p.10 #1 · Loxia 25mm f/2.4 Distagon Tests and Comparisons
Fred, yes I agree. Generally for me this is just a benefit as I almost exclusively shoot in forest, but let's say one would live in desert where there is just sand (gray/brown/tan) this would be really annoying.
What I have learned in past 20 years while studying and trying to understand lens rendering styles, is that I very rarely find "technically perfect lenses" (lack of CA in various forms, high sharpness & contrast, etc.) to have pleasing rendering styles. I always end up loving lenses, which have some faults and quite systematically I get disappointed to "technically" high performing lenses. There are some rare exceptions like Zeiss ZE/ZF/Milvus APO 2/135, Zeiss Otus series and Leica M-series 50mm APO; these lenses seem to be technically good and still have pleasing rendering style.
p.10 #2 · Loxia 25mm f/2.4 Distagon Tests and Comparisons
Samuli Vahonen wrote:
Fred, yes I agree. Generally for me this is just a benefit as I almost exclusively shoot in forest, but let's say one would live in desert where there is just sand (gray/brown/tan) this would be really annoying.
What I have learned in past 20 years while studying and trying to understand lens rendering styles, is that I very rarely find "technically perfect lenses" (lack of CA in various forms, high sharpness & contrast, etc.) to have pleasing rendering styles. I always end up loving lenses, which have some faults and quite systematically I get disappointed to "technically" high performing lenses. There are some rare exceptions like Zeiss ZE/ZF/Milvus APO 2/135, Zeiss Otus series and Leica M-series 50mm APO; these lenses seem to be technically good and still have pleasing rendering style.
Samuli,
Have you tried the Otus 28/1.4 APO? I curious how this lens renders but never tested one. Its weight and filter thread are its main drawbacks to me.
The 135/2 APO and 50mm APO-Summicron are indeed well corrected while rendering is still beautiful. Very few lenses can do that.
p.10 #3 · Loxia 25mm f/2.4 Distagon Tests and Comparisons
Back and forth, back and forth. Loxia 25 or Milvus 25? I finally made the plunge before the Zeiss discount ended: the Milvus won. That was my plan originally, before the Loxia was announced, and I finally picked it (again) because it can do things that the Loxia can't (f/1.4), and it's apparently a tiny bit sharper.
Oh well. I hope I like my choice. It arrived a little while ago, to be unboxed shortly. I'll get out to the local state park in a few days to give it a try.
p.10 #4 · Loxia 25mm f/2.4 Distagon Tests and Comparisons
Fred Miranda wrote:
Samuli,
Have you tried the Otus 28/1.4 APO? I curious how this lens renders but never tested one. Its weight and filter thread are its main drawbacks to me.
Fred, no I haven't had a change to try it. Sometimes I wish I would still live in USA and could just rent a lens for a week with reasonable price. Here we just do not have camera/lens renting business. I have studied enough RAW-files and large image samples to see that Otus 28 would be very good lens for me what comes to rendering style. It's not perfect, vignetting is little strong for my taste and lens need to be closed down for edge/corner boke quality improvement.
Size and weight holds me back, filter thread not so much - for sure it would be big cost to buy polarizer and ND-filter for this lens, but that would be OK, as it is just a one time expense. The main reason why I did not get Otus 28 is that I know too many cases, where small knock to lens or handling camera bag little too rough have caused lens breakdown and in all cases lens repair cost has been almost the price of the lens. I'm not brave enough to buy fragile lens for hiking and to be in car trunk on crappy gravel roads for tens of thousands of kilometers.
Well, never say never - one day if I get enough pist off for not having fast 28mm I may buy Otus 28. Today, not enough pist off...
p.10 #5 · Loxia 25mm f/2.4 Distagon Tests and Comparisons
Samuli Vahonen wrote:
What I have learned in past 20 years while studying and trying to understand lens rendering styles, is that I very rarely find "technically perfect lenses" (lack of CA in various forms, high sharpness & contrast, etc.) to have pleasing rendering styles. I always end up loving lenses, which have some faults and quite systematically I get disappointed to "technically" high performing lenses.
Samuli
Honestly, to me the Loxia 25mm is a classic in the making. I lugged around a set of the old ZE/ZF/ZK lenses for years, the last four years with adapter on the Sony A7R series, despite the weight bothering me, simply because I could not part with the rendering. The handling with adapter was awkward really.
The first few images of the Loxia 25mm were enough to assure me that I will enjoy the lens a lot for many years to come. A bit less obvious bokeh fringing would have been nice, but there is so much right about this lens against a little wrong. The weight to me is crucial, because I can now fill a small bag with the A7RII and two or three Loxia's and carry the bag around for a day's walking. For me this is a huge positive: true Zeiss rendering and lightweight carrying.
p.10 #7 · Loxia 25mm f/2.4 Distagon Tests and Comparisons
DannyBurkPhoto wrote:
Back and forth, back and forth. Loxia 25 or Milvus 25? I finally made the plunge before the Zeiss discount ended: the Milvus won. That was my plan originally, before the Loxia was announced, and I finally picked it (again) because it can do things that the Loxia can't (f/1.4), and it's apparently a tiny bit sharper.
Oh well. I hope I like my choice. It arrived a little while ago, to be unboxed shortly. I'll get out to the local state park in a few days to give it a try.
Congratulations Danny, I will be very surprised if you aren't very happy with the Milvus. I shot these two lenses side by side for a while to see which I preferred. They both produce excellent results, but in the end I just couldn't part with the Milvus despite its larger size and cost. Its IQ is as good as I will ever need, even if we get 100MP FF sensors, I am confident this lens will deliver. Build and handling are also superb, and in that regard the weather sealed Milvus is much nicer than the Loxia with its close spaced focus/aperture rings and minimal non-rotating sections that make (dis)mounting the lens a pain.
p.10 #8 · Loxia 25mm f/2.4 Distagon Tests and Comparisons
rvh23 wrote:
Congratulations Danny, I will be very surprised if you aren't very happy with the Milvus. I shot these two lenses side by side for a while to see which I preferred. They both produce excellent results, but in the end I just couldn't part with the Milvus despite its larger size and cost. Its IQ is as good as I will ever need, even if we get 100MP FF sensors, I am confident this lens will deliver. Build and handling are also superb, and in that regard the weather sealed Milvus is much nicer than the Loxia with its close spaced focus/aperture rings and minimal non-rotating sections that make (dis)mounting the lens a pain.
Thanks again for your comments here and via PM! That was a major factor in my decision, since you're the only one I know who has directly compared both. I'm sure I'll be pleased. I won't totally rule out the Loxia at some point in case I really, really want to have a compact 25 for hiking, etc. but at present, it's not in my plans. There's only one lens that I still want - the Voigtlander 110/2.5 Apo-Lanthar when it comes out. Then I'm done. Yeah, right.
p.10 #9 · Loxia 25mm f/2.4 Distagon Tests and Comparisons
DannyBurkPhoto wrote:
Back and forth, back and forth. Loxia 25 or Milvus 25? I finally made the plunge before the Zeiss discount ended: the Milvus won. That was my plan originally, before the Loxia was announced, and I finally picked it (again) because it can do things that the Loxia can't (f/1.4), and it's apparently a tiny bit sharper.
Oh well. I hope I like my choice. It arrived a little while ago, to be unboxed shortly. I'll get out to the local state park in a few days to give it a try.
Good choice!
I went with the Milvus 25 mm 1.4 ZE too. I really like the rendering and sharpness. The images blows me away.
It is a large lens but seems less dense as compare to the Milvus 85 mm 1.4.
p.10 #11 · Loxia 25mm f/2.4 Distagon Tests and Comparisons
I did a few test shots at the local state park yesterday, and I'm suitably impressed. Harsh sun most of the day and no clouds, so I didn't do much till evening. I can post a few samples if you (Fred) or others would like to see them.
Sharpness, rendering, color, etc look great starting at f/1.4. Corners are a bit inferior wide open, as you'd expect, but still very good and become nearly as good as the central area within a couple of stops. There is some pretty strong violet fringing on backlit branches against bright sky, but you really wouldn't expect otherwise. That's mostly gone several stops down, and even wide open (on the samples that I did) it was easy to remove in ACR. Great 3D quality too. It's easily the best lens I've used in this focal length - much better than the older f/2 and f/2.8 versions. It's also easier to focus than the latter two. No focus shift that I could detect.
p.10 #12 · Loxia 25mm f/2.4 Distagon Tests and Comparisons
DannyBurkPhoto wrote:
I did a few test shots at the local state park yesterday, and I'm suitably impressed. Harsh sun most of the day and no clouds, so I didn't do much till evening. I can post a few samples if you (Fred) or others would like to see them.
Sharpness, rendering, color, etc look great starting at f/1.4. Corners are a bit inferior wide open, as you'd expect, but still very good and become nearly as good as the central area within a couple of stops. There is some pretty strong violet fringing on backlit branches against bright sky, but you really wouldn't expect otherwise. That's mostly gone several stops down, and even wide open (on the samples that I did) it was easy to remove in ACR. Great 3D quality too. It's easily the best lens I've used in this focal length - much better than the older f/2 and f/2.8 versions. It's also easier to focus than the latter two. No focus shift that I could detect....Show more →
p.10 #13 · Loxia 25mm f/2.4 Distagon Tests and Comparisons
Fred Miranda wrote:
Are you still shooting Canon or exclusively Sony? Can you post some samples at f/1.4?
Sorry for the late response. Kids graduation party and family celebration in progress.
I am shooting Sony only, but prefer Canon Milvus ZE lenses due to build and image quality. I sold my 5D bodies over time as I started transitioning to Sony bodies. I have used these canon lenses and bodies across harshest conditions and they never failed me. Unfortunately they are too large to carry, so I now have 2 Sony A7R III bodies.
I do have a mix of Loxia, Milvus ZE , Zeiss ZM, Canon EF lenses, Sony FE and Sony SAL lenses.
I have been thinking of selling my canon zoom lenses but it was invaluable at my son’s graduation yesterday.
I purchased the Milvus 25 mm for $2199 from Greentoe and just sent in the Zeiss 20% rebate a couple of days ago.
I will shoot some shots in my backyard that has a brick retaining wall as well as trees and can email it to you, if that’s ok with you.
I have been wanting to upload pictures, but I have not setup a website to upload it.
p.10 #14 · Loxia 25mm f/2.4 Distagon Tests and Comparisons
I'm posting Milvus 25 samples here, in the interest of continuing discussion in one place. Fred, if you want to place a duplicate of this post in a suitable Milvus 25 thread, that might be a good idea.
Here are samples from 3 test images. I didn't get much while I was there (conditions weren't good for very long), but I'll annotate the full image + its 100% clips (each cropped to roughly 1200x800 pixels). I've chosen the locations for the clips according to my notes below. Note that there are NO CORRECTIONS for color fringing, distortion, nor vignetting applied.
#1 - Milvus 25 at f/1.4. Full image as shown; this is SOOC with no adjustments other than ACR default sharpening. milvus 25 test 1683 full 1200x800 by D B, on Flickr
Close to upper right corner (one leaf appears to be at POF here too); there wasn't enough detail in the actual corner to show it: milvus 25 test 1683 upperright 1200x800 by D B, on Flickr
#2 - Full image, shot at f/8; there are moderate corrections for tonality and contrast, but none for color fringing, distortion, nor vignetting. milvus 25 test 1680 full 1200x800 by D B, on Flickr
#3 - Full image, shot at f/8. Rather than posting more sample clips here, I can email full-sized jpgs to anyone that is interested; I have them at both f/1.4 and f/8. potato creek milvus 25 1703 by D B, on Flickr
p.10 #15 · Loxia 25mm f/2.4 Distagon Tests and Comparisons
DannyBurkPhoto wrote:
#1 - Milvus 25 at f/1.4. Full image as shown; this is SOOC with no adjustments other than ACR default sharpening.
Danny, thanks for posting these samples. Boke is horrible @ f/1.4, specially considering this scene is having very large differences between focus distance and background distance, which usually smoothens the boke just by having gigantic quantity of blur.
How much closing down is needed for the boke to smooth? Based on how bad it looks I would assume you need to close down more than f/1.7. f/2.2? f/2.8? or even more?
p.10 #16 · Loxia 25mm f/2.4 Distagon Tests and Comparisons
Samuli - I have some samples at intermediate apertures, but didn't take a close look at their bokeh. I'll do that in the next day or two and will post again.
In my example posted at f/1.4, it's not actually taken at very close range such as you would see for flower closeups, etc. The leaves that you see at the point of focus are quite large, and I would guess that they are about 4 feet (1.3m) from the camera; if they were closer, I'm sure that you would see much smoother background bokeh as usual when the focus point is very close. When I have time, it would be interesting to compare to the Milvus 35/1.4; its bokeh is generally very smooth, similar to the older Z* version, and more to your taste except that I know you don't like the 35mm focal length!
p.10 #17 · Loxia 25mm f/2.4 Distagon Tests and Comparisons
DannyBurkPhoto wrote:
Samuli - I have some samples at intermediate apertures, but didn't take a close look at their bokeh. I'll do that in the next day or two and will post again.
In my example posted at f/1.4, it's not actually taken at very close range such as you would see for flower closeups, etc. The leaves that you see at the point of focus are quite large, and I would guess that they are about 4 feet (1.3m) from the camera; if they were closer, I'm sure that you would see much smoother background bokeh as usual when the focus point is very close. When I have time, it would be interesting to compare to the Milvus 35/1.4; its bokeh is generally very smooth, similar to the older Z* version, and more to your taste except that I know you don't like the 35mm focal length!...Show more →
Thanks for the samples Danny!
I think Samuli is referring to the rendering roughness at f/1.4 at mid-distance, especially off-axis, and not the amount of blur. Most lenses have a harsher rendering wide open and many improve a lot one step down. I wonder how Milvus and Loxia compare at f/2.4 and f/2.8 rendering-wise.
p.10 #18 · Loxia 25mm f/2.4 Distagon Tests and Comparisons
@Samuli - I checked my tests at other apertures. I only shot them at full stops, so if there is rapid bokeh smoothing at an intermediate aperture, I don't know. Anyway, there is very little difference from f/1.4 at f/2. At f/2.8, it's much smoother.
p.10 #19 · Loxia 25mm f/2.4 Distagon Tests and Comparisons
DannyBurkPhoto wrote:
@Samuli - I checked my tests at other apertures. I only shot them at full stops, so if there is rapid bokeh smoothing at an intermediate aperture, I don't know. Anyway, there is very little difference from f/1.4 at f/2. At f/2.8, it's much smoother.
Thanks Danny - this is quite typical, I find myself shootin with most lenses 1.333, 1.666 or 2 stops down (I select aperture on many scenes based on when boke becomes high quality, unless composition requires longer DOF). Many of my lenses also behave differently with different focus distances, e.g. most old Zeiss lenses are optimized to infinity and also boke works best on large distances.
Loxia 25 to me seems exceptional as it requires only 0.5 stops to produce good quality boke. But of course it's f/2.4 design, so it's much easier than doing same with f/1.4 design.
