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Archive 2018 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 40mm f/2 CF ($1,299)

  
 
zeitlos
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p.19 #1 · p.19 #1 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 40mm f/2 CF ($1,299)


Zeiss was quick and replied just a few moments ago. It's in German, but if you want to read it in English you can use Google translate.

What they are basically saying is that there scientifically cannot be a link between eye-af reliability and the lens you use. So there's nothing they can do, it's only the camera...

What to do now? Anyone who also got an answer form Zeiss?



"vielen Dank für Ihre Anfrage.
Das Batis 2/40 CF wurde von uns ausführlichst mit allen AF Funktionen aller aktuellen Sony E-mount Kameragehäusen getestet. Die AF-Genauigkeit hängt, auch bei der Nutzen der Augen-AF Funktion, ausschließlich vom Kameragehäuse, von den gewählten Einstellungen und den Umgebungsbedingungen ab. Ein direkter Einfluss auf den Augen-AF durch das Objektiv ist nicht möglich. In praktischer Anwendung ist die Treffergenauigkeit des Augen-AF bei günstigen Licht-/Kontrast-/Motiv-Bedingungen relativ hoch (>80%), bei ungünstigen Bedingungen teilweise deutlich geringer. Das Batis 2/40 unterscheidet sich hier unter Laborbedingungen nicht von anderen AF-E-mount Objektiven in vergleichbarer Brennweiten- und Lichtstärken-Klasse.

Für einen möglichst zuverlässigen Augen-AF sollte die AF-C Funktion gewählt werden, und vor allem die Blende nicht zu weit geschlossen sein.

Falls Sie Ihr individuelles Objektiv-Exemplar bei uns testen lassen möchten, können Sie es jederzeit an unseren Service einsenden. Sie finden die Details zu einer Service-Einsendung unter

https://www.zeiss.de/camera-lenses/service/reparaturen/fotoobjektive.html"




Nov 05, 2018 at 10:06 AM
killermac
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p.19 #2 · p.19 #2 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 40mm f/2 CF ($1,299)


I have received the same answer and I do have exactly the same issue. Eye-AF is a big issue. If I use the normal Focus Spot it nails focus but Eye-AF is nearly always out of focus slightly. It gets worse if you get closer to the subject. This is really annoying and means the lens is not very usable for portraits.


Nov 05, 2018 at 10:42 AM
killermac
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p.19 #3 · p.19 #3 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 40mm f/2 CF ($1,299)


Sorry if I have overseen any kind of question for me.
I got also an following answer with respect to the closing of the aperture if you close at minimum focus distance to 4,0 - the lens internally automatically stops down to f 8,0! and so on. That is also really annoying



Nov 05, 2018 at 10:44 AM
killermac
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p.19 #4 · p.19 #4 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 40mm f/2 CF ($1,299)




Simon Barker wrote:
I already asked killermac but didn't receive a response, could you try shooting in AF-S and see if it front focuses? My copy is definitely suffering from it although it's only slightly out and it's very obvious when the viewfinder is magnified but of course mirrorless doesn't let you micro adjust so there's no way to fix it...

I've contacted Zeiss support and will see what they say.


Where have you asked me? Do I have missed the question? Sorry.



Nov 05, 2018 at 10:47 AM
Simon Barker
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p.19 #5 · p.19 #5 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 40mm f/2 CF ($1,299)


killermac wrote:
Where have you asked me? Do I have missed the question? Sorry.


Back on page 17, I just asked you to confirm if you saw front focusing in AF-S but as I've clarified now it only happens when I use AF with a magnified view or eye AF.




Nov 05, 2018 at 11:02 AM
Simon Barker
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p.19 #6 · p.19 #6 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 40mm f/2 CF ($1,299)


zeitlos wrote:
What they are basically saying is that there scientifically cannot be a link between eye-af reliability and the lens you use. So there's nothing they can do, it's only the camera...

What to do now? Anyone who also got an answer form Zeiss?


They can say whatever they want, so far I've found:

AF-S with magnified viewfinder always results in front focusing at f/2 (at short distances around 1-2cm off target).
AF-C with eye AF at f/2 always results in front focusing (tip of the nose in focus rather than the eyes).

I have not had this issue with any other lenses so it can't be the camera, it's clearly a fault with the Zeiss 2/40 and not acceptable in a $200 lens let alone a $1300 one.

If they don't promise a resolution I will have to return mine which would be a real shame as I'm very happy with it otherwise.



Nov 05, 2018 at 11:06 AM
Tirpitz666
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p.19 #7 · p.19 #7 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 40mm f/2 CF ($1,299)


Does the lens consistently miss with Eye-AF even in AF-C?

Zeiss' answer is pretty clear in stating that it should work definitely better in AF-C and with the aperture not too stopped down.

In more general terms, it seems pretty clear to me that as of now, nor Sony nor Zeiss are too keen to produce (or it's simply not technically possible) an interchangeable replacement of the RX1's Sonnar 35/2. I'm pretty curious to see how the ZX1's lens will fare in that department..




Nov 05, 2018 at 11:09 AM
killermac
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p.19 #8 · p.19 #8 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 40mm f/2 CF ($1,299)


It consistently miss focus with Eye-Af also with aperture 2,0. this is not acceptable and a real shame. I think I have to return mine as well :-(


Nov 05, 2018 at 11:21 AM
Kalainen
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p.19 #9 · p.19 #9 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 40mm f/2 CF ($1,299)


killermac wrote:
I have received the same answer and I do have exactly the same issue. Eye-AF is a big issue. If I use the normal Focus Spot it nails focus but Eye-AF is nearly always out of focus slightly. It gets worse if you get closer to the subject. This is really annoying and means the lens is not very usable for portraits.

Unfortunately I cannot offer much help here as I don't have a current Sony body with Eye-AF. Just wanted to ask if you have the latest Sony firmware in your camera body? If it's not the latest (which I believe came little while ago for mark III bodies), it is still worth to try out even if I'm not sure it it will make a difference. just trying to figure out something that might help you...

Oh, and if you can make a clear showcase (good light, easy subject, different distances and description of what kind of continuities there with this error behaviour), you should definitely send pics to Zeiss and let them look at them. They might have some sort of an error and they will catch up when they see systematic error behavior (rather than just one e-mail without clear test scenario). Kind of extra work, but might be worthwhile to track it down..

Edited on Nov 05, 2018 at 11:38 AM · View previous versions



Nov 05, 2018 at 11:31 AM
Simon Barker
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p.19 #10 · p.19 #10 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 40mm f/2 CF ($1,299)


Tirpitz666 wrote:
Does the lens consistently miss with Eye-AF even in AF-C?


Yes its behaviour is very consistent.

Tirpitz666 wrote:
Zeiss' answer is pretty clear in stating that it should work definitely better in AF-C and with the aperture not too stopped down.


AF-C doesn't seem to help, eye AF is well out in AF-C.

The comment about having to stop down annoys me, if I wanted to stop down I wouldn't have bought an f/2 lens. If it can't focus wide open, then it's faulty regardless of the cause.

Their earlier comment lays the blame on the camera but if that's the case we'd be seeing the issue with other lenses, especially those with much larger apertures as this lens is only f/2.

Tirpitz666 wrote:
In more general terms, it seems pretty clear to me that as of now, nor Sony nor Zeiss are too keen to produce (or it's simply not technically possible) an interchangeable replacement of the RX1's Sonnar 35/2. I'm pretty curious to see how the ZX1's lens will fare in that department..


If I didn't use eye AF or AF with magnified view I would have never encountered a problem, as it works fine in normal conditions this sounds much more like a firmware issue than a design flaw.



Nov 05, 2018 at 11:34 AM
Simon Barker
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p.19 #11 · p.19 #11 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 40mm f/2 CF ($1,299)


Kalainen wrote:
Unfortunately I cannot offer much help here as I don't have a current Sony body with Eye-AF. Just wanted to ask if you have the latest Sony firmware in your camera body? If it's not the latest (which I believe came little while ago for mark III bodies), it is still worth to try out even if I'm not sure it it will make a difference. just trying to figure out something that might help you...


You can check on bodies without eye AF, set the camera to AF-S, magnify the viewfinder and then try to focus.

If you're experiencing the same issue it should consistently front focus and be easily visible.



Nov 05, 2018 at 11:39 AM
Kalainen
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p.19 #12 · p.19 #12 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 40mm f/2 CF ($1,299)


Simon Barker wrote:
You can check on bodies without eye AF, set the camera to AF-S, magnify the viewfinder and then try to focus.

If you're experiencing the same issue it should consistently front focus and be easily visible.

If you mean using AF together with magnified view, the Sony A7 MKI doesn't have it (it will just jump out of the magnified view when half pressing the shutter). I believe this feature was introduced with MKIII bodies.




Nov 05, 2018 at 11:47 AM
Radiohead
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p.19 #13 · p.19 #13 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 40mm f/2 CF ($1,299)


So using the lens at f2 with Eye-AF/AF-C results in front focus all the time?

Damn, that's a total deal-breaker.



Nov 05, 2018 at 11:56 AM
killermac
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p.19 #14 · p.19 #14 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 40mm f/2 CF ($1,299)


That is really a deal breaker - I have again mailed Zeiss and post what they will reply.
Bernhard



Nov 05, 2018 at 11:57 AM
Jannik Peters
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p.19 #15 · p.19 #15 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 40mm f/2 CF ($1,299)


I have the eye AF issue with my FE 1.4/50 too and it also gets worse the closer I get. Are you both wure that it is really ok with the other lenses?


Nov 05, 2018 at 12:07 PM
Kalainen
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p.19 #16 · p.19 #16 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 40mm f/2 CF ($1,299)


Radiohead wrote:
So using the lens at f2 with Eye-AF/AF-C results in front focus all the time?

Damn, that's a total deal-breaker.

If there's a systematic error, and it does sound like there is indeed, Zeiss will of course fix it. After all, all their other Batis lenses work with Eye-AF and I don't think it's their intention to make one lens work differently. But it might be worth to wait a bit and see when this possible issue gets solved. Nothing more frustrating than working the a half functioning lens - my condolences to all of those who already have a lens and cannot get it work...




Nov 05, 2018 at 12:08 PM
killermac
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p.19 #17 · p.19 #17 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 40mm f/2 CF ($1,299)


Kalainen wrote:
If there's a systematic error, and it does sound like there is indeed, Zeiss will of course fix it. After all, all their other Batis lenses work with Eye-AF and I don't think it's their intention to make one lens work differently. But it might be worth to wait a bit and see when this possible issue gets solved. Nothing more frustrating than working the a half functioning lens - my condolences to all of those who already have a lens and cannot get it work...



Do you not have this issue with Eye-AF?
Are the users able to update the firmware via the Sony-App? Or do you have to send it to Zeiss?
IF they came up with a solution.



Nov 05, 2018 at 12:09 PM
zeitlos
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p.19 #18 · p.19 #18 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 40mm f/2 CF ($1,299)


Kalainen wrote:
If there's a systematic error, and it does sound like there is indeed, Zeiss will of course fix it. After all, all their other Batis lenses work with Eye-AF and I don't think it's their intention to make one lens work differently. But it might be worth to wait a bit and see when this possible issue gets solved. Nothing more frustrating than working the a half functioning lens - my condolences to all of those who already have a lens and cannot get it work...




That's what's really disturbing and disappointing. They told me in the mail quoted above that there's no need to fix anything. If you read it carefully they kind of say it's not the lens having a problem with the camera, it's the camera having a problem with the lens.

"Consisting" doesn't mean that all pictures taken with eye-af aren't sharp. Yesterday I took 43 different pictures, 18 fo them were really sharp. You can even see the problem when just looking through the viewfinder. The focus behaves very nervously, even when the motive dosen't move at all. It jumps from the center of the eye to the eyebrow or start with detecting the nose first as the eye before jumping to the eye.
When using other lenses the subject can even move and it's liked glued to the eye. This one's horrible.

Zeiss doesn't see a problem that's the problem. I will return mine tomorrow. If it were a 200 Euro lens I would accept a (possible) workaround, but not for a lens that expensive and bearing this name (Zeiss!!!!!!!!) which I thought is about quality.

As I said, I appreciate them answering that fast, but it's a "there's no problem" mail which is funny since I got lots of other lenses and not a single one of them once behaved like this.

I still hope that lots of people pop up over the time saying that there copy works perfectly so I can buy again. But reading German forums and also international forums, all of them are pretty unanimously stating the same problem, so I'm not that confident for the moment, especially since the speaker of the company who answered my mail seems to say "that's it".

I'm sad since I have been waiting for this one for a long time and bought it the very first second it was available. Marketing won't be able to boost sales if people who own(ed) it say you can't use it properly. Quiet disastrous.



Nov 05, 2018 at 12:27 PM
Kalainen
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p.19 #19 · p.19 #19 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 40mm f/2 CF ($1,299)


killermac wrote:
Do you not have this issue with Eye-AF?
Are the users able to update the firmware via the Sony-App? Or do you have to send it to Zeiss?
IF they came up with a solution.

I have a Sony A7 MKI body, so I don't have Eye-AF and therefore I cannot test it. I don't doubt your testing, but you haven't specified that you can confirm the error in optimal conditions (light and different focusing distances). I believe lens firmware updates are done at Zeiss (at least my Touit 2.8/12 were updated there). If this is a Zeiss error, I believe they will fix it. Can it be Sony error? I don't know, perhaps that's a possibility too, but then Zeiss should also see it as well as anyone else.




Nov 05, 2018 at 12:30 PM
Tirpitz666
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p.19 #20 · p.19 #20 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 40mm f/2 CF ($1,299)


Just to clarify, Zeiss' answers says to NOT stop down too much to achieve best Eye-AF results, not the other way round (quite strange indeed, since stopped down the deper DOF would most likely hide any Front-focussing problem, maybe it has to do with quantity of light that hits the on-sensors' AF points).

Anyway, ther front-focussing issue with Eye-AF for what I've read should most likely be a body problem rather than a lens-related one.

@Simon: do you have any other fast lenses that focus correctly with Eye-AF wide-open in AF-C?



Nov 05, 2018 at 12:32 PM
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