This topic is in the 2018 archive. You can read it and like its posts here. It is read only.
Archive 2018Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
p.37 #1Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
trstahly wrote:
Zeiss gets to say they were first but what good are bragging rights two years after genrating the buzz? It was a novel idea two years ago and still has merit just not $6,000 worth of merit.
A smaller ZX1 as a regular digital camera like the much hoped for RX1r III and more user friendly and better than the Leica Q2 for less money would have been a much more salable camera.
There is a place for a camera of this type I suppose but the market is limited unless it is priced at $2,500 or sub $2,000 in reality.
It does...Show more →
I do this with my phone already. Indeed, I did it tonight. If I'm doing something on the fly and want to share, quickly, what I've taken with family, friends or the Instagram world, a JPEG is fine. Take the photo, hold my phone to the side of my camera, photo automatically transfers to my phone in seconds. It's a mindless procedure with almost zero steps apart from taking the phone out of my pocket.
My Note 10+ has a prettier screen, is more powerful and more connected than any camera will be for a long time. I can edit a JPEG quite well on the Lightroom mobile app and the S Pen is really useful for guys with fat fingers like me. I also have a 512GB micro SD card in it (on top of the 256GB of internal memory) so storage will not be in issue either.
In a world where people generally upgrade their phones every two years, I just don't see why a camera company would do anything other than focus their energy on an app that efficiently transfers photos to an external device like a phone or tablet. Let the heavy lifting of innovation at the software level be done by app developers, at the hardware level by the device manufacturers.
Zeiss gets to say they were first but what good are bragging rights two years after genrating the buzz? It was a novel idea two years ago and still has merit just not $6,000 worth of merit.
A smaller ZX1 as a regular digital camera like the much hoped for RX1r III and more user friendly and better than the Leica Q2 for less money would have been a much more salable camera.
There is a place for a camera of this type I suppose but the market is limited unless it is priced at $2,500 or sub $2,000 in reality.
It does...Show more →
I do this with my phone already. Indeed, I did it tonight. If I'm doing something on the fly and want to share, quickly, what I've taken with family, friends or the Instagram world, a JPEG is fine. Take the photo, hold my phone to the side of my camera, photo automatically transfers to my phone in seconds. It's a mindless procedure with almost zero steps apart from taking the phone out of my pocket.
My Note 10+ has a prettier screen, is more powerful and more connected than any camera will be for a long time. I can edit a JPEG quite well on the Lightroom mobile app and the S Pen is really useful for guys with fat fingers like me. I also have a 512GB micro SD card in it (on top of the 256GB of internal memory) so storage will not be in issue either.
In a world where people generally upgrade their phones every two years, I just don't see why a camera company would do anything other than focus their energy on an app that efficiently transfers photos to an external device like a phone or tablet. Let the heavy lifting of innovation at the software level be done by app developers, at the hardware level by the device manufacturers.
Oct 08, 2020 at 12:18 AM
p.37 #2Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
My bet is that, eventually, something like the Pixii sticks (or Alice, or the failed Relonch, or Sony's QX100).
Or, better yet, proper camera manufacturers either sort out their mobile apps and/or let others do it for them (though, unless a new player forces them, progress will be glacial). With Samsung out, Sony is better positioned for this, but my god… progress will be glacial.
The Pixii is interesting enough that if I was invested in M-mount glass instead of Sony E I might buy one. Because, again, someone nimble needs to push this. It's not even technically "hard" but someone needs to demonstrate in the market what the right course is.
Conversely, putting the smartphone inside the camera is nothing but forced obsolescence. And Zeiss, in particular, simply does not have the structure to support an Android build for over half a decade on fixed hardware, even at 6000€ a pop. Samsung doesn't do it on their phones, Zeiss won't be able to in a low volume product, however much it costs.
Or, better yet, proper camera manufacturers either sort out their mobile apps and/or let others do it for them (though, unless a new player forces them, progress will be glacial). With Samsung out, Sony is better positioned for this, but my god… progress will be glacial.
The Pixii is interesting enough that if I was invested in M-mount glass instead of Sony E I might buy one. Because, again, someone nimble needs to push this. It's not even technically "hard" but someone needs to demonstrate in the market what the right course is.
Conversely, putting the smartphone inside the camera is nothing but forced obsolescence. And Zeiss, in particular, simply does not have the structure to support an Android build for over half a decade on fixed hardware, even at 6000€ a pop. Samsung doesn't do it on their phones, Zeiss won't be able to in a low volume product, however much it costs.
Oct 08, 2020 at 05:36 AM
p.37 #3Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Dave Sanders wrote:
It gets you a continuous source of distraction that undermines your ability to engage deeply with the subject(s) you are attempting to photograph. The perfect tool for anyone whose attention span has been destroyed by social media.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GO8HZIW/I think the same was probably said when LCD screens were first introduced to the back of digital cameras, ergo "Chimping"
The ZX1 workflow concept has already been put to very successful practice for several years now with thousands of mobile phone photographers and snappers all over the world. To me it makes sense to want to replicate this hugely successful approach/workflow with a proper sensor. Why not. The ZX1 is just the beginning of what's to come for high-end photography gear IMO.I've seen thousands of people take tens of thousands of photos and I have, literally, never seen a single one, ever, take a RAW photo and then edit on their phone. It's just not how the average user engages with a photo taken on a smartphone. Zero hassle, zero fuss. This is the exact opposite of that. Super expensive, lots of hassle, more fuss.
I don't think many if any of the hundreds of thousands of once ubiquitous Point & Shoot camera snappers film or digital, ever edited their photos either. The same as we know have since been replaced with the now ubiquitous mobile phone camera snappers.
OTOH Most modern mobile phone cameras already apply up to massive amounts of image processing for each photo or video taken. In fact some very sophisticated image enhancement processing goes on in the blink of an eye. Many call this technology "computational photography"
Here is a brief description of Apple's latest Deep Fusion technology: "...optimizing for texture, details and noise in every part of the photo.”
"How Deep Fusion works
Deep Fusion fuses nine separate exposures together into a single image, Schiller explained. What that means is that when you capture an image while in this mode, your iPhone’s camera will capture four short images, one long exposure and four secondary images each time you take a photo.
Before you press the shutter button it’s already shot four short images and four secondary images, when you press the shutter button it takes one long exposure, and in just one second the Neural Engine analyses the combination and selects the best among them.
In that time, Deep Fusion on your A13 chip goes through every pixel on the image (all 24 million of them) to select and optimize each one of them for detail and noise – all in a second...""
https://www.computerworld.com/article/3438537/iphone-11-what-is-deep-fusion-and-how-does-it-work.html
FWIW, I edit almost all images taken with my iPhone ( I think most serious photographers do too) and when I show others how easy it is with a few very simple clicks to improve their own photos they are thrilled. In edition to embedded editing tools, there are plenty of very capable traditional mobile phone photo editing apps as well and along side some very fun to use apps too, not to mention all the filters many already apply to their social media and personal photos via their mobile phone.
LBJ2 wrote
genji wrote
DaveFP wrote
Not trying to be snarky but I really don't understand what this camera gets you....https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GO8HZIW/
The ZX1 workflow concept has already been put to very successful practice for several years now with thousands of mobile phone photographers and snappers all over the world. To me it makes sense to want to replicate this hugely successful approach/workflow with a proper sensor. Why not. The ZX1 is just the beginning of what's to come for high-end photography gear IMO.
I don't think many if any of the hundreds of thousands of once ubiquitous Point & Shoot camera snappers film or digital, ever edited their photos either. The same as we know have since been replaced with the now ubiquitous mobile phone camera snappers.
OTOH Most modern mobile phone cameras already apply up to massive amounts of image processing for each photo or video taken. In fact some very sophisticated image enhancement processing goes on in the blink of an eye. Many call this technology "computational photography"
Here is a brief description of Apple's latest Deep Fusion technology: "...optimizing for texture, details and noise in every part of the photo.”
"How Deep Fusion works
Deep Fusion fuses nine separate exposures together into a single image, Schiller explained. What that means is that when you capture an image while in this mode, your iPhone’s camera will capture four short images, one long exposure and four secondary images each time you take a photo.
Before you press the shutter button it’s already shot four short images and four secondary images, when you press the shutter button it takes one long exposure, and in just one second the Neural Engine analyses the combination and selects the best among them.
In that time, Deep Fusion on your A13 chip goes through every pixel on the image (all 24 million of them) to select and optimize each one of them for detail and noise – all in a second...""
https://www.computerworld.com/article/3438537/iphone-11-what-is-deep-fusion-and-how-does-it-work.html
FWIW, I edit almost all images taken with my iPhone ( I think most serious photographers do too) and when I show others how easy it is with a few very simple clicks to improve their own photos they are thrilled. In edition to embedded editing tools, there are plenty of very capable traditional mobile phone photo editing apps as well and along side some very fun to use apps too, not to mention all the filters many already apply to their social media and personal photos via their mobile phone.
Oct 08, 2020 at 06:39 AM
p.37 #4Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
LBJ2 wrote:
I don't think many if any of the hundreds of thousands of once ubiquitous Point & Shoot camera snappers film or digital, ever edited their photos either. The same as we know have since been replaced with the now ubiquitous mobile phone camera snappers.
OTOH Most modern mobile phone cameras already apply up to massive amounts of image processing for each photo or video taken. In fact some very sophisticated image enhancement processing goes on in the blink of an eye. Many call this technology "computational photography"
Here is a brief description of Apple's latest Deep Fusion technology: "...optimizing for texture,...Show more →
Yes, agreed. Smartphones are incredibly powerful these days and only getting more so...and computational photography is getting good and its getting efficient. The chips in new phones pack some serious punch, storage options are getting as large as consumer laptops and RAM is hitting laptop levels as well, with newer phones hitting the 16GB range. I don't see why you'd want to compete rather than piggybacking on that.
As for editing...same. Why compete rather than create synergy? My point is that the only difference between what the ZX1 is slated to do VS. what Sony can already do is edit a raw file, which I've never seen anyone do. I can edit a JPEG more conveniently, on a better screen with more powerful tools on my phone already and I don't even need to press anything to do it. I just open my phone and it's literally just a tap. It's been one of my favourite and most used features since the original A7R.
Oct 08, 2020 at 08:04 AM
p.37 #5Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Editing the raw file gives more flexibility, dynamic range and better quality. Some people have suggested that they want to post directly from the camera, avoiding the mobile phone as intermidiary. Whether this is economical to do, remains to be seen.
Oct 08, 2020 at 08:30 AM
p.37 #6Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
ilkka_nissila wrote:
Editing the raw file gives more flexibility, dynamic range and better quality. Some people have suggested that they want to post directly from the camera, avoiding the mobile phone as intermidiary. Whether this is economical to do, remains to be seen.
Sure, I think everyone on the forum understands the value of a RAW file... But I also think they understand how editing one on a small screen of dubious colour management and gamut is less than ideal. I'm saying that, if you can't take the 30 seconds to get it on to a far superior editing device, or even better, wait till you get home to do critical post processing that actually realizes the advantages of a RAW file you're good with a JPEG.
I say this as someone who transfers images to his phone to edit and share multiple times a week.
Oct 08, 2020 at 09:28 AM
p.37 #7Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Since I have not seen the ZX-1, I have no idea of the quality of its LCD screen. I would assume that given the price, it may well be up to the task. A larger problem may be that in field conditions, it may be difficult to use it in bright sun, but then I don't think bright sun is photogenic lighting so it wouldn't affect me often.
If you transfer jpgs from camera to mobile phone, do the images appear immediately in LR or other editing software or do you have to import them? Do the edits transfer automatically to the catalog of raw files that are later transmitted from the camera onto a computer? My experiences with LR's mobile implementation were so bad that I haven't kept up with that platform, only using the desktop applications. But, I imagine it'll eventually work correctly since many like the idea of multi-platform editing with originals in the cloud. I personally prefer to know where the files are physically.
If you transfer jpgs from camera to mobile phone, do the images appear immediately in LR or other editing software or do you have to import them? Do the edits transfer automatically to the catalog of raw files that are later transmitted from the camera onto a computer? My experiences with LR's mobile implementation were so bad that I haven't kept up with that platform, only using the desktop applications. But, I imagine it'll eventually work correctly since many like the idea of multi-platform editing with originals in the cloud. I personally prefer to know where the files are physically.
Oct 08, 2020 at 12:15 PM
p.37 #8Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Godspeed to the early adopters - this will undoubtedly be one very buggy camera. Wish Zeiss would just make a fast 35 or 28 instead.
Chris
Chris
Oct 08, 2020 at 12:58 PM
p.37 #9Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
An exposure compensation dial would have been nice for 6000$. Even Leica has that on the M10..
--
I just hope this camera being a potential failure won't affect Zeiss's plans for future lens development for stills cameras.
--
I just hope this camera being a potential failure won't affect Zeiss's plans for future lens development for stills cameras.
Oct 08, 2020 at 01:24 PM
p.37 #10Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Sinasina wrote:
An exposure compensation dial would have been nice for 6000$. Even Leica has that on the M10..
--
I just hope this camera being a potential failure won't affect Zeiss's plans for future lens development for stills cameras.
I think Zeiss is doing just fine with or without the success of the ZX1. In fact, not too many in this business have the wherewithal to take on and produce such a project as the ZX1 in this market.
After all these camera-less years, can you imagine if the legendary Zeiss came to market with just some other Sony/Canon/Nikon/Panasonic mirrorless look-alike ? If any company has a chance to pull this off, it's Zeiss.
With that said, I think expectations are very, very high for that 35/2 Distagon specifically fitted to the ZX1 sensor !!
And to your comment, what IS next for Zeiss mirrorless lenses. Not even a hint of a rumor, Loxia, Batis... anything
Might as well ask for a Batis 100/2 
An exposure compensation dial would have been nice for 6000$. Even Leica has that on the M10..
--
I just hope this camera being a potential failure won't affect Zeiss's plans for future lens development for stills cameras.
I think Zeiss is doing just fine with or without the success of the ZX1. In fact, not too many in this business have the wherewithal to take on and produce such a project as the ZX1 in this market.
After all these camera-less years, can you imagine if the legendary Zeiss came to market with just some other Sony/Canon/Nikon/Panasonic mirrorless look-alike ? If any company has a chance to pull this off, it's Zeiss.
With that said, I think expectations are very, very high for that 35/2 Distagon specifically fitted to the ZX1 sensor !!
And to your comment, what IS next for Zeiss mirrorless lenses. Not even a hint of a rumor, Loxia, Batis... anything
Might as well ask for a Batis 100/2 Oct 08, 2020 at 02:36 PM
p.37 #11Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
LBJ2 wrote:
--
I just hope this camera being a potential failure won't affect Zeiss's plans for future lens development for stills cameras.I think Zeiss is doing just fine with or without the success of the ZX1. In fact, not too many in this business have the wherewithal to take on and produce such a project as the ZX1 in this market.
After all these camera-less years, can you imagine if the legendary Zeiss came to market with just some other Sony/Canon/Nikon/Panasonic mirrorless look-alike ? If any company has a chance to pull this off, it's Zeiss.
With that said, I think expectations are very, very high for that 35/2 Distagon specifically fitted to the ZX1 sensor !!
And to your comment, what...Show more →
Zeiss is doing just fine yes, but that does not mean they would continue making consumer level -made in Japan- camera lenses, if nothing they do in that segment is successful, potentially including this Camera.
I'm even wondering if the Batis, Loxia & Milvus lines are considered a success..
Sinasina wrote
An exposure compensation dial would have been nice for 6000$. Even Leica has that on the M10..--
I just hope this camera being a potential failure won't affect Zeiss's plans for future lens development for stills cameras.
After all these camera-less years, can you imagine if the legendary Zeiss came to market with just some other Sony/Canon/Nikon/Panasonic mirrorless look-alike ? If any company has a chance to pull this off, it's Zeiss.
With that said, I think expectations are very, very high for that 35/2 Distagon specifically fitted to the ZX1 sensor !!
And to your comment, what...Show more →
Zeiss is doing just fine yes, but that does not mean they would continue making consumer level -made in Japan- camera lenses, if nothing they do in that segment is successful, potentially including this Camera.
I'm even wondering if the Batis, Loxia & Milvus lines are considered a success..
Oct 09, 2020 at 02:07 AM
p.37 #12Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Sinasina wrote:
--
I just hope this camera being a potential failure won't affect Zeiss's plans for future lens development for stills cameras.I think Zeiss is doing just fine with or without the success of the ZX1. In fact, not too many in this business have the wherewithal to take on and produce such a project as the ZX1 in this market.
After all these camera-less years, can you imagine if the legendary Zeiss came to market with just some other Sony/Canon/Nikon/Panasonic mirrorless look-alike ? If any company has a chance to pull this off, it's Zeiss.
With that said, I think expectations are very, very high for that 35/2 Distagon specifically fitted to the ZX1 sensor !!
And to your comment, what IS next for Zeiss mirrorless lenses. Not even a hint of a rumor, Loxia, Batis... anything Might as well ask for a Batis 100/2 Zeiss is doing just fine yes, but that does not mean they would continue making consumer level -made in Japan- camera lenses, if nothing they do in that segment is successful, potentially including this Camera.
I'm even wondering if the Batis, Loxia & Milvus lines are considered a success..
I'm not even sure whether their lens business depends primarily on their own finished products. The Zeiss CEO said that slow business in lenses was caused by lagging demand "from our customers Canon and Nikon". https://www.swp.de/suedwesten/staedte/heidenheim/zeiss-oberkochen-gute-bilanz-das-zehnte-rekordjahr-in-folge-41480123.html
LBJ2 wrote
Sinasina wrote
An exposure compensation dial would have been nice for 6000$. Even Leica has that on the M10..--
I just hope this camera being a potential failure won't affect Zeiss's plans for future lens development for stills cameras.
After all these camera-less years, can you imagine if the legendary Zeiss came to market with just some other Sony/Canon/Nikon/Panasonic mirrorless look-alike ? If any company has a chance to pull this off, it's Zeiss.
With that said, I think expectations are very, very high for that 35/2 Distagon specifically fitted to the ZX1 sensor !!
And to your comment, what IS next for Zeiss mirrorless lenses. Not even a hint of a rumor, Loxia, Batis... anything
Might as well ask for a Batis 100/2 I'm even wondering if the Batis, Loxia & Milvus lines are considered a success..
I'm not even sure whether their lens business depends primarily on their own finished products. The Zeiss CEO said that slow business in lenses was caused by lagging demand "from our customers Canon and Nikon". https://www.swp.de/suedwesten/staedte/heidenheim/zeiss-oberkochen-gute-bilanz-das-zehnte-rekordjahr-in-folge-41480123.html
Oct 09, 2020 at 04:14 AM
p.37 #13Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
AcuteShadows wrote:
--
I just hope this camera being a potential failure won't affect Zeiss's plans for future lens development for stills cameras.I think Zeiss is doing just fine with or without the success of the ZX1. In fact, not too many in this business have the wherewithal to take on and produce such a project as the ZX1 in this market.
After all these camera-less years, can you imagine if the legendary Zeiss came to market with just some other Sony/Canon/Nikon/Panasonic mirrorless look-alike ? If any company has a chance to pull this off, it's Zeiss.
With that said, I think expectations are very, very high for that 35/2 Distagon specifically fitted to the ZX1 sensor !!
And to your comment, what IS next for Zeiss mirrorless lenses. Not even a hint of a rumor, Loxia, Batis... anything Might as well ask for a Batis 100/2 Zeiss is doing just fine yes, but that does not mean they would continue making consumer level -made in Japan- camera lenses, if nothing they do in that segment is successful, potentially including this Camera.
I'm even wondering if the Batis, Loxia & Milvus lines are considered a success..I'm not even sure whether their lens business depends primarily on their own finished products. The Zeiss CEO said that slow business in lenses was caused by lagging demand "from our customers Canon and Nikon". https://www.swp.de/suedwesten/staedte/heidenheim/zeiss-oberkochen-gute-bilanz-das-zehnte-rekordjahr-in-folge-41480123.html
My interpretation of the phrase "Unsere Kunden Canon und Nikon" is not that Canon and Nikon are themselves customers, rather it is referring to their Canon and Nikon customers, ie people who buy Zeiss SLR lenses. I just checked with a native German speaking camera geek friend, and he thinks this is probably right (although the way it's written does leave the other interpretation open)
Sinasina wrote
LBJ2 wrote
Sinasina wrote
An exposure compensation dial would have been nice for 6000$. Even Leica has that on the M10..--
I just hope this camera being a potential failure won't affect Zeiss's plans for future lens development for stills cameras.
After all these camera-less years, can you imagine if the legendary Zeiss came to market with just some other Sony/Canon/Nikon/Panasonic mirrorless look-alike ? If any company has a chance to pull this off, it's Zeiss.
With that said, I think expectations are very, very high for that 35/2 Distagon specifically fitted to the ZX1 sensor !!
And to your comment, what IS next for Zeiss mirrorless lenses. Not even a hint of a rumor, Loxia, Batis... anything
Might as well ask for a Batis 100/2 I'm even wondering if the Batis, Loxia & Milvus lines are considered a success..
My interpretation of the phrase "Unsere Kunden Canon und Nikon" is not that Canon and Nikon are themselves customers, rather it is referring to their Canon and Nikon customers, ie people who buy Zeiss SLR lenses. I just checked with a native German speaking camera geek friend, and he thinks this is probably right (although the way it's written does leave the other interpretation open)
Oct 09, 2020 at 04:42 AM
p.37 #14Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
DavidBM wrote:
--
I just hope this camera being a potential failure won't affect Zeiss's plans for future lens development for stills cameras.I think Zeiss is doing just fine with or without the success of the ZX1. In fact, not too many in this business have the wherewithal to take on and produce such a project as the ZX1 in this market.
After all these camera-less years, can you imagine if the legendary Zeiss came to market with just some other Sony/Canon/Nikon/Panasonic mirrorless look-alike ? If any company has a chance to pull this off, it's Zeiss.
With that said, I think expectations are very, very high for that 35/2 Distagon specifically fitted to the ZX1 sensor !!
And to your comment, what IS next for Zeiss mirrorless lenses. Not even a hint of a rumor, Loxia, Batis... anything Might as well ask for a Batis 100/2 Zeiss is doing just fine yes, but that does not mean they would continue making consumer level -made in Japan- camera lenses, if nothing they do in that segment is successful, potentially including this Camera.
I'm even wondering if the Batis, Loxia & Milvus lines are considered a success..I'm not even sure whether their lens business depends primarily on their own finished products. The Zeiss CEO said that slow business in lenses was caused by lagging demand "from our customers Canon and Nikon". https://www.swp.de/suedwesten/staedte/heidenheim/zeiss-oberkochen-gute-bilanz-das-zehnte-rekordjahr-in-folge-41480123.htmlMy interpretation of the phrase "Unsere Kunden Canon und Nikon" is not that Canon and Nikon are themselves customers, rather it is referring to their Canon and Nikon customers, ie people who buy Zeiss SLR lenses. I just checked with a native German speaking camera geek friend, and he thinks this is probably right (although the way it's written does leave the other interpretation open)
I'm a German native speaker, and I would find "unsere Kunden Canon und Nikon" an odd way to refer to customers of Zeiss that use Canon and Nikon products. "haben Rückgänge" would translate to "experience lack [of demand]", and that expression would also rather refer to companies than to customers. They way I read it, I think the CEO refers to the companies, but I would concede that there is some room for alternative interpretations. The main reason for considering alternative possibilities is, in my view, that I just have never heard anything about Nikon and Canon using Zeiss products.
AcuteShadows wrote
Sinasina wrote
LBJ2 wrote
Sinasina wrote
An exposure compensation dial would have been nice for 6000$. Even Leica has that on the M10..--
I just hope this camera being a potential failure won't affect Zeiss's plans for future lens development for stills cameras.
After all these camera-less years, can you imagine if the legendary Zeiss came to market with just some other Sony/Canon/Nikon/Panasonic mirrorless look-alike ? If any company has a chance to pull this off, it's Zeiss.
With that said, I think expectations are very, very high for that 35/2 Distagon specifically fitted to the ZX1 sensor !!
And to your comment, what IS next for Zeiss mirrorless lenses. Not even a hint of a rumor, Loxia, Batis... anything
Might as well ask for a Batis 100/2 I'm even wondering if the Batis, Loxia & Milvus lines are considered a success..
I'm a German native speaker, and I would find "unsere Kunden Canon und Nikon" an odd way to refer to customers of Zeiss that use Canon and Nikon products. "haben Rückgänge" would translate to "experience lack [of demand]", and that expression would also rather refer to companies than to customers. They way I read it, I think the CEO refers to the companies, but I would concede that there is some room for alternative interpretations. The main reason for considering alternative possibilities is, in my view, that I just have never heard anything about Nikon and Canon using Zeiss products.
Oct 09, 2020 at 04:51 AM
p.37 #15Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
AcuteShadows wrote:
--
I just hope this camera being a potential failure won't affect Zeiss's plans for future lens development for stills cameras.I think Zeiss is doing just fine with or without the success of the ZX1. In fact, not too many in this business have the wherewithal to take on and produce such a project as the ZX1 in this market.
After all these camera-less years, can you imagine if the legendary Zeiss came to market with just some other Sony/Canon/Nikon/Panasonic mirrorless look-alike ? If any company has a chance to pull this off, it's Zeiss.
With that said, I think expectations are very, very high for that 35/2 Distagon specifically fitted to the ZX1 sensor !!
And to your comment, what IS next for Zeiss mirrorless lenses. Not even a hint of a rumor, Loxia, Batis... anything Might as well ask for a Batis 100/2 Zeiss is doing just fine yes, but that does not mean they would continue making consumer level -made in Japan- camera lenses, if nothing they do in that segment is successful, potentially including this Camera.
I'm even wondering if the Batis, Loxia & Milvus lines are considered a success..I'm not even sure whether their lens business depends primarily on their own finished products. The Zeiss CEO said that slow business in lenses was caused by lagging demand "from our customers Canon and Nikon". https://www.swp.de/suedwesten/staedte/heidenheim/zeiss-oberkochen-gute-bilanz-das-zehnte-rekordjahr-in-folge-41480123.htmlMy interpretation of the phrase "Unsere Kunden Canon und Nikon" is not that Canon and Nikon are themselves customers, rather it is referring to their Canon and Nikon customers, ie people who buy Zeiss SLR lenses. I just checked with a native German speaking camera geek friend, and he thinks this is probably right (although the way it's written does leave the other interpretation open)I'm a German native speaker, and I would find "unsere Kunden Canon und Nikon" an odd way to refer to customers of Zeiss that use Canon and Nikon products. "haben Rückgänge" would translate to "experience lack [of demand]", and that expression would also rather refer to companies than to customers. They way I read it, I think the CEO refers to the companies, but I would concede that there is some room for alternative interpretations.
Thanks. Yes my friend (and my own limited understanding) agrees it's the most natural way of reading it, but combined with the fact that their Canon Mount and Nikon Mount sales are known to have plummeted, and that if they do have non-trivial direct sales to Canon or Nikon we don't know about, this would be an odd way to announce it, makes the alternative less natural interpretation more attractive.
DavidBM wrote
AcuteShadows wrote
Sinasina wrote
LBJ2 wrote
Sinasina wrote
An exposure compensation dial would have been nice for 6000$. Even Leica has that on the M10..--
I just hope this camera being a potential failure won't affect Zeiss's plans for future lens development for stills cameras.
After all these camera-less years, can you imagine if the legendary Zeiss came to market with just some other Sony/Canon/Nikon/Panasonic mirrorless look-alike ? If any company has a chance to pull this off, it's Zeiss.
With that said, I think expectations are very, very high for that 35/2 Distagon specifically fitted to the ZX1 sensor !!
And to your comment, what IS next for Zeiss mirrorless lenses. Not even a hint of a rumor, Loxia, Batis... anything
Might as well ask for a Batis 100/2 I'm even wondering if the Batis, Loxia & Milvus lines are considered a success..
Thanks. Yes my friend (and my own limited understanding) agrees it's the most natural way of reading it, but combined with the fact that their Canon Mount and Nikon Mount sales are known to have plummeted, and that if they do have non-trivial direct sales to Canon or Nikon we don't know about, this would be an odd way to announce it, makes the alternative less natural interpretation more attractive.
Oct 09, 2020 at 04:54 AM
p.37 #16Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
I think they mean "our Nikon- and Canon (mount)-using customers."
Oct 09, 2020 at 05:07 AM
p.37 #17Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Fuzzy (may be they took the idea of a creamy bokeh a bit too seriously?), just like their business strategy has been of late.
IMO, they should have said, Cosina und Tamron (Their blue tag buyer-real lens makers), instead.
IMO, they should have said, Cosina und Tamron (Their blue tag buyer-real lens makers), instead.
Oct 09, 2020 at 05:10 AM
p.37 #18Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
DavidBM wrote:
After all these camera-less years, can you imagine if the legendary Zeiss came to market with just some other Sony/Canon/Nikon/Panasonic mirrorless look-alike ? If any company has a chance to pull this off, it's Zeiss.
With that said, I think expectations are very, very high for that 35/2 Distagon specifically fitted to the ZX1 sensor !!
And to your comment, what IS next for Zeiss mirrorless lenses. Not even a hint of a rumor, Loxia, Batis... anything Might as well ask for a Batis 100/2 Zeiss is doing just fine yes, but that does not mean they would continue making consumer level -made in Japan- camera lenses, if nothing they do in that segment is successful, potentially including this Camera.
I'm even wondering if the Batis, Loxia & Milvus lines are considered a success..I'm not even sure whether their lens business depends primarily on their own finished products. The Zeiss CEO said that slow business in lenses was caused by lagging demand "from our customers Canon and Nikon". https://www.swp.de/suedwesten/staedte/heidenheim/zeiss-oberkochen-gute-bilanz-das-zehnte-rekordjahr-in-folge-41480123.htmlMy interpretation of the phrase "Unsere Kunden Canon und Nikon" is not that Canon and Nikon are themselves customers, rather it is referring to their Canon and Nikon customers, ie people who buy Zeiss SLR lenses. I just checked with a native German speaking camera geek friend, and he thinks this is probably right (although the way it's written does leave the other interpretation open)I'm a German native speaker, and I would find "unsere Kunden Canon und Nikon" an odd way to refer to customers of Zeiss that use Canon and Nikon products. "haben Rückgänge" would translate to "experience lack [of demand]", and that expression would also rather refer to companies than to customers. They way I read it, I think the CEO refers to the companies, but I would concede that there is some room for alternative interpretations.Thanks. Yes my friend (and my own limited understanding) agrees it's the most natural way of reading it, but combined with the fact that their Canon Mount and Nikon Mount sales are known to have plummeted, and that if they do have non-trivial direct sales to Canon or Nikon we don't know about, this would be an odd way to announce it, makes the alternative less natural interpretation more attractive.
Re-reading the whole paragraph, I'm more and more convinced that the Zeiss CEO may actually have said something different than what we see here in the direct quote.
AcuteShadows wrote
DavidBM wrote
AcuteShadows wrote
Sinasina wrote
LBJ2 wrote
I think Zeiss is doing just fine with or without the success of the ZX1. In fact, not too many in this business have the wherewithal to take on and produce such a project as the ZX1 in this market.After all these camera-less years, can you imagine if the legendary Zeiss came to market with just some other Sony/Canon/Nikon/Panasonic mirrorless look-alike ? If any company has a chance to pull this off, it's Zeiss.
With that said, I think expectations are very, very high for that 35/2 Distagon specifically fitted to the ZX1 sensor !!
And to your comment, what IS next for Zeiss mirrorless lenses. Not even a hint of a rumor, Loxia, Batis... anything
Might as well ask for a Batis 100/2 I'm even wondering if the Batis, Loxia & Milvus lines are considered a success..
Re-reading the whole paragraph, I'm more and more convinced that the Zeiss CEO may actually have said something different than what we see here in the direct quote.
Oct 09, 2020 at 05:13 AM
p.37 #19Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Well, they haven't released a lot of FF lenses during the last two years, so sales cannot be good. I found the phrase in that German article weird too, unless of course, as David mentioned, Zeiss has provided Canikon with glass (isn't Schott a subsidiary of Zeiss?) or some other material we don't know about.
More likely, this was a clumsy and incorrect way of refering more broadly to DSLR-related sales. In other words, it might have been a smarter idea to invest the R&D that went into developing those Milvus lenses into a line of fast mirrorless lenses. Of course, with Cosina already having (very) fast MF lenses available at the 21, 35, 40, 50 and 75mm FL's, Zeiss better hurry, if they still want a piece of that particular cake.
More likely, this was a clumsy and incorrect way of refering more broadly to DSLR-related sales. In other words, it might have been a smarter idea to invest the R&D that went into developing those Milvus lenses into a line of fast mirrorless lenses. Of course, with Cosina already having (very) fast MF lenses available at the 21, 35, 40, 50 and 75mm FL's, Zeiss better hurry, if they still want a piece of that particular cake.
Oct 09, 2020 at 05:26 AM
p.37 #20Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
AcuteShadows wrote:
I'm even wondering if the Batis, Loxia & Milvus lines are considered a success..I'm not even sure whether their lens business depends primarily on their own finished products. The Zeiss CEO said that slow business in lenses was caused by lagging demand "from our customers Canon and Nikon". https://www.swp.de/suedwesten/staedte/heidenheim/zeiss-oberkochen-gute-bilanz-das-zehnte-rekordjahr-in-folge-41480123.htmlMy interpretation of the phrase "Unsere Kunden Canon und Nikon" is not that Canon and Nikon are themselves customers, rather it is referring to their Canon and Nikon customers, ie people who buy Zeiss SLR lenses. I just checked with a native German speaking camera geek friend, and he thinks this is probably right (although the way it's written does leave the other interpretation open)I'm a German native speaker, and I would find "unsere Kunden Canon und Nikon" an odd way to refer to customers of Zeiss that use Canon and Nikon products. "haben Rückgänge" would translate to "experience lack [of demand]", and that expression would also rather refer to companies than to customers. They way I read it, I think the CEO refers to the companies, but I would concede that there is some room for alternative interpretations.Thanks. Yes my friend (and my own limited understanding) agrees it's the most natural way of reading it, but combined with the fact that their Canon Mount and Nikon Mount sales are known to have plummeted, and that if they do have non-trivial direct sales to Canon or Nikon we don't know about, this would be an odd way to announce it, makes the alternative less natural interpretation more attractive.Re-reading the whole paragraph, I'm more and more convinced that the Zeiss CEO may actually have said something different than what we see here in the direct quote.
Thanks for posting. Always interesting when we get to read official sales data from Zeiss.
My understanding of the same: Among all the very positive sales news among their main product divisions, Zeiss is reporting less positive news for overall consumer lens sales, with a double digital decline of Canon/Nikon [DSLR mount] consumer lens sales. Seems Zeiss reports these consumer lens sales losses can be partially offset by the sales of high-end videography lenses.
No surprise IMO that ZEISS DSLR lens sales are dropping as Canon, Nikon begin their own transitions into mirrorless with closed mount. However, also seems all consumer Zeiss [camera] lens sales are down just not as much as C/N DSLR lens sales including mirrorless lines too. Again no surprise given the overall market decline and consumer spending reaction to the pandemic.
Even more interesting combined with the above, is that Zeiss may have decided to move forward with the ZX1, IF the USA B&H preorder listing is an accurate indicator.
DavidBM wrote
AcuteShadows wrote
DavidBM wrote
AcuteShadows wrote
Sinasina wrote
Zeiss is doing just fine yes, but that does not mean they would continue making consumer level -made in Japan- camera lenses, if nothing they do in that segment is successful, potentially including this Camera.I'm even wondering if the Batis, Loxia & Milvus lines are considered a success..
Thanks for posting. Always interesting when we get to read official sales data from Zeiss.
My understanding of the same: Among all the very positive sales news among their main product divisions, Zeiss is reporting less positive news for overall consumer lens sales, with a double digital decline of Canon/Nikon [DSLR mount] consumer lens sales. Seems Zeiss reports these consumer lens sales losses can be partially offset by the sales of high-end videography lenses.
No surprise IMO that ZEISS DSLR lens sales are dropping as Canon, Nikon begin their own transitions into mirrorless with closed mount. However, also seems all consumer Zeiss [camera] lens sales are down just not as much as C/N DSLR lens sales including mirrorless lines too. Again no surprise given the overall market decline and consumer spending reaction to the pandemic.
Even more interesting combined with the above, is that Zeiss may have decided to move forward with the ZX1, IF the USA B&H preorder listing is an accurate indicator.
Oct 09, 2020 at 05:42 AM