I went to my local camera store today with the idea of buying the new EOS R.
After testing it for an hour I just couldn't convince myself to actually buy it yet. One of the main reasons is the lag right after taking a shot. I don't understand why there doesn't seem to be any talk about it in the reviews. It's really annoying.
People say there's no blackout when shooting, which is true... HOWEVER: in one-shot mode the view freezes for a moment after taking each shot. This is much more annoying than a short blackout at the exact moment of pressing the shutter. The 'stuttering' of the view makes quickly shooting the next shot more difficult.
I found a video on Youtube that shows the issue:
Look at the clock stopping for a moment a short moment after releasing the shutter.
Could this simply be the image review after taking it? By default, I think it's set to 2 seconds. It can be turned off entirely, or half-pressing the shutter button will go straight back to shooting ready.
Maybe what you're experiencing is something else, but that was the first thing that came to mind. All mirrorless I have used do that unless image review is turned off.
DougVaughn wrote:
Could this simply be the image review after taking it? By default, I think it's set to 2 seconds. It can be turned off entirely, or half-pressing the shutter button will go straight back to shooting ready.
Maybe what you're experiencing is something else, but that was the first thing that came to mind. All mirrorless I have used do that unless image review is turned off.
Jochenb wrote:
I went to my local camera store today with the idea of buying the new EOS R.
After testing it for an hour I just couldn't convince myself to actually buy it yet. One of the main reasons is the lag right after taking a shot. I don't understand why there doesn't seem to be any talk about it in the reviews. It's really annoying.
People say there's no blackout when shooting, which is true... HOWEVER: in one-shot mode the view freezes for a moment after taking each shot. This is much more annoying than a short blackout at the exact moment of pressing the shutter. The 'stuttering' of the view makes quickly shooting the next shot more difficult.
I found a video on Youtube that shows the issue:
Look at the clock stopping for a moment a short moment after releasing the shutter.
I mention it in my write-ups here on the "Offical R Images" thread. I was shooting in RAW + JPG to SDSC II card.
It's a sort of stutter-step, or slight pause in moving subjects, rather than the EVF going black from mirror. It takes a moment to get used to it, but I found it no issue for stationary or semi-stationary subjects. Honestly, the stutter seems to hiccup for only a fraction of a second, but it is noticeable, and only affects the moving scene elements.
Certainly it is not a sports camera in this incarnation.
It's just Canon's way of hiding the blackout. Personally I find it infuriating and I'd rather have Canon give me the option to have a regular blackout. They developed that trick with the M50, and have now ported it to the R.
The Sony A73 and A7R3 have the blackout and then the "stutter" you speak of...and it's super annoying if you are panning and grabbing a moving subject. You almost have to anticipate where the subject is going to be and pan ahead. The a7r3 is slighly worse as it's EVF has a 120 frames/sec refresh.
Doesn't the "R" have a high refresh rate "mode"?..maybe that needed to be turned on...even if you are not shooting action.
That's completely normal as the sensor can either capture an image or create a video to feed to the EVF. The time it takes to reinitialise the sensor to either capture mode (so once to go from EVF-video mode to stills capture mode and once to go from stills capture mode to EVF-video mode) results in the EVF blackout. That is needed to use the shutter even if the first shutter curtain is electronic the sensor needs to be reset so that no ghost image from the last video capture ruins the picture taken...
charlyw wrote:
That's completely normal as the sensor can either capture an image or create a video to feed to the EVF. The time it takes to reinitialise the sensor to either capture mode (so once to go from EVF-video mode to stills capture mode and once to go from stills capture mode to EVF-video mode) results in the EVF blackout. That is needed to use the shutter even if the first shutter curtain is electronic the sensor needs to be reset so that no ghost image from the last video capture ruins the picture taken...
The sensor isn't responsible for creating a video. The sensor is always recording, there are other processors that decide what to do with that data, to AF, meter, to save it and/or to display it. Perhaps you meant to say processors where you said sensor?
the A9 does it without any blackout or hiccup, and I might not be correct on this one but I've read the stacked sensor is the reason.
I've shot an a9 for an evening during a sports event and no blackout, even with slow pans, is quite miraculous. So a high speed R camera should certainly have similar characteristics to make sport photographers enthusiastic
TeamSpeed wrote:
The sensor isn't responsible for creating a video. The sensor is always recording, there are other processors that decide what to do with that data, to AF, meter, to save it and/or to display it. Perhaps you meant to say processors where you said sensor?
No, I meant the sensor in the broader sense - because for me the readout circuitry is an integral part of the sensor and that governs how the sensor cells are reset, respectively the exposure is performed...
The reason you didn't see it in many reviews is all the things that would prevent people from getting free trips to Maui were left out.
The more I hear about mirrorless, the more I now understand why Canon and Nikon were so slow to adopt it for full frame. This just seems like another mirrorless experiment with bad low light autofocus, "laggy" performance, bad battery life, and giant lenses that obviate the whole point of a smaller, mirrorless platform.
I think in about 5 to 10 years, we'll see something impressive, but this isn't it.
evertdoorn wrote:
the A9 does it without any blackout or hiccup, and I might not be correct on this one but I've read the stacked sensor is the reason.
That‘s not fully true. If the mechanical shutter is used (and even the A9 needs that urgently for fast moving subjects or high quality RAW or under artificial light) then the A9 has the normal blackout. I wouldn‘t ever recommend using the fully electronic shutter with it‘s severe limitations which is prerequisite for the lack of blackout. A thing that Sony has touted quite big but as usual failed to point out the IMHO catastrophic drawbacks of using it, like the 1/60th of a second readout time for the full sensor...
As long as the sensor producers don‘t solve the readout time issue (for example with a global electronic shutter - which unfortunately takes a whole lot more electronic support circuitry per sensor cell than there is space for even in a stacked sensor) the mechanical shutter is indispensible if you value quality!
rek101 wrote:
, and giant lenses that obviate the whole point of a smaller, mirrorless platform.
„smaller“ never will happen unless you are willing to give up sensor size! If you move the optics closer to the sensor you only exchange the problem of the large registration distance for the problem of the angle of incidence of the light...
rek101 wrote:
This just seems like another mirrorless experiment with bad low light autofocus, "laggy" performance, bad battery life, and giant lenses that obviate the whole point of a smaller, mirrorless platform.
I’m not sure where you’re getting this. Admittedly, I’ve only had the EOS R for less than a day so far, and I sort of expected it to underwhelm me in the ways you describe here. But none of those things are true.
It focuses better in low light than any of my Canon DSLRs do or did. In normal use it doesn’t feel laggy at all (though I have yet to try it on fast-moving subjects). In fact, it feels pretty snappy to me.
I can’t say yet whether battery life is particularly good or bad, because the battery I pulled from my 5D4, which had 77% charge on it, ran the EOS R for 3-4 hours of casual shooting and chimping yesterday and never gave me a low battery warning. Ultimately it may not last as long on the R as it does in the 5D4, but it certainly isn’t terrible. And I have enough of these batteries already that I can be sure to always have one or two charged spares whenever I head out.
I only have my EF and EF-S lens collection to use with it, so can’t really comment on the RF lenses. But I disagree with the sentiment that the whole point of mirrorless is to be small. In any case, the RF 35 macro and RF 24-105 don’t really qualify as “giant” lenses, at least according to the specs I’ve seen.
One downside to using EF lenses with it is that they are lengthened considerably by the adapter. My 40/2.8 pancake is nowhere near as admirably compact on the R with adapter as it is on the DSLRs. And while the 85/1.4L IS is pretty large to begin with, it sticks out a lot more on the R with adapter than I would like. Nevertheless, they (and my other EF and EF-S lenses) worked perfectly well.
Todd Baugh wrote:
The Sony A73 and A7R3 have the blackout and then the "stutter" you speak of...and it's super annoying if you are panning and grabbing a moving subject. You almost have to anticipate where the subject is going to be and pan ahead. The a7r3 is slighly worse as it's EVF has a 120 frames/sec refresh.
Doesn't the "R" have a high refresh rate "mode"?..maybe that needed to be turned on...even if you are not shooting action.
Yes, this is why so far the only EVF experience I've been able to use to track very fast BIF is the A9....the A7R3 didn't cut it and surely neither do the R or Z (even without all their other FPS limitations)...
charlyw wrote:
I wouldn‘t ever recommend using the fully electronic shutter with it‘s severe limitations which is prerequisite for the lack of blackout. A thing that Sony has touted quite big but as usual failed to point out the IMHO catastrophic drawbacks of using it, like the 1/60th of a second readout time for the full sensor...
The A9's readout speed is 1/160th, not 1/60th.
Not quite good enough to see the disappearance of the mechanical shutter, but good enough for a lot of applications, including some with movement in it, and certainly not "catastrophic". Probably the only camera with a sensor bigger than 1" where one could use the fully electronic shutter by default and revert to the mechanical shutter when required, vs. the reverse.
charlyw wrote:
„smaller“ never will happen unless you are willing to give up sensor size! If you move the optics closer to the sensor you only exchange the problem of the large registration distance for the problem of the angle of incidence of the light...
It happened with the sony R1. It happened with the 40mm pancake. Every so often, something compact shows up...it just isn't much of a priority. But I agree, the sensor does play a role....but clearly it can be done if someone decides it's worth doing.
