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Archive 2018Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
p.8 #1Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Fred Miranda wrote:
Perhaps a little less purple fringing, a hair less field curvature. I guess onion ring free potentially? I never found any of these to be field relevant. The only thing that really stands out is better flare/ghosting.
I really wonder if there's going to be any real IQ upgrade if you're not pixel peeping.I'd guess we will see more resolution, micro-contrast, less aberrations and perhaps slighty more field curvature since it's a distagon design. The RX1's lens is pretty much flat field. I wonder if the OOF rendering will be as smooth as the RX1's.
Interesting. Even shooting my rx1 and when I owned the Rx1r2, I saw no visible difference in contrast unless zooming in to pixel peep from f2 to f2.8. Then there was a very faint bump from slightly less fringing. Centrally, I think my zm 35 1.4 is sharper than my rx1, but you have to compare crops to see it. What do you mean by resolution? Just that with slightly less abrasion we get more detail leading to effectively more resolution?
Below are crops from the rx1, seems that IQ improvements will be minimal. Also, seems that the RX1 profile correction indicates some field curvature. Dpreview thinks this as well. But again, I don't think it's too field relevant, so we can agree there.
full scene
nehemiahphoto wrote
I'll be very curious to see what you are getting optically compared to the rx1 sonnar. I doubt you getting smoother bokeh, more micro contrast or sharpness.Perhaps a little less purple fringing, a hair less field curvature. I guess onion ring free potentially? I never found any of these to be field relevant. The only thing that really stands out is better flare/ghosting.
I really wonder if there's going to be any real IQ upgrade if you're not pixel peeping.
Interesting. Even shooting my rx1 and when I owned the Rx1r2, I saw no visible difference in contrast unless zooming in to pixel peep from f2 to f2.8. Then there was a very faint bump from slightly less fringing. Centrally, I think my zm 35 1.4 is sharper than my rx1, but you have to compare crops to see it. What do you mean by resolution? Just that with slightly less abrasion we get more detail leading to effectively more resolution?
Below are crops from the rx1, seems that IQ improvements will be minimal. Also, seems that the RX1 profile correction indicates some field curvature. Dpreview thinks this as well. But again, I don't think it's too field relevant, so we can agree there.
full scene
Oct 05, 2018 at 07:54 PM
p.8 #2Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Zeiss is very bold to be releasing this thing. Kudos for that and just that.
Oct 06, 2018 at 03:15 AM
p.8 #3Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Fred Miranda wrote:
nehemiahphoto wrote
I'll be very curious to see what you are getting optically compared to the rx1 sonnar. I doubt you getting smoother bokeh, more micro contrast or sharpness.Perhaps a little less purple fringing, a hair less field curvature. I guess onion ring free potentially? I never found any of these to be field relevant. The only thing that really stands out is better flare/ghosting.
I really wonder if there's going to be any real IQ upgrade if you're not pixel peeping.
If the rumors are correct, it is nearly identical to the lens design of the the RX1. Only here, Zeiss are calling it a Distagon as it really is.
Sony needed that “Sonnar” name to invoke the Sun and spin a story based on that.
Oct 06, 2018 at 04:46 AM
p.8 #4Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Not for me. Rather spend my money on a fixed lens medium format sensor camera. Pls. do that instead Zeiss. I am curious to see what will this ZX1's color profile will be like. Will it be more like Sony's or Nikon's or completely different?
Oct 06, 2018 at 08:34 AM
p.8 #5Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
realVivek wrote:
Perhaps a little less purple fringing, a hair less field curvature. I guess onion ring free potentially? I never found any of these to be field relevant. The only thing that really stands out is better flare/ghosting.
I really wonder if there's going to be any real IQ upgrade if you're not pixel peeping.I'd guess we will see more resolution, micro-contrast, less aberrations and perhaps slighty more field curvature since it's a distagon design.If the rumors are correct, it is nearly identical to the lens design of the the RX1. Only here, Zeiss are calling it a Distagon as it really is.
Sony needed that “Sonnar” name to invoke the Sun and spin a story based on that.
If Zeiss is using their latest 35/2 patent, it will not be the same as the RX1's Sonnar.
Has Zeiss posted the ZX1's optical design somewhere already?
Sonnar 35/2
Zeiss 35/2 patent
Fred Miranda wrote
nehemiahphoto wrote
I'll be very curious to see what you are getting optically compared to the rx1 sonnar. I doubt you getting smoother bokeh, more micro contrast or sharpness.Perhaps a little less purple fringing, a hair less field curvature. I guess onion ring free potentially? I never found any of these to be field relevant. The only thing that really stands out is better flare/ghosting.
I really wonder if there's going to be any real IQ upgrade if you're not pixel peeping.
Sony needed that “Sonnar” name to invoke the Sun and spin a story based on that.
If Zeiss is using their latest 35/2 patent, it will not be the same as the RX1's Sonnar.
Has Zeiss posted the ZX1's optical design somewhere already?
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Sonnar 35/2
Zeiss 35/2 patent
Oct 06, 2018 at 11:19 AM
p.8 #6Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
wayne seltzer wrote:
Not for me. Rather spend my money on a fixed lens medium format sensor camera. Pls. do that instead Zeiss. I am curious to see what will this ZX1's color profile will be like. Will it be more like Sony's or Nikon's or completely different?
I am hoping it will be completely different, and a selling point. The colors from the Contax N FF DSLR seem special from the photos I've seen, but I haven't shot one.
Not for me. Rather spend my money on a fixed lens medium format sensor camera. Pls. do that instead Zeiss. I am curious to see what will this ZX1's color profile will be like. Will it be more like Sony's or Nikon's or completely different?
I am hoping it will be completely different, and a selling point. The colors from the Contax N FF DSLR seem special from the photos I've seen, but I haven't shot one.
Oct 06, 2018 at 12:53 PM
p.8 #7Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
I am going by those.
Can you tell me why one is a Sonnar and the other a Distagon design?
Fred Miranda wrote:
Perhaps a little less purple fringing, a hair less field curvature. I guess onion ring free potentially? I never found any of these to be field relevant. The only thing that really stands out is better flare/ghosting.
I really wonder if there's going to be any real IQ upgrade if you're not pixel peeping.I'd guess we will see more resolution, micro-contrast, less aberrations and perhaps slighty more field curvature since it's a distagon design.If the rumors are correct, it is nearly identical to the lens design of the the RX1. Only here, Zeiss are calling it a Distagon as it really is.
Sony needed that “Sonnar” name to invoke the Sun and spin a story based on that.If Zeiss is using their latest 35/2 patent, it will not be the same as the RX1's Sonnar.
Has Zeiss posted the ZX1's optical design somewhere already?
Can you tell me why one is a Sonnar and the other a Distagon design?
Fred Miranda wrote:
realVivek wrote
Fred Miranda wrote
nehemiahphoto wrote
I'll be very curious to see what you are getting optically compared to the rx1 sonnar. I doubt you getting smoother bokeh, more micro contrast or sharpness.Perhaps a little less purple fringing, a hair less field curvature. I guess onion ring free potentially? I never found any of these to be field relevant. The only thing that really stands out is better flare/ghosting.
I really wonder if there's going to be any real IQ upgrade if you're not pixel peeping.
Sony needed that “Sonnar” name to invoke the Sun and spin a story based on that.
Has Zeiss posted the ZX1's optical design somewhere already?
Oct 06, 2018 at 01:06 PM
p.8 #8Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Yes, that latest patent lens looks to be a distagon and the ZX1 bigger size is due to it being a distagon. Distagon 35mm lens will be sharper across the frame than the 35mm RX1 Sonnar but will probably have less smooth bokeh, especially toward the edges. Otus 28 and even 55 are Distagon designs along with all their wide angle Milvus and Classic designs. Sony wanted the size of RX1 to be small and that dictated the RX1 to be a Sonnar instead of a Distagon design. Zeiss keeps reaching for the best lens performance for high MP sensors at the price of larger size and weight.
Problem is that the ZX1 being large puts it in competition with your mirrorless or DSLR and not as a small but quality camera for those times you want to go light or as smaller backup camera like the RX1.
Problem is that the ZX1 being large puts it in competition with your mirrorless or DSLR and not as a small but quality camera for those times you want to go light or as smaller backup camera like the RX1.
Oct 07, 2018 at 08:58 AM
p.8 #9Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
This should bring things home at least to some extent:
https://www.apotelyt.com/i3/zeiss-zx1-vs-fujifilm-gfx-50r-front-a.jpg
https://www.apotelyt.com/i3/zeiss-zx1-vs-fujifilm-gfx-50r-top-a.jpg
https://www.apotelyt.com/i3/zeiss-zx1-vs-fujifilm-gfx-50r-rear-a.jpg
https://www.apotelyt.com/i3/zeiss-zx1-vs-hasselblad-x1d-front-a.jpg
https://www.apotelyt.com/i3/zeiss-zx1-vs-hasselblad-x1d-top-a.jpg
https://www.apotelyt.com/i3/zeiss-zx1-vs-hasselblad-x1d-rear-a.jpg
Rich
https://www.apotelyt.com/i3/zeiss-zx1-vs-fujifilm-gfx-50r-front-a.jpg
https://www.apotelyt.com/i3/zeiss-zx1-vs-fujifilm-gfx-50r-top-a.jpg
https://www.apotelyt.com/i3/zeiss-zx1-vs-fujifilm-gfx-50r-rear-a.jpg
https://www.apotelyt.com/i3/zeiss-zx1-vs-hasselblad-x1d-front-a.jpg
https://www.apotelyt.com/i3/zeiss-zx1-vs-hasselblad-x1d-top-a.jpg
https://www.apotelyt.com/i3/zeiss-zx1-vs-hasselblad-x1d-rear-a.jpg
Rich
Oct 07, 2018 at 09:07 AM
p.8 #10Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
tzhang4284 wrote:
It's still thin which is what consumers care about.
Of course they do, because it's the only dimension that matters.
You could put a smallish tablet in a large jacket pocket, a glove compartment, a briefcase, a laptop sleeve along with the laptop. But you can't do that if the lens sticks out even 3 cm.
Up to 15-20 years ago the world was full of slim full frame cameras with collapsible or pancake lenses.
Digital fu... that forever.
It's still thin which is what consumers care about.
Of course they do, because it's the only dimension that matters.
You could put a smallish tablet in a large jacket pocket, a glove compartment, a briefcase, a laptop sleeve along with the laptop. But you can't do that if the lens sticks out even 3 cm.
Up to 15-20 years ago the world was full of slim full frame cameras with collapsible or pancake lenses.
Digital fu... that forever.
Oct 07, 2018 at 09:18 AM
p.8 #11Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Naaahh. I will stick with my Zeiss Ikon Symbolica 
Oct 08, 2018 at 12:17 PM
p.8 #12Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
I find this interesting. Have dry powder in hand hoping for a Sony RX1R M3 or very similar. Initial reaction to Zeiss hype, has me very intrigued. All I can say is time will tell which perfectly imperfect new camera will be my next one.
Oct 21, 2018 at 08:48 AM
p.8 #13Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
I'm not interested at all, it has no lens mount, and it's missing tooo many buttons and dials to make me happy.
Oct 21, 2018 at 12:41 PM
p.8 #14Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Almass wrote:
Naaahh. I will stick with my Zeiss Ikon Symbolica
Nice!
I'll stick with my Conta;
https://flic.kr/p/25RsAsQ
Oct 22, 2018 at 02:51 AM
p.8 #15Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
VERY interesting, but having bought into the Leica M system, about six months ago, and still using Canon and Nikon SLRs, it will be quite some time before I add anything else. In the poll, I chose “Maybe...”
Oct 22, 2018 at 12:31 PM
p.8 #16Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
While I can see that this is going to produce really excellent image quality in a reasonably sized package - just think - it is going have as good or better IQ than any fixed lens MF film camera of the past, and is about the same size, I still think it is a big mistake.
As has been mentioned, the attraction of the RX1R2 was the fantastic image quality and SMALL SIZE. I can't help thinking that Zeiss have looked at a great camera and in trying to improve it have screwed up over its main attraction. I find it hard to understand their decision making and think Zeiss seems to lack any breadth of vision. They have got completely fixated on image quality at any price and are now designing bucket-sized lenses that many people simply don't want to carry, no matter how good they are. Time for a reboot at Zeiss and for a little more wisdom and intelligence.
As has been mentioned, the attraction of the RX1R2 was the fantastic image quality and SMALL SIZE. I can't help thinking that Zeiss have looked at a great camera and in trying to improve it have screwed up over its main attraction. I find it hard to understand their decision making and think Zeiss seems to lack any breadth of vision. They have got completely fixated on image quality at any price and are now designing bucket-sized lenses that many people simply don't want to carry, no matter how good they are. Time for a reboot at Zeiss and for a little more wisdom and intelligence.
Oct 25, 2018 at 02:52 PM
p.8 #17Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Right, but that's why phone cameras are all they're going to buy. We're talking about people who will carry 4 USB batteries in their purse/backpack to have a phone 4mm thick instead of 7. They ain't buying a gigantic digital rangefinder just because Zeiss got rid of the buttons. This thing ain't for kids, this is for old farts who want to imagine they're "with it."
Yes, exactly right. People who like shooting with phones will look at this and shake their heads in despair. It is far, far too big. Those who want a real camera, want one because they are prepared to sacrifice some size burden for a camera that has proper, sensible control that is not a frustrating piece of crap for taking photos like an iPhone. I take photos with my iPhone because I always have it with me, not because I like its ergonomics or usability. dah!
This suggests to me that the RX1R2 had it just about right in size and ergonomics for a fixed lens camera, and Zeiss haven't got a clue.
Edited on Oct 25, 2018 at 03:20 PM · View previous versions
Yes, exactly right. People who like shooting with phones will look at this and shake their heads in despair. It is far, far too big. Those who want a real camera, want one because they are prepared to sacrifice some size burden for a camera that has proper, sensible control that is not a frustrating piece of crap for taking photos like an iPhone. I take photos with my iPhone because I always have it with me, not because I like its ergonomics or usability. dah!
This suggests to me that the RX1R2 had it just about right in size and ergonomics for a fixed lens camera, and Zeiss haven't got a clue.
Edited on Oct 25, 2018 at 03:20 PM · View previous versions
Oct 25, 2018 at 03:17 PM
p.8 #18Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
wolfloid wrote:
This suggests to me that the RX1R2 had it just about right in size and ergonomics for a fixed lens camera, and Zeiss haven't got a clue.
+1
This suggests to me that the RX1R2 had it just about right in size and ergonomics for a fixed lens camera, and Zeiss haven't got a clue.
+1
Oct 25, 2018 at 03:20 PM
p.8 #19Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Of course a very strange move by CZ. Trying to identify exactly what is behind it, a lot of Zeiss PR material in recent years features rugged individualists in exotic places using their DSLR lenses. Think kayaking through ice floes near the Arctic, a chisel jaw protagonist, designer stubble and 1000m stare across the wasteland. Our hero then needs to send his work instantly back to base for instant posting. Same holds for remote PJ types.
They are out of touch. In recent times, they have not done much more than make new versions of their halcyon era lenses, but with near-military hardening added for users to haul, burdening them needlessly with every step at nearly twice the previous weight.
They have not made a new camera for two decades, maybe more. It looks like the 'photography first' people lost out to the 'style council' crew, who seem to be obsessed with twee bird names and natty product design as the top priority. Different people in charge and it shows.
Took a look at poll results. All the options are positively worded. We can assume 'No: good concept but not for me' (at 77%) contains a lot that might be better described as 'No way: what are they thinking?'.
For a first camera after so long, it's a big disappointment. Only the large retailers will know if it is DOA in the market. The reception and enduring success of the RX1 series may have distorted the thinking of Sony and Zeiss, so we end up with this outcome where we might have instead seen a trimmed down Milvus 35mm at CY 35/1.4 dimensions for a7 cameras.
You can easily guess what Sony users would opt for if they had been given the choice, the RX1 is already filling the high end FLC niche very well. The ZX1 is a product that did not need to exist.
They are out of touch. In recent times, they have not done much more than make new versions of their halcyon era lenses, but with near-military hardening added for users to haul, burdening them needlessly with every step at nearly twice the previous weight.
They have not made a new camera for two decades, maybe more. It looks like the 'photography first' people lost out to the 'style council' crew, who seem to be obsessed with twee bird names and natty product design as the top priority. Different people in charge and it shows.
Took a look at poll results. All the options are positively worded. We can assume 'No: good concept but not for me' (at 77%) contains a lot that might be better described as 'No way: what are they thinking?'.
For a first camera after so long, it's a big disappointment. Only the large retailers will know if it is DOA in the market. The reception and enduring success of the RX1 series may have distorted the thinking of Sony and Zeiss, so we end up with this outcome where we might have instead seen a trimmed down Milvus 35mm at CY 35/1.4 dimensions for a7 cameras.
You can easily guess what Sony users would opt for if they had been given the choice, the RX1 is already filling the high end FLC niche very well. The ZX1 is a product that did not need to exist.
Oct 25, 2018 at 08:28 PM
p.8 #20Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
I love cool new toys that can create beautiful experiences and that are technically edgy and beautiful in themselves. I want one. I would buy it. BUT I'm sure it's going to come in at about $4500-5000, and that is too expensive a toy for me to get to play with in a narrow application! Other things would come first for a long time. Unfortunately.
Oct 25, 2018 at 09:50 PM