fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Nikon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

       2       3              5       6       end
  

Archive 2018 · D500 vs D850 for bird photography

  
 
johnvanr
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #1 · D500 vs D850 for bird photography


So, I usually use my Canon 1DX with a 500mm f/4 for bird photography. I had and sold a 7DII because it got bad fast in low light and AF was inconsistent. I often use the 1.4x converter because I need the extra reach.

I decided to give Nikon a shot and bought a used D500 and 200-500mm lens. I’m impressed generally by that combo, esp. for the price. But like the Canon crop camera, I find the moment ISOs go up, I hate the noise esp. in BIF images. This severely limits the circumstances under which I’d be comfortable using the D500.

So, I’m thinking of giving the D850 a try, but I want to hear from Nikon shooters first how these cameras compare. Does the resolution make up for the lesser reach? Do high ISOs match images from top of the line cameras, like the 1DX or 5D? Is 7fps too slow and do you need the grip etc.?

Also, since I don’t see myself buying a Nikon $10,000 lens, is the high ISO on the D850 good enough to make up for the stop of light I would lose if I were to get the 500mm PF f/5.6 lens?

Basically, I’m looking for the best AF and the cleanest images (but forget about Sony; I don’t like using their bodies), also allowing for serious cropping.

Or should I just stick with Canon?



Oct 31, 2018 at 08:54 AM
Gary Irwin
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · D500 vs D850 for bird photography


The noise performance of the D850 is no better than the D500 at the pixel level. In fact in the mid ISO range (400-800) the D500 is slightly cleaner than the D850 (IMO). Also, the D500's AF is slightly better than the D850. The reason I chose the D850 and sold the D500 was because the differences in AF and ISO performance aren't that significant, but the advantage (to me) of having 45MP over 21MP is significant when you're not focal-length limited...both for cropping options and for IQ improvements when I'm able to downrez.

Edited for reasons of stupidity.

Edited on Oct 31, 2018 at 09:22 AM · View previous versions



Oct 31, 2018 at 09:04 AM
this is me
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · D500 vs D850 for bird photography


I'm not sure you will gain anything from D500 to D850. I have both and the D500 is glued to my 600mm VR w/1.4. The D850 is for everything else.
The only way you would gain significant IQ from the D850 is if you can keep most of the pixel of the FF. You mentioned you always have to use a TC for reach, this will nullify any benefit of the D850 sensor.
Check out the 500mm PF if you haven't yet. D500 w/500 pF is a very nice walk-around bird shooting and especially for large birds. I wouldn't bank on putting a TC on that lens if you're shooting BIF or sporadic moving small bird. The focus hunts based on my limited experience at the camera store.



Oct 31, 2018 at 09:12 AM
Chris Dees
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #4 · D500 vs D850 for bird photography


For me the D850 is a little bit better han the D500 in higher ISO (splitting hairs). The files of the D850 are a bit more forgiving. And as Gary stated 45Mpx (not 54 ) when you don't have to crop.
At 1,5x crop the D850 has about 19Mpx against the D500 almost 21Mpx.
With the grip you're at 9fps, that's quite expensive in the Nikon world (almost $1000), but I have a 3rd party solution (DTSE grip, battery, BL5 and charger) for about $250.
Have a look in the dedicated thread for the 500PF discussion and images.



Oct 31, 2018 at 09:18 AM
this is me
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · D500 vs D850 for bird photography


Another thing to note that the D850 viewfinder and focus points are not as optimal for BIF shooting since they don't cover as much of the frame as the D500.



Oct 31, 2018 at 09:25 AM
TimMunsey
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · D500 vs D850 for bird photography


Gary Irwin wrote:
The noise performance of the D850 is no better than the D500 at the pixel level. In fact in the mid ISO range (400-800) the D500 is slightly cleaner than the D850 (IMO). Also, the D500's AF is slightly better than the D850. The reason I chose the D850 and sold the D500 was because the differences in AF and ISO performance aren't that significant, but the advantage (to me) of having 45MP over 21MP is significant when you're not focal-length limited...both for cropping options and for IQ improvements when I'm able to downrez.

Edited for reasons of stupidity.


When you get your bird full frame the noise "particles" are smaller on the D850 compared to the full frame D500 image, compared at DX level then as Gary says the D500 might have a slight advantage the noise being of the same size.
I prefer my D850 over my D500 simply because you have double the bird catching area.
If you use auto area AF then I think the D850 is faster than the D500, but if you use group or 25 then it could be slower. With the D850 I use auto area with the D500 I use 3D, which I know is a little off the popular choice.

Tim




Oct 31, 2018 at 09:36 AM
JohnK007
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · D500 vs D850 for bird photography


this is me wrote:
I'm not sure you will gain anything from D500 to D850. I have both and the D500 is glued to my 600mm VR w/1.4. The D850 is for everything else.
The only way you would gain significant IQ from the D850 is if you can keep most of the pixel of the FF. You mentioned you always have to use a TC for reach, this will nullify any benefit of the D850 sensor.
Check out the 500mm PF if you haven't yet. D500 w/500 pF is a very nice walk-around bird shooting and especially for large birds. I
...Show more

That's pretty much how I roll ... D500 + 300 PF + TC ... D850 for everything else.

Like others, I know the D850 makes better images, *if* you can "fill the frame"; however, if you're cropping at all with the D500, you can rest assured that the vestigial results cropping with the D850 "to the same extent" means the D500 is the better choice.




Oct 31, 2018 at 09:44 AM
nashvillecsx
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · D500 vs D850 for bird photography


Mark Smith has an excellent channel on YouTube in which he made a video dealing with this exact question.




Oct 31, 2018 at 10:03 AM
TimMunsey
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · D500 vs D850 for bird photography


this is me wrote:
I have both and the D500 is glued to my 600mm VR w/1.4.

I think this is incorrect thinking as with the D500 full frame you have at field of view of 600 x 1.5 x 1.4 = 1260mm.
With the D850 you have 1260mm at approximately the same pixels but you have from 1260 to 840mm with increasing numbers of megapixels, so I suggest putting the D500 away as a backup.
You lose only one FPS.

Tim




Oct 31, 2018 at 10:14 AM
this is me
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · D500 vs D850 for bird photography


Nope!
The math maybe true if you can fill the frame. For me, I've never able to fill the frame of the warblers I shoot even with a DX sensor and all of that mm. And it's easier for me to track the bird when it's bigger in the viewfinder. Took the D850 out with the 600mm w/1.4 TC a few time and didn't think it was worth the cropping time.



Oct 31, 2018 at 10:24 AM
Photozack81
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · D500 vs D850 for bird photography


If I did not already own a D500, I'd spring for a D850 and never miss it.

However, the D500 is what is stopping me from getting a D850. It's just that good.

If you have neither, the D850 is a better choice if you can afford it.

It does basically everything the D500 can do (the files are roughly the same size if you crop the D850 down to D500 resolution) so you aren't really losing anything. What you gain, though, is the ability to do full frame stuff. Better subject isolation, and definitely better IQ if you can fill the frame.



Oct 31, 2018 at 10:27 AM
Christian H
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · D500 vs D850 for bird photography


The D500 is okay to about ISO 1600. Beyond that the subtlety of tonal gradations and color richness decline very quickly, particularly in low light. The D850 gives you an extra stop. If low light shooting at around ISO 3200 is part of your regular workflow, you'll be much happier with a D4s or D5, especially with an f/5.6 lens.


Oct 31, 2018 at 10:39 AM
JohnK007
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · D500 vs D850 for bird photography


If I could only have "one" camera, it would be the D850 ... since its filling the frame is peerless, and its "crop" is respectable and "close" to the D500 filled frame.

However, since I can have both, I use the D500 for birds, as it is *better* at the extreme long end than the D850, but I use the D850 for everything else, when I can comfortably fill my frame.

When you can happily fill the frame, the D850 is the choice.



Oct 31, 2018 at 10:55 AM
groob
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · D500 vs D850 for bird photography


I think we need more information before any useful advice can be given.

1. What ISOs are you shooting at?
2. What is causing the noise: increased ISO, underexposure at the point of capture, or post-processing?

In my experience, when the subject is properly exposed, neither camera produces overly-objectionable noise at ISOs up to 4000 or 5000. However, that is not to say the image is noise-free.

There is noise in the background that I have to deal with. But simply selecting the background and running Photoshop's default NR gets rid of it. Additionally, I have found with the D850 that I can pretty easily bring out noise in the darker tones during post processing when I shoot at ISO 2500 and up. I didn't notice that as much with the D500. I am still working out the best way to either prevent or remove that noise. Admittedly, some of it comes from me attempting to wring out all the detail that the D850 can produce. I routinely "push" the D850 files harder than I did either the D500 or D3s files. But, even so, the noise isn't that bad.

As to your lens choice, there is no need to give up an extra stop of light. A used Nikon 500 f4 VR lens only costs about $500.00 more than the 500 f/5.6 lens. I personally shoot the generation prior to the VR version. Its files look sharp to me! Of course, you give up the weight savings versus the f/5.6 version. I believe my lens weighs 7 lbs., and VR versions weighs 8. Mine is not exactly light, but neither is it unwieldy. I often hike or walk with it for a mile or more while carrying it by the handle.

To briefly address your question about autofocus, I haven't noticed any difference in AF performance between the D850 and the D500. I think both use the same AF system, and the D850 locks on and holds focus just as well as my D500 did.

As to the choice between FX and DX, people bring up the fact that you'll likely have to crop most of your photos with a D850, and then use that as a reason to advise against going full frame. But they never bring up the fact that, to get to a DX image size, you'd have to crop a substantial portion of the image. Indeed, there is quite a bit of ground between a full FX photo and a DX one. Sometimes I wind up cropping that much, but oftentimes, I do not. When I don't, I have an image the D500 couldn't have produced, even if it is a cropped FX image. Furthermore, when cropping (even substantially so), the D850 is a marvel.

Personally, I chose a D850 because it is an almost perfect camera for me. But that decision was based on the fact that I photograph birds, mammals, and landscapes. If I only photographed birds, I likely would've kept the D500. It is a special camera. Do I wish the D850's files were as noise-free as a D5? Sure, but that isn't realistic. I choose instead to work within the confines of the D850.

Finally, yes, you need to add a grip for shooting action. 7 fps is too slow. Just get a 3rd party grip and battery. The cost isn't prohibitive, and mine is better quality than I thought it would be.



Oct 31, 2018 at 11:09 AM
Thern
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · D500 vs D850 for bird photography


johnvanr wrote:
So, I usually use my Canon 1DX with a 500mm f/4 for bird photography. I had and sold a 7DII because it got bad fast in low light and AF was inconsistent. I often use the 1.4x converter because I need the extra reach.

I decided to give Nikon a shot and bought a used D500 and 200-500mm lens. I’m impressed generally by that combo, esp. for the price. But like the Canon crop camera, I find the moment ISOs go up, I hate the noise esp. in BIF images. This severely limits the circumstances under which I’d be comfortable using
...Show more

Stick with Canon.
The lowlightperformance beats the D500/D850 with a full stop plus the F/4 lens gives you another stop. (Not taking the better IQ of the 500 F/4 in account which is an additional reason to stick to Canon)



Oct 31, 2018 at 01:56 PM
JohnK007
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · D500 vs D850 for bird photography


Thern wrote:
Stick with Canon.
The lowlightperformance beats the D500/D850 with a full stop plus the F/4 lens gives you another stop. (Not taking the better IQ of the 500 F/4 in account which is an additional reason to stick to Canon)


Try comparing apples to apples.

If you're talking about the 1Dx, the D5 beats it in every way, shape, and form for low light.

And its AF acquisition blows it out of the water too.

If you want to focus on the D500, please, don't even bother trying to put up the laughable toy of the 7D II by comparison ... really, just don't

If you want to talk about the D850, are you trying to compare the 5DMK IV to this too? lol



Oct 31, 2018 at 02:02 PM
brian_sp
Offline
• • • •
[X]
p.1 #17 · D500 vs D850 for bird photography


JohnK007 wrote:
Try comparing apples to apples.


well then


JohnK007 wrote:
If you're talking about the 1Dx, the D5 beats it in every way, shape, and form for low light.


1dx = d4, d4s
1dx2 = d5




Oct 31, 2018 at 02:46 PM
johnvanr
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #18 · D500 vs D850 for bird photography


nashvillecsx wrote:
Mark Smith has an excellent channel on YouTube in which he made a video dealing with this exact question.



I saw that, but he ended up using mostly the D850. Plus, he’s spoiled with light in Florida. I also assume the birds tend to be closer there than in the North East.



Oct 31, 2018 at 03:04 PM
40Driggs
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #19 · D500 vs D850 for bird photography


johnvanr wrote:
I saw that, but he ended up using mostly the D850. Plus, he’s spoiled with light in Florida. I also assume the birds tend to be closer there than in the North East.


That is true. I'm from Missouri and the light here in Florida is much brighter in general year round and wildlife is significantly easier to approach since they are very accustomed to tourists.



Oct 31, 2018 at 03:16 PM
cohenfive
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #20 · D500 vs D850 for bird photography


I have two bodies, a d850 and a d500. My 'normal' wildlife setup is to have the 300pf on the d500, and the 500e fl on the d850, with tc 1.4iii at the ready just in case. They are both great for critters imo.


Oct 31, 2018 at 04:02 PM
       2       3              5       6       end




FM Forums | Nikon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

       2       3              5       6       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account