p.1 #1 · Sony 50/1.4 aperture stops down automatically at min focus distance like Batis 40mm
I recently tested the Sony 50/1.4 ZA Planar E-Mount and I noticed that when at f1.4 (wide open) the aperture automatically closes down when the lens is focused at minimum focus distance, 1 meter, 2 meter, and somewhat up till 3-4 meters. At longer distances and infinity, the aperture appears more open. Is this the same issue users experienced with the Zeiss Batis 40?
I tested this on an A7r3, in Aperture Priority MF and Manual Mode with MF. I saw when the Batis 40 performed in a similar manner, it was surprising to many forum users here. It seems like the Sony 50/1.4 ZA Planar behaves somewhat similarly. The light meter on the camera moves about 1 stop when changing focus from MFD to Infinity, and the shutter speed changes about 1 stop in Aperture Priority as well.
Great lens though, stunningly sharp.
See sequence of pictures below. Is this typical behavior with all Sony lenses or otherwise the A7r3?
p.1 #2 · Sony 50/1.4 aperture stops down automatically at min focus distance like Batis 40mm
Most of Sony f/1.4 lenses, like this 50mm lens, has an aperture ring. Initially, I used to use the camera to change the aperture of these lenses. But lately, I like the idea of using the aperture ring to select the aperture. That function disables the aperture selection on the camera. I believe the aperture remains the same at whatever and at whatever focusing distance if selected that way.
p.1 #4 · Sony 50/1.4 aperture stops down automatically at min focus distance like Batis 40mm
Joshua, yes in Manual mode and MF for me (and the lens set at 1.4 on the aperture ring), the aperture does stop down automatically when the lens is focused at MFD until about 3 meters or so. That’s how my testing above was done, and I just rechecked as well. So, yes the ring is set to 1.4 but the aperture closes down at MFD automatically in Manual mode and otherwise. I don’t have another Sony body to compare if it’s a 7r3 issue.
p.1 #5 · Sony 50/1.4 aperture stops down automatically at min focus distance like Batis 40mm
Update: the issue may not be with the Sony A7r3 but the 50/1.4 ZA as the 85/1.4 GM does not close down automatically at f1.4 (set via the aperture ring) and minimum focus distance
p.1 #6 · Sony 50/1.4 aperture stops down automatically at min focus distance like Batis 40mm
Are you sure it's just not the optics showing you more of the aperture than what's in use? I've had a couple of lenses where you could still see the aperture blades when wide open, but a hard stop circle near/at the end of the lens was what was actually forming the final aperture cutoff. Can you see the aperture blades interfering in the bokeh of the final images?
p.1 #7 · Sony 50/1.4 aperture stops down automatically at min focus distance like Batis 40mm
Now we know where Zeiss got the idea to do such a thing for the Batis 40/2. I do wonder if the 50/1.4 is the first Sony/Zeiss lens to stop down as it approaches min focus distance?
p.1 #8 · Sony 50/1.4 aperture stops down automatically at min focus distance like Batis 40mm
BlueBomberTurbo wrote:
Are you sure it's just not the optics showing you more of the aperture than what's in use? I've had a couple of lenses where you could still see the aperture blades when wide open, but a hard stop circle near/at the end of the lens was what was actually forming the final aperture cutoff. Can you see the aperture blades interfering in the bokeh of the final images?
I haven’t tested the bokeh, but I’m pretty sure it’s the aperture blades, as you can clearly see the blades physically move and tighten when you turn the focus ring from MFD to infinity while looking into the front of the lens. The pictures are taken from my iPhone but still pretty clearly show the condition.
Also, on the exact same Manual mode settings, the 85 GM does not exhibit this condition.
Also, the shutter speed changes on Aperture Priority. I face the camera at a wall about 3 inches away and turn the focus ring from MFD to infinity and the shutter speed changes from 1/125th to 1/160th (I think or faster I can’t remember). The light meter does change though from -1 to -1.3 in my test on Manual mode facing a wall.
I’m no expert though, let’s see what GM finds out and if Fred has a 50/1.4.
p.1 #9 · Sony 50/1.4 aperture stops down automatically at min focus distance like Batis 40mm
This feature might be a way to fight the focus shift of those fast lenses. Okay, it closes the aperture if you focus but doesn’t it actually take the picture at the closed aperture or does it open up for the actual exposure? I don’t know the answer to that.
The ironic thing for me is, I very seldom close down the aperture of my fast f/1.4 lenses to more than f/2. I did a photoshoot last Sunday and I took 700 or so images using two bodies, FE 50mm f/1.4 and GM 85mm f/1.4. Some 90% of the images were taken at wide open, f/1.4. The rest at f/2 and not a single one at smaller apertures.
p.1 #10 · Sony 50/1.4 aperture stops down automatically at min focus distance like Batis 40mm
AGeoJO wrote:
This feature might be a way to fight the focus shift of those fast lenses. Okay, it closes the aperture if you focus but doesn’t it actually take the picture at the closed aperture or does it open up for the actual exposure? I don’t know the answer to that.
The ironic thing for me is, I very seldom close down the aperture of my fast f/1.4 lenses to more than f/2. I did a photoshoot last Sunday and I took 700 or so images using two bodies, FE 50mm f/1.4 and GM 85mm f/1.4. Some 90% of the images were taken at wide open, f/1.4. The rest at f/2 and not a single one at smaller apertures....Show more →
Good question: just checked and at f1.4 it stays closed down for the actual exposure at MFD and stays open at infinity through the exposure (on single shot or hi+ mode; and 1/15 sec and 1/125 second).
p.1 #12 · Sony 50/1.4 aperture stops down automatically at min focus distance like Batis 40mm
Newtographer504 wrote:
I haven’t tested the bokeh, but I’m pretty sure it’s the aperture blades, as you can clearly see the blades physically move and tighten when you turn the focus ring from MFD to infinity while looking into the front of the lens. The pictures are taken from my iPhone but still pretty clearly show the condition.
Also, on the exact same Manual mode settings, the 85 GM does not exhibit this condition.
Also, the shutter speed changes on Aperture Priority. I face the camera at a wall about 3 inches away and turn the focus ring from MFD to infinity and the shutter speed changes from 1/125th to 1/160th (I think or faster I can’t remember). The light meter does change though from -1 to -1.3 in my test on Manual mode facing a wall.
I’m no expert though, let’s see what GM finds out and if Fred has a 50/1.4. ...Show more →
I know someone that just bought another 50 1.4 than me . But hey I’m not naming names here
Back when I had the GM 85 before the A7rIII and a firmware update I ran into issues in the studio because it was trying to focus stopped down in low light. That has since was changed but I had to sell it because of it and had not had the 50 or 85 since. Soooo I’m looking forward to really getting the 50 again. But this could have been Sony’s solution to focus at like F2 because of focus shift than going to working on the shot but I’m not sure of this but it does make sense if there is focus shift. Possibly reason your not seeing it on the 85 is it may not need to because of no focus shift. If the 50 does this than it would not surprise me much
p.1 #13 · Sony 50/1.4 aperture stops down automatically at min focus distance like Batis 40mm
One thing to try is take the lens off the camera so no contact with the body the lens aperture blades should be at wide open position. Note that than put back on and watch turn on of the aperture blades see if it changes. Than try holding camera at arms length and focus on yourself while your watching the aperture blades see if it goes down a little than open up on focus press
p.1 #14 · Sony 50/1.4 aperture stops down automatically at min focus distance like Batis 40mm
It appears that the behavior of the aperture is different on a lot of Sony, Batis, and other lenses for when the lens focuses or when it shoots based on focal difference, lens type, firmware version, etc.
Is anyone compiling a list of these behaviors. Is it posted anywhere? I happen to own both the 50mm f/1.4 ZA and the newer Batis 40mm f/2 CF and am aware of the automatic stopping down of the Batis 40mm and did some testing to understand its impact. I never thought to do the same testing on the 50mm.
I understand that focusing wide open and then stopping down to take the shot can cause focus shift if your going from f/1.4 to say f/4 or f/5.6 or even further but if you mostly shooting with a lens from f/1.4 to f/2.8 is stopping down really going to help focus even if the aperture is set to f/1.4 for example?
x
p.1 #17 · Sony 50/1.4 aperture stops down automatically at min focus distance like Batis 40mm
Fred Miranda wrote:
Very interesting and I never noticed that!
Do you have Live View Display: Setting Effect set to "On" or "Off"? Try both ways and see if the behavior remains.
I wonder if the iris closes down to keep the aperture the same.
At close focus distances, often the focal length reduces slightly in modern designs.
If the focal lengths reduces then the same Fstop (relative aperture, what people usually call just aperture) requires some physical stop down to a smaller diameter hole (absolute aperture)
If the iris didn’t change, and the focal length reduced at close distance, it would be faster than f1,4 at close distance if it’s f1.4 at infinity.
p.1 #18 · Sony 50/1.4 aperture stops down automatically at min focus distance like Batis 40mm
DavidBM wrote:
I wonder if the iris closes down to keep the aperture the same.
At close focus distances, often the focal length reduces slightly in modern designs.
If the focal lengths reduces then the same Fstop (relative aperture, what people usually call just aperture) requires some physical stop down to a smaller diameter hole (absolute aperture)
If the iris didn’t change, and the focal length reduced at close distance, it would be faster than f1,4 at close distance if it’s f1.4 at infinity.
I have a feeling this is likely focus shift correction. The 50/1.4 ZA does not focus that close and its MFD/magnification are only average.
I don't have a 50/1.4 ZA to test but perhaps turning Setting Effect to "Off" may stop the iris from closing down at close focus.
p.1 #19 · Sony 50/1.4 aperture stops down automatically at min focus distance like Batis 40mm
DavidBM wrote:
I wonder if the iris closes down to keep the aperture the same.
At close focus distances, often the focal length reduces slightly in modern designs.
If the focal lengths reduces then the same Fstop (relative aperture, what people usually call just aperture) requires some physical stop down to a smaller diameter hole (absolute aperture)
If the iris didn’t change, and the focal length reduced at close distance, it would be faster than f1,4 at close distance if it’s f1.4 at infinity.
That's a possible explanation of that phenomenon. I have been using this lens a lot lately and also at fairly close distance. Not at MFD but yet, less than 2-3 feet. In aperture priority, the resulting shutter speed remains the same. In other words, whatever amount of light the lens transmits is approximately the same and the background shows plenty of bokehlicousness. So, to a certain degree, it doesn't matter what the lens does physically, as long as the result speaks for itself.
p.1 #20 · Sony 50/1.4 aperture stops down automatically at min focus distance like Batis 40mm
pdmphoto wrote:
Now we know where Zeiss got the idea to do such a thing for the Batis 40/2. I do wonder if the 50/1.4 is the first Sony/Zeiss lens to stop down as it approaches min focus distance?
