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Adorama selling returns as brand new items ?

NRKStudio wrote:
If an item has been used for 28 days then returned without visible defects, it’s certainly not “new”, and shouldn’t be sold as such. Allowing sellers to “make it right” is not applicable here as the store’s policy is the thing at issue. It wouldn’t be a big deal if lenses and cameras didn’t cost several thousand dollars. It’s the same policy here at FM, if you use an item, you shouldn’t sell it as “new” but instead “like new” for a discount.

If it was a Sony, it could have had thousands of shutter actuations but still have the...Show more →

Adorama says "Returned or exchanged products must be in brand new, mint condition". I don't know how this applies to some items, e.g. cameras. You cannot test cameras meaningfully without actuating the shutter. For me, I wouldn't mind to buy a camera with 300 shutter releases as a new product, so maybe Adorama should set some more detailed standard. But insisting that every returned item must be sold at a discount would probably just result in killing the possibility of returning items.

Apr 18, 2019 at 08:08 PM

NRKStudio
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Adorama selling returns as brand new items ?

AcuteShadows wrote:
Adorama says "Returned or exchanged products must be in brand new, mint condition". I don't know how this applies to some items, e.g. cameras. You cannot test cameras meaningfully without actuating the shutter. For me, I wouldn't mind to buy a camera with 300 shutter releases as a new product, so maybe Adorama should set some more detailed standard. But insisting that every returned item must be sold at a discount would probably just result in killing the possibility of returning items.

Yes there must be a compromise, which some companies do take by charging a restocking fee on some items where a buyer can use an item undetected thus depreciating it. If an item is removed from its packaging and is not defective, then a restocking fee should apply. A return should only be made if the item is defective, not if a buyer realizes he doesn’t like the lens or camera because of its innate qualities. To buy a lens for instance just to try it out or test it for a week or so, is exactly the type of use which should make a lens no longer “new” and depreciates it. There are services for that, lensrentals, etc.

But if a lens or camera is tested and found defective or decentered, then a return should be free and the seller doesn’t incur huge costs in depreciation as the seller will send it back to the manufacturer.

When I sell here on FM, I never list a lens as “new” if i so much as mount it. I also expect the price to depreciate if so.

Apr 18, 2019 at 08:42 PM

JohnJ
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Adorama selling returns as brand new items ?

AcuteShadows wrote:
...

Adorama says "Returned or exchanged products must be in brand new, mint condition"....

Yes, "LNIB", which still makes them a second hand item so therefore should be priced accordingly.

It strikes me that in the USA (maybe elsewhere too) it has become the policy of stores to allow returns within a defined period as a sales tactic to encourage sales. But this has a cost (the devaluation of items which are used, tested and returned to the seller) that the stores are unwilling to bear and instead simply pass on to consumers who seem to accept used items as if they were brand new. This goes both ways for the consumer. As a buyer you get the option of rejecting a purchase for whatever reason (you might have bought 3 and picked the best one) and the cost to you is that you have to accept a second hand item at times (when paying for new).

Really, the stores should be reselling returned items as 'shop soiled', 'returned' or 'second hand' (yes, LNIB is still second hand) and at the correct price which should be lower than that of a brand new item. Just my humble opinion.

Apr 18, 2019 at 08:47 PM

Lee Saxon
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Adorama selling returns as brand new items ?

Some of y'all seriously think Adorama and B&H should lose hundreds of dollars every single time a customer buys something to try it out and decides it's not to their taste? Or that anyone who doesn't have a pro camera shop in their hometown shouldn't be able to try before they buy? That's insane. How do you think mail order businesses work?

Apr 18, 2019 at 11:08 PM

retrofocus
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Adorama selling returns as brand new items ?

JohnJ wrote:
Yes, "LNIB", which still makes them a second hand item so therefore should be priced accordingly.

It strikes me that in the USA (maybe elsewhere too) it has become the policy of stores to allow returns within a defined period as a sales tactic to encourage sales. But this has a cost (the devaluation of items which are used, tested and returned to the seller) that the stores are unwilling to bear and instead simply pass on to consumers who seem to accept used items as if they were brand new. This goes both ways for the consumer. As a buyer...Show more →

+1. I once had a similar experience ordering a tripod head from a retailer (not from Adorama) marked brand-new but when it arrived it was definitely used before (including a few scratches on the head which did not lower the functionality itself of course). I contacted the seller, and was offered a very good discount if I kept it. I accepted - pretty much I bought it for a good deal as used item.

Apr 19, 2019 at 06:08 AM

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