So I've been using a multi-flash setup both on location and in studio for quite a while, but I've always used 3-4 identical units (Yongnuo mostly) so setting ratios is easy. I'm looking at switching to Godox and am thinking of the following kit:
- 1 x AD 200
- 2 x TT685 (or V860)
- 2 x TT350
So my question is will the AD200 severely overpower the other smaller flashes? Should I skip the TT350's and pick up a second AD200 instead? My intended all-purpose setup would be:
AD200 - Key light
TT685's - off camera model and/ or background fill lights
TT350's - on-camera fill lights, hair lights, rim lights, snooted or diffused to highlight specific areas on the model or background
I've got about $750-$1000 USD to play with, but I don't mind building the kit up more gradually if having 2 AD200's right off the bat would be more valuable. If I'm going to be popping the 350's and maybe even the 685's at full power all the time just to keep up with the AD200, I may switch out a couple of the smaller units for a second AD200 and add more units to the kit later on.
The TT350s are pretty dang tiny and not powerful. I only use them in quick spurts on camera during getting ready or small events when I'm not doing a ton of flash work. - I wouldn't consider using them in any other scenario.
The 685/860s pair well with the AD200s, particularly if you're using larger modifier on the AD200s. I would shoot for 2x AD200 and 2x 685/860 to start with.
The AD200 goes down to 1/128 power, so overpowering the smaller flashes shouldn't be a problem.
One big positive if you get 2 AD200s is that you can double them up on the AD-B2 if you ever find yourself in a situation where you need more juice.
I love the AD200s, and have 3 of them. Also have a couple of 685s which never get used, and an AD600 which only comes out occasionally. The 200s just hit that sweet spot of power, price and portability. I've been considering selling the other lights and picking up another couple of 200s.
Another thing, if you're moving to Godox/Flashpoint, make sure you get the X-Pro trigger. It's a huge improvement over the X1.
Yeah... that's the plan, will definitely be getting the X-Pro.
Thanks for the input guys. I think I'll drop the 350's for now then and maybe do 2xAD200 and one 685 to start off with.
What are your favorite modifiers for the AD200? I was going to start with the barn-door and color filter set and then maybe look into some portable soft boxes... any softbox models you'd recommend? I've seen both glowing and terrible reviews of the Godox ones.
TBH I'd just do three AD200s and two twin head brackets. Are you ever in need of shooting events with a speedlight bracketed on camera? If the answer is no, then you never need to get a speedlight. In every other way a speedlight is expected to work, the AD200 works better - by miles - and offers functionality a speedlight can't. Bare bulb fills modifiers better. Twin bracket has a modeling light and rugged mount integrated. It also allows you to gang up lights for a 400ws head in a far more elegant method than any multi speedlight mount.
FWIW I shoot most of my work with just two light sources, but I can see why a third light source would be handy. Speaking for myself, if I was in your position, I'd get however many 200s, the twin bracket and the XPro trigger my budget would allow, and work with that until I could pick up a third, and maybe eventually fourth 200.
I occasionally do need an on-camera flash for events so at least one 685 will be necessary... but I think I will stick with just one. It'll be my hair light or secondary fill for back grounds etc and go with two AD200's to start.
So what are your favorite portable modifiers for the AD 200? The grid/gel/barndoor set is a no-brainer... but what about soft/octa boxes? I like the idea of the AD-S7, but I'm worried that the flash bares the full weight of it instead of the light stand.
sungphoto wrote:
I guess I'd say first off, that your question doesn't really have an answer in a vacuum.
All depends on what you're lighting, the look you're going for, the problems you're trying to solve.
Second, I'd ask why so many lights?
I shoot a pretty broad range of subjects and don't always have access to my locations ahead of time to plan, so I'm looking for a portable, flexible, all-purpose kit that I can easily adapt to whatever situation I'm thrown into. 90% of the time there's a human element at the heart of the shoot, but could be anything from headshots to groups of 3-5 people. (I shoot a lot of events, concerts, theatre etc).
As for why so many lights? Well my general setup is a 3 light Key/Fill/background or rim light setup. I can get away with two lights in the short term, but I'm most comfortable with 3 lights, and a light on the side as backup in case one fails during a shoot... or for tricky situations where a 4th light is needed for whatever reason... it's happens frequently enough for me.
Well, in the end only you know whether it's going to be enough power. The TT685s are about the same power as the Canon/Nikon yongnuo clones, so if you found the YNs lacking then the TT685s won't be enough power either..
The mini godox speedlite is really more for hobbyists that want something small to tuck away - so I'd personally skip it as the TT685 is just about perfect power wise for general usage.
There's nothing wrong with building a setup around speedlites - so if you just want to replicate your yongnuo setup with TT685s, they're not a bad route to go. The speedlites are more confusing to set up though as triggers and receivers though - whereas the UI for the dedicated strobes are more straight forward as they're not really being asked to do as many things as the swiss army knife speedlite.
Personally if I were building a "general purpose" lighting kit for unpredictable situations, I'd just have 2-3 AD200s and 1-2 TT685s.
The AD600 is an awesome light, but unless you're looking for quick recycle times and lots of power when you need to stop down a lot and/or use large modifiers it's overkill for most people.
Yeah, that's the way I'm leaning @sungphoto ... I'm not really worried about the power of the flashes themselves, more the power ratio between the various units. I didn't want to be popping the smaller units at full blast just to keep up with the AD200 at half power. My Yongnuo setup has plenty of power for most of my shoots, but I'd like the AD200 as my main light for those times when a speedlight just isn't enough... my main reason for switching is:
- having HSS
- TTL for those shoots where I have absolutely no time for setup or test shots
- better wireless consistency... I'm finding my Yongnuo's are great, for what they cost, but they're far from perfect and as I get booked for increasingly bigger budget gigs, miss-fires and equipment fiddling will just make me look unproffessional
It seems like 1-2 AD200's and a TT685 is a good starting point, with the final kit ending up pretty much as you describe.
Agreed for the most part, though I did get a chuckle with your use of the phrase "nothing wrong with speedlights" followed shortly with "here's what's wrong with speedlights - they're awkward and workflow is cumbersome"
They're also poor performers in a large source; they also have finicky or cheaply made modifiers, whereas the Bowens system that links up with the twin bracket is both inexpensive, yet not cheap.
You're totally right to suggest more context is needed. But for the most part I think you can light most subjects with just two light sources.
sungphoto wrote:
Well, in the end only you know whether it's going to be enough power. The TT685s are about the same power as the Canon/Nikon yongnuo clones, so if you found the YNs lacking then the TT685s won't be enough power either..
The mini godox speedlite is really more for hobbyists that want something small to tuck away - so I'd personally skip it as the TT685 is just about perfect power wise for general usage.
There's nothing wrong with building a setup around speedlites - so if you just want to replicate your yongnuo setup with TT685s, they're not a bad route to go. The speedlites are more confusing to set up though as triggers and receivers though - whereas the UI for the dedicated strobes are more straight forward as they're not really being asked to do as many things as the swiss army knife speedlite.
Personally if I were building a "general purpose" lighting kit for unpredictable situations, I'd just have 2-3 AD200s and 1-2 TT685s.
The AD600 is an awesome light, but unless you're looking for quick recycle times and lots of power when you need to stop down a lot and/or use large modifiers it's overkill for most people....Show more →
jlafferty wrote:
Agreed for the most part, though I did get a chuckle with your use of the phrase "nothing wrong with speedlights" followed shortly with "here's what's wrong with speedlights - they're awkward and workflow is cumbersome"
They're also poor performers in a large source; they also have finicky or cheaply made modifiers, whereas the Bowens system that links up with the twin bracket is both inexpensive, yet not cheap.
You're totally right to suggest more context is needed. But for the most part I think you can light most subjects with just two light sources.
Ha well when I first started out primarily doing family portraits, lifestyley model/actor pics, headshots and stuff in corporate environments and the occasional wedding, speedlites were ok because they fit my budget. I think I got 3 yongnuos off of craigslist for like $40 each and they did ok for what I needed them for, but I outgrew them really quickly as at that point I really preferred to shoot a lot (as in quickly so needed faster recycle times)
Now that I do mostly commercial work, some multi-day high volume portrait stuff, and much less family portraits and weddings (I honestly turn down more weddings nowadays then I saw yes to) I have a pretty broad spread of lighting for all those situations. My godox kit is 2 AD600s, 2 AD200s, 1 AD360 and 2 TT685s, and my Profoto kit is 4 B1s and I'm on the lookout for one D1 Air for the high volume work.
In the end I think we're on the same page that it has to make sense budget wise in terms of your revenue coming in versus your investment.
If I were to do it all again starting out, I'd just get 1 speedlite, a collapsible 5-in-1 reflector, and an AD200, a photek softlighter, and call it a day
SmegHead wrote:
My Yongnuo setup has plenty of power for most of my shoots ...
If I were you I would:
1. Order one AD200 and play with it against YN that I (you) already have and that would answer my question would Godox speedlight deliver enough power for what I have in mind (hair light, whatever ...). You might be surprised. Advantage of bare bulb is that it fills big modifiers beautifully. Advantage of speedlight is fresnel that lets it throw more focused beam farther.
2. If I find that speedlight will pair up nicely with AD200 I would consider V860 rather than TT685 so I can get long life LiIon battery in it gives.
3. I would also consider KISS, like jlafferty suggested, and just go with AD200s. One AD200 is practically same size and weight as one V860. AD200 has option of fresnel head (OK, its not same but it still might be able to do the job).
..... 3. I would also consider KISS, like jlafferty suggested, and just go with AD200s. One AD200 is practically same size and weight as one V860. AD200 has option of fresnel head (OK, its not same but it still might be able to do the job).
I agree.
I currently have two AD200's and one 860 II. I wanted something on-camera, for fast mobile shooting, but I wanted two AD200's for the option of doubling them up into one softbox, outside. You can balance a single 200 with an 860 fill light pretty well, and because the Xpro has the ability to bump all your lights up & down while maintaining your ratio, things are fairly simple.
However, then the EC200 head extender came out, and changed everything. Now I have one AD200 head on-camera, and I find the difference, in a 2-flash shoot, to be worth the expense. (Well heck, I had the thing, anyway.) I just find it easier to guess at ratios when both flashes are the same.
Also, recycle time is vastly improved, since the 860 is no longer slowing me down.
And finally, all my modifiers are now interchangable, to some extent. (for instance, you can use a Magmod gel system inside a softbox.)
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I'm now going to replace the 860 with another AD200, for the above reasons, and also because then I will have only ONE type of battery & charger to deal with.
And finally, if I'm outside and using two AD200's in one box, I doubt the 860 will be enough as a fill light. (though I haven't tried it yet.)
And even more finally: If one AD200 even goes bad on an important 2-light shoot, I have a spare.
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BTW - I highly recommend anyone with even a single AD200 to get the head extender. It makes things much safer. (Plus, combined with a straight 4" hotshoe rail, an on-camera AD200 actually becomes a possibility!)
SmegHead wrote:
Yeah... that's the plan, will definitely be getting the X-Pro.
Thanks for the input guys. I think I'll drop the 350's for now then and maybe do 2xAD200 and one 685 to start off with.
What are your favorite modifiers for the AD200? I was going to start with the barn-door and color filter set and then maybe look into some portable soft boxes... any softbox models you'd recommend? I've seen both glowing and terrible reviews of the Godox ones.
I'd like to hear opinions too.
- But I would also caution not to invest too heavily right now. Magmod's new "Magbox" system should be out around Springtime next year, and it could be a game-changer. Even if their system doesn't suit you, I expect all the other manufacturers will start to make similar systems, based around really strong magnetic mounts.
