This topic is in the 2017 archive. You can read it and like its posts here. It is read only.
Archive 2017A7rIII pulsating?
p.3 #1A7rIII pulsating?
tn1krr wrote:
That really does not exclude PDAF giving up and falling back CDAF. It is all about light and horizontal contrast; if using flex spot small only single PDAF spot used does not get enough light/contrast say hello to pumping/pulsating. The PDAF points in sensor are not cross type and are very small (and A7RIII has smaller pdaf points than A9 for example) compared to the one used in DSLRs so they will "give up" sooner than large cross type point in the DSLRs do.
The strength of on-sensor PDAF is using several points (they are rather densely grouped) so using Flex...Show more →
I agree and have verified that the med spot does it less...however, you don't always get the area in focus that you desired. I have one question...when using a canon adapted lens with the afc and the small spot...I get a smaller box showing within the small box...like a more precise area...why does this happen only with adapted lenses?
echelonphoto wrote
MY pumping is occurring at wide apertures like 2.8The strength of on-sensor PDAF is using several points (they are rather densely grouped) so using Flex...Show more →
I agree and have verified that the med spot does it less...however, you don't always get the area in focus that you desired. I have one question...when using a canon adapted lens with the afc and the small spot...I get a smaller box showing within the small box...like a more precise area...why does this happen only with adapted lenses?
Dec 13, 2017 at 09:23 AM
p.3 #2A7rIII pulsating?
Viramati wrote:
Would I be right in saying that people who are seeing this are on the updated firmware?
Yes I am now
Would I be right in saying that people who are seeing this are on the updated firmware?
Yes I am now
Dec 13, 2017 at 09:26 AM
p.3 #3A7rIII pulsating?
echelonphoto wrote:
That really does not exclude PDAF giving up and falling back CDAF. It is all about light and horizontal contrast; if using flex spot small only single PDAF spot used does not get enough light/contrast say hello to pumping/pulsating. The PDAF points in sensor are not cross type and are very small (and A7RIII has smaller pdaf points than A9 for example) compared to the one used in DSLRs so they will "give up" sooner than large cross type point in the DSLRs do.
The strength of on-sensor PDAF is using several points (they are rather densely grouped) so using Flex spot Medium/Large or Expand Flex spot will likely to help in many cases. These are not DSLRs, so best results are not obtained by using them like DSLRs which often is using center-spot only.
Like I commented above: put the camera to tripod and point it to a low light object any test will show that larger spot is likely to pulsate less than small and you'll find a spot that will start pulsate when you close the aperture step by step.I agree and have verified that the med spot does it less...however, you don't always get the area in focus that you desired. I have one question...when using a canon adapted lens with the afc and the small spot...I get a smaller box showing within the small box...like a more precise area...why does this happen only with adapted lenses?
The adapted Canon lens in this case uses PDAF focus system only, not hybrid like native lenses do. So in that case only the PDAF point is shown, not the combination of PDAF and CDAF points like with native lenses.
Using only PDAF focus is only available with adapted lenses using adapters (or specific adapter mode like there are in MEtabones) that emulate Sony LA-EA3 A Mount adapter. Here's the relevant Help Guide page
http://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/1710/v1/en/contents/TP0001212154.html
tn1krr wrote
echelonphoto wrote
MY pumping is occurring at wide apertures like 2.8The strength of on-sensor PDAF is using several points (they are rather densely grouped) so using Flex spot Medium/Large or Expand Flex spot will likely to help in many cases. These are not DSLRs, so best results are not obtained by using them like DSLRs which often is using center-spot only.
Like I commented above: put the camera to tripod and point it to a low light object any test will show that larger spot is likely to pulsate less than small and you'll find a spot that will start pulsate when you close the aperture step by step.
The adapted Canon lens in this case uses PDAF focus system only, not hybrid like native lenses do. So in that case only the PDAF point is shown, not the combination of PDAF and CDAF points like with native lenses.
Using only PDAF focus is only available with adapted lenses using adapters (or specific adapter mode like there are in MEtabones) that emulate Sony LA-EA3 A Mount adapter. Here's the relevant Help Guide page
http://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/1710/v1/en/contents/TP0001212154.html
Dec 13, 2017 at 09:27 AM
p.3 #4A7rIII pulsating?
GMPhotography wrote:
Yes I am now
Well let's hope the next update at least works with High Sierra!!
Viramati wrote
Would I be right in saying that people who are seeing this are on the updated firmware?Well let's hope the next update at least works with High Sierra!!
Dec 13, 2017 at 09:36 AM
p.3 #5A7rIII pulsating?
tn1krr wrote:
That really does not exclude PDAF giving up and falling back CDAF. It is all about light and horizontal contrast; if using flex spot small only single PDAF spot used does not get enough light/contrast say hello to pumping/pulsating. The PDAF points in sensor are not cross type and are very small (and A7RIII has smaller pdaf points than A9 for example) compared to the one used in DSLRs so they will "give up" sooner than large cross type point in the DSLRs do.
The strength of on-sensor PDAF is using several points (they are rather densely grouped) so using Flex...Show more →
This should have been similar with the A7rii. But in my experience I only rarely saw that, usually in bad light. Here the user reports even tell it is happening in o.k or good light. I am not sure that flex spot small does mean that you are only using a single PD point pair on the sensor. Could be, but that would be very inefficient, being half masked pixels, when I have time I will calculate it.
echelonphoto wrote
MY pumping is occurring at wide apertures like 2.8The strength of on-sensor PDAF is using several points (they are rather densely grouped) so using Flex...Show more →
This should have been similar with the A7rii. But in my experience I only rarely saw that, usually in bad light. Here the user reports even tell it is happening in o.k or good light. I am not sure that flex spot small does mean that you are only using a single PD point pair on the sensor. Could be, but that would be very inefficient, being half masked pixels, when I have time I will calculate it.
Dec 13, 2017 at 10:47 AM
p.3 #6A7rIII pulsating?
Viramati wrote:
Yes I am nowWell let's hope the next update at least works with High Sierra!!
Apparently, and its been suggested from higher up the food chain, that Sony should look to Canon's FW upgrade workflow.
GMPhotography wrote
Viramati wrote
Would I be right in saying that people who are seeing this are on the updated firmware?Apparently, and its been suggested from higher up the food chain, that Sony should look to Canon's FW upgrade workflow.
Dec 13, 2017 at 02:33 PM
p.3 #8A7rIII pulsating?
Holger wrote:
That really does not exclude PDAF giving up and falling back CDAF. It is all about light and horizontal contrast; if using flex spot small only single PDAF spot used does not get enough light/contrast say hello to pumping/pulsating. The PDAF points in sensor are not cross type and are very small (and A7RIII has smaller pdaf points than A9 for example) compared to the one used in DSLRs so they will "give up" sooner than large cross type point in the DSLRs do.
The strength of on-sensor PDAF is using several points (they are rather densely grouped) so using Flex spot Medium/Large or Expand Flex spot will likely to help in many cases. These are not DSLRs, so best results are not obtained by using them like DSLRs which often is using center-spot only.
Like I commented above: put the camera to tripod and point it to a low light object any test will show that larger spot is likely to pulsate less than small and you'll find a spot that will start pulsate when you close the aperture step by step.This should have been similar with the A7rii. But in my experience I only rarely saw that, usually in bad light. Here the user reports even tell it is happening in o.k or good light. I am not sure that flex spot small does mean that you are only using a single PD point pair on the sensor. Could be, but that would be very inefficient, being half masked pixels, when I have time I will calculate it.
I'm not claiming this has not changed at all from A7RII. A pile of AF related things propably have changed since there supposedly is not 425 CDAF points (whatever that means) instead of 25 we had in A7R II etc. I did not notice this in 3 weeks of active use of A7R III until I specially looked for it; all I saw was AF-C that was overall heaps better than my A7RII and passed in flying colors test where subject walks towards me in quite low light; same test where my old A7RII rarely got more than one shot out of 6 or 7 in decent focus.
The PDAF grid on both A7RII and A7RIII is 21 x 19 points and the visible AF point grid that gets displayed in LCD/EVF seems to be 15 x 15 (when Phase Detect AF mode is used with adapted glass of wide/zone AF mode) so what one sees on the screen does not map 1:1 to actual PDAF points. I'm not so sure this matters actually so much since we've already established that smaller aperture, smaller AF point and lesser light/contrast leads to this pulsing behavior.
I'm also not convinced yet there is anything to fix with FW upgrade; we have not seen good or heard of a side-by-side comparison between R2 and R3 or observed bad behavior in a very sensible use case; to me using small AF point with AF-C on a static low contrast subject is not one; although that is the way my Canon-using buddy shoots almost exclusively. If we for example see this pulsing behavior on stopped down AF on a subjects face in a case where A7R II still works perfectly ok I'm gonna be the 1st one to hop into "fix this ASAP" train.
tn1krr wrote
echelonphoto wrote
MY pumping is occurring at wide apertures like 2.8The strength of on-sensor PDAF is using several points (they are rather densely grouped) so using Flex spot Medium/Large or Expand Flex spot will likely to help in many cases. These are not DSLRs, so best results are not obtained by using them like DSLRs which often is using center-spot only.
Like I commented above: put the camera to tripod and point it to a low light object any test will show that larger spot is likely to pulsate less than small and you'll find a spot that will start pulsate when you close the aperture step by step.
I'm not claiming this has not changed at all from A7RII. A pile of AF related things propably have changed since there supposedly is not 425 CDAF points (whatever that means) instead of 25 we had in A7R II etc. I did not notice this in 3 weeks of active use of A7R III until I specially looked for it; all I saw was AF-C that was overall heaps better than my A7RII and passed in flying colors test where subject walks towards me in quite low light; same test where my old A7RII rarely got more than one shot out of 6 or 7 in decent focus.
The PDAF grid on both A7RII and A7RIII is 21 x 19 points and the visible AF point grid that gets displayed in LCD/EVF seems to be 15 x 15 (when Phase Detect AF mode is used with adapted glass of wide/zone AF mode) so what one sees on the screen does not map 1:1 to actual PDAF points. I'm not so sure this matters actually so much since we've already established that smaller aperture, smaller AF point and lesser light/contrast leads to this pulsing behavior.
I'm also not convinced yet there is anything to fix with FW upgrade; we have not seen good or heard of a side-by-side comparison between R2 and R3 or observed bad behavior in a very sensible use case; to me using small AF point with AF-C on a static low contrast subject is not one; although that is the way my Canon-using buddy shoots almost exclusively. If we for example see this pulsing behavior on stopped down AF on a subjects face in a case where A7R II still works perfectly ok I'm gonna be the 1st one to hop into "fix this ASAP" train.
Dec 13, 2017 at 03:53 PM
p.3 #9A7rIII pulsating?
tn1krr wrote:
I'm also not convinced yet there is anything to fix with FW upgrade; we have not seen good or heard of a side-by-side comparison between R2 and R3 or observed bad behavior in a very sensible use case; to me using small AF point with AF-C on a static low contrast subject is not one; although that is the way my Canon-using buddy shoots almost exclusively. If we for example see this pulsing behavior on stopped down AF on a subjects face in a case where A7R II still works perfectly ok I'm gonna be the 1st one to hop...Show more →
I agree this would not make a difference for many users, however AF-C performance with small flexible spot in less than perfect lighting situations is critical for some uses, especially bird photography. Coming from another brand, my interest will be to see how it compares with somewhat comparable high MP cameras from other brands (Nikon’s D850, Canon’s 5DIV or 5DSr) in this regard. Now if only I could receive my camera...
Dec 14, 2017 at 08:06 AM
p.3 #10A7rIII pulsating?
a7R3 pulsates but i never thought this was a problem before i saw this thread. I remeber most cameras doing this including dslr’s in low light less contrast and low apertures.
Mine doesn’t do it in daylight.
Mine doesn’t do it in daylight.
Dec 14, 2017 at 10:15 AM
p.3 #11A7rIII pulsating?
Good to know. Indeed, DSLR’s also have limits. On a number of situations, my 5DSr would not focus, where there seemed to be OK contrast and light. The pulsating in itself does not actually concern me as much as the level of low light when it starts occurring.
Dec 14, 2017 at 11:06 AM
p.3 #12A7rIII pulsating?
I had this pulsating happen a few times with my a7r2 and FE 85/1.8 during some outdoor portraits. I was wide open to ~f2.8 and it seemed to happen when I was farther away and light was more challenging.
Dec 14, 2017 at 11:25 AM
p.3 #13A7rIII pulsating?
Pulsating today with 28f2 lens when in AFC. Not when I used eye af specifically.
Approx
1/125
F2
Iso500
Approx
1/125
F2
Iso500
Dec 14, 2017 at 08:05 PM
p.3 #15A7rIII pulsating?
Will do Mr. M, thank you. Do you think this is just a Band-Aid fix for now? And sony will fix this with FW?
GMPhotography wrote:
Try switch AFC from balanced emphasis to release
GMPhotography wrote:
Try switch AFC from balanced emphasis to release
Dec 14, 2017 at 08:30 PM
p.3 #16A7rIII pulsating?
It’s possible since this AF is diffrent than the A7rII covering more CDAF points and such. I would imagine more widespread as well. My new 28 comes tomorrow so I’ll be checking it for sure
Dec 14, 2017 at 08:53 PM
p.3 #17A7rIII pulsating?
GMPhotography wrote:
Try switch AFC from balanced emphasis to release
I always use focus priority on all cameras. Never had an issue with any in this "pulsating" regard, not with A7rii, too, unless in very dark interiors or for large f-stops.
It sounds as if the AF system was tuned a bit different than that of the A7rii and A9. Need to try myself. But I want the A7riii only shortly before the next wedding season begins next year.
Try switch AFC from balanced emphasis to release
I always use focus priority on all cameras. Never had an issue with any in this "pulsating" regard, not with A7rii, too, unless in very dark interiors or for large f-stops.
It sounds as if the AF system was tuned a bit different than that of the A7rii and A9. Need to try myself. But I want the A7riii only shortly before the next wedding season begins next year.
Dec 15, 2017 at 12:03 AM
p.3 #18A7rIII pulsating?
Again
Has anyone spoken with Sony about this or know that they are aware?
Has anyone spoken with Sony about this or know that they are aware?
Dec 15, 2017 at 07:44 AM
p.3 #19A7rIII pulsating?
My 28mm arrived and its working as it should. No issue
Dec 15, 2017 at 03:13 PM
p.3 #20A7rIII pulsating?
GMPhotography wrote:
My 28mm arrived and its working as it should. No issue
Dec 15, 2017 at 03:39 PM