p.7 #1 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Luvwine wrote:
Question re pixel shift, since it has to be combined in software (Sony software?), how much of an improvement is this over shooting longer focal lengths and stitching?
Pixel shift is all about increasing the effective resolution and has nothing to do with stitching to get a wider FOV by combining multiple overlapping images.
p.7 #2 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Betacamman wrote:
If I didn't have an A7R2 already, I'd be all over this. But I'm pretty set for now.
same here, the A7RIII specs looks great and amazed that they managed to squeeze in dual SD slot but TBH, if you have an A7R2 already, there's little value on upgrading, unless you really want the latest and greatest or want 15 stops DR, no black-out, dual SD, bigger batteries, USB3 (those are the features that I think are nice but don't really need) or you have extra money to burn
A larger EVF might have tempted me though (like what the SL or X-T2 has)
p.7 #3 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Seems like they left the door wide open for an a9r megapixel monster. By repeating the sensor density, they are signaling that something else could be coming. All they would have to do is Basically repeat the specs for the a7r3, put it into an a9 body and give us 80mpx sensor. Printing at 300dpi 24x36!!
That’s my only hesitation here. The a7r3 is really all the camera people who don’t print really big need. But I would like to print really big.
Maybe I wait. I would be upset if Sony releases an a9r in the next 6 months.
Mirror wrote:
How high is the possibility that Sony will realease a A9R with 60MPX?
Oct 25, 2017 at 09:22 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.7 #4 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
This is a very nice upgrade, but let's keep what they accomplished in perspective. The major advantage is better AF, shooting speed, and likely the operating speed of the camera. I think this was important as the 7r series has moved to be a very competitive jack of all trades professional and advanced hobbyist camera. So, in evaluating the camera we will need to know how good the AF actually is. That we won't know for a month or so as people put it through the paces. We also have to know how nimble and quick the operating speed of the camera is. That we will know pretty quickly. In addition, to these advances in speed of the AF and operation of the camera, they also added a number of things that people wanted; dual card slots, a bigger battery, better IBIS, pixel shift for higher resolution with static subjects, a better EVF, looks like a bit better sealing, better video including slog3, and something about increasing the DR to 15 stops (but I still don't quite understand what this claim is based upon). Those are important improvements as well. So, I think this is a great upgrade; incremental but they did address most of the major issues people had with the camera. Not everything, however; I am sure people will still be disappointed that there isn't lossless RAW, and it doesn't look like they have addressed issue with astro shooting either.
Still to keep it real, we need to understand how this camera is different from the A9 and it is I believe in important ways. Here are some of the important ways: 1) the A7r III is clearly designed to be primarily used with a mechanical shutter (at least in EFC mode), whereas the A9 is clearly designed to be primarily used with an electronic shutter. Sure the A7r III will be able to shoot silently, but we can bet that sensor read out will not be faster than 1/50 (which is still much faster than the A7r II) whereas the A9 has a sensor read out of 1/150 as measured by Jim Kasson. That means the silent shutter for the A7r III will have a lot of rolling shutter effect whereas the silent shutter for the A9 has basically none. 2) I will be very surprised in the A7r III actually has zero VF blackout. I expect it will be shorter than the A7r II, but I expect there will still be some black out. The A9 of course has zero view finder blackout. 3) It is becoming more obvious that the claim at SAR that the A7r III has the A9 autofocus was a vague and largely inaccurate claim. I am sure the A7r III will have much improved AF over the A7r II, but I will be very surprised if it is close to the A9. I actually expect it will be about halfway in between the A7rII and the A9, which is still pretty damn good. We already know for example that the A7r III has fewer AF points than the A9, and I think, not surprisingly with the fewer points, the AF also covers less of frame. Next I bet we will learn it isn't quite as fast especially in tracking.
What I think that means is that if you have an A9, I wouldn't be selling it just yet. I don't think the only advantages of the A9 will be that it shoots at 20 fps instead of 10. I think for many types of shooting it will be superior to the A7r III, especially when AF is especially challenging and when you want to shoot a bunch in silent mode. I think the experience of shooting the A9 will also be snappier and the zero blackout will still be a great experience.
p.7 #6 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
jhinkey wrote:
Pixel shift is all about increasing the effective resolution and has nothing to do with stitching to get a wider FOV by combining multiple overlapping images.
Just trying to understand what it gets you. The SR app is great because it combines images and outputs a single raw file. This is useful in reducing noise in the shadows in addition to effectively getting longer exposures. Pixel shift as I understand it, will require combining the images after the fact in software. Yes, it has the effect of gaining resolution, but so will shooting say four images of the same subject using a longer focal length and stitching. Just trying to understand what pixel shift does that is superior. I get it is a different, more convenient process and will work even when one is focal length limited, but it is a shame one has to combine images in post.
p.7 #8 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Great upgrade to the A7R2, but a little disappointed that they didn't up the resolution to at least 60. Maybe it just can't be done at the same time as improving the AF speed and overall responsiveness. I hope the noise at low ISO is improved. Maybe the increased DR is an indicator of that.
p.7 #9 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
the new 24-105 f4 looks promising and I like how it takes the smaller 77mm filter size than 82mm.
this might depreciate the value of the zeiss 24-70 f4 even more.
p.7 #10 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
In other words, the people who love their a9 and use it for the features that differentiate it (your points) probably won’t be served as well with this camera. There are people who bought the a9 bc it adddessed many (most) of the shortcomings with the a7r2. Those people will probably be happier with the a7r3.
Steve Spencer wrote:
This is a very nice upgrade, but let's keep what they accomplished in perspective. The major advantage is better AF, shooting speed, and likely the operating speed of the camera. I think this was important as the 7r series has moved to be a very competitive jack of all trades professional and advanced hobbyist camera. So, in evaluating the camera we will need to know how good the AF actually is. That we won't know for a month or so as people put it through the paces. We also have to know how nimble and quick the operating speed of the camera is. That we will know pretty quickly. In addition, to these advances in speed of the AF and operation of the camera, they also added a number of things that people wanted; dual card slots, a bigger battery, better IBIS, pixel shift for higher resolution with static subjects, a better EVF, looks like a bit better sealing, better video including slog3, and something about increasing the DR to 15 stops (but I still don't quite understand what this claim is based upon). Those are important improvements as well. So, I think this is a great upgrade; incremental but they did address most of the major issues people had with the camera. Not everything, however; I am sure people will still be disappointed that there isn't lossless RAW, and it doesn't look like they have addressed issue with astro shooting either.
Still to keep it real, we need to understand how this camera is different from the A9 and it is I believe in important ways. Here are some of the important ways: 1) the A7r III is clearly designed to be primarily used with a mechanical shutter (at least in EFC mode), whereas the A9 is clearly designed to be primarily used with an electronic shutter. Sure the A7r III will be able to shoot silently, but we can bet that sensor read out will not be faster than 1/50 (which is still much faster than the A7r II) whereas the A9 has a sensor read out of 1/150 as measured by Jim Kasson. That means the silent shutter for the A7r III will have a lot of rolling shutter effect whereas the silent shutter for the A9 has basically none. 2) I will be very surprised in the A7r III actually has zero VF blackout. I expect it will be shorter than the A7r II, but I expect there will still be some black out. The A9 of course has zero view finder blackout. 3) It is becoming more obvious that the claim at SAR that the A7r III has the A9 autofocus was a vague and largely inaccurate claim. I am sure the A7r III will have much improved AF over the A7r II, but I will be very surprised if it is close to the A9. I actually expect it will be about halfway in between the A7rII and the A9, which is still pretty damn good. We already know for example that the A7r III has fewer AF points than the A9, and I think, not surprisingly with the fewer points, the AF also covers less of frame. Next I bet we will learn it isn't quite as fast especially in tracking.
What I think that means is that if you have an A9, I wouldn't be selling it just yet. I don't think the only advantages of the A9 will be that it shoots at 20 fps instead of 10. I think for many types of shooting it will be superior to the A7r III, especially when AF is especially challenging and when you want to shoot a bunch in silent mode. I think the experience of shooting the A9 will also be snappier and the zero blackout will still be a great experience....Show more →
p.7 #12 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
I am on the fence about this one, the lack of support of the apps is one turn off. At this point, my 7r2 is working very nicely, and for my type of shooting I am not sure if its worth upgrading or picking up a second 7r2 as a backup and using the difference to add another lens. I guess I was hoping for a little more resolution and better weather sealing. Ultimately, I will wait to see what the real world reviews say once its released.
Ryan
Oct 25, 2017 at 09:43 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.7 #13 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Let's also do a brief comparison to the Nikon D850. These both look like very good and very competitive cameras. They both have very similar sensors and similar shooting speed. Forty two vs 46 mpix and 10 vs. 9 fps (the D850 needs the grip to go to 9, however) don't seem like huge differentiators. So in resolution and speed they are about equal.
The Nikon has an excellent AF system borrowed from Nikon's highest level of pro cameras, and with DSLRs you literally can borrow the AF system as it is a separate system. We don't know about the A7r III, but it will have improved AF. Will it measure up to the D850? We will see. I am sure Sony pulled out all the stops to try to get to that level, but it might take another generation of mirrorless cameras to get there. Keep in mind, however, that having a separate AF module presents its own challenges and that is a potential concern for a Nikon owner. That separate AF module means the sensor and the AF module have to be carefully aligned and they often aren't and that often depends on the lens meaning that AF micro calibration is needed for each lens and this often results in less than optimum results especially with zooms. So both systems will have their advantages and challenges, but I think a good guess is that Sony will have more accurate AF that covers more of the frame, but the Nikon will have a bit faster AF that tracks a bit better. So, on AF they are different and some will prefer one system to the other but I don't think we will be able to declare one universally better, that is unless Sony really screwed up in its implementation of AF with the A7r III, which I highly doubt.
Dynamic range will also be an interesting comparison The D850 has dynamic range about equal to the D810, which is excellent. The A7r III claims to have a stop better dynamic range than the A7r III which would actually put it just a bit better than the Nikon D850. But, how did Sony achieve this additional dynamic range? Is it always available at low ISO or are some conditions necessary to achieve it? In any event both cameras will be great with DR, but it will be interesting to see which is actually better.
How about high ISO noise? The D850 actually is a bit better at high ISO than the D810 and about matches the A7r II, it looks like the A7r III will perform a lot like the A7r II. So, this again looks like a draw.
How about color? This is going to be subjective and I am betting that fans of both think their camera has better color. Measurement of color at places like DXO will probably measure them as being pretty similar. It is hard for me to see too much of an advantage either way, but this is personal and will matter to some. Pixel shift should produce a color advantage for the A7r III in those cases when it can be used, but its uses are limited to pretty much completely static scenes.
So, I don't think we are going to see huge differentiators between these two cameras on their output and performance. AF is probably the place that we will see that most. Where we will see difference is in preferences for an OVF vs. and EVF, for preferences in ergonomics and menus, for preferences in size and battery life, and in the importance of video for your shooting (here I think the Sony has a clear advantage), and in the importance given to IBIS.
So, in my view these two camera are great competitors and they are great all around cameras. Reasonable people will will disagree in their preference for one camera over the other, but I also think that means Sony did a great job with this upgrade, because I think Nikon did a great job with the D850.
p.7 #14 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
I think Nikon will have some slight advantages with the D850 but Sony will still have it's smaller size, IBIS, and EVF. Nikon or Canon can't compete on those 3, and for a lot of people, those are killer features.
p.7 #17 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
ZachOly wrote:
Can't believe some people are disappointed in this.
This is a pretty massive upgrade and certainly more than we've seen from the 5D3->5D4 or D810->D850.
Anything more spec wise would most likely be priced similar to the A9 or higher.
what's Sony camera life-cycle versus versus Canon or Nikon?
are these upgrades life changing that will make your pictures better?
ultimately it's the photographers vision that will make a photo good, not the camera.
p.7 #18 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Well, it ticks off a few boxes relative to my A7RII:
- More dynamic range (which I thought the A7RII was lacking slightly in real situations)
- Better IBIS - For longer focal lengths the A7RII IBIS became less useful
- Dual Card Slots
- 14 bit RAW files with full electronic shutter - great for tele work
- 10 FPS full electronic shutter mode - I assume this means a faster electronic readout time and reduced rolling shutter issues (though not in the A9 league)
- Better EVF - always appreciated
- Hopefully improved weather sealing (A7R was not good, A7RII was better . . .)
Hopefully more goodness over the A7RII once more details are reported.
p.7 #19 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
I for one am glad they saved the MAP increase for the A9R, even at 36MP it's hard to get lenses that don't show unacceptable flaws. Looks like my OG 7R is getting a sibling. Also interested to see that the new EVF has standard and high quality modes. Maybe that's why I wasn't all that impressed by the A9 I played around with, it may have been in standard mode. I'm tickled by this release, very interested in the new soon as well, I've been lacking a good one-lens walk-around solution.
p.7 #20 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
I know I'll be called ungrateful but this is rather disappointing as a landscape shooter. I can see the draw for people shooting more moving subjects but there seems like a lot of overlap there with the A9. Do wedding shooters want 42mp?
Remember these announcements are usually pie in the sky and then as reviews really solidify we typically find that a lot of the promises are under delivered. For instance I'm guessing "A9 AF" means they used some similar algorithms but in practice with the hardware and sensors involved the AF will be well behind the A9's.
I'm guessing same sensor means same long exposure noise issues? And if so more star eater algorithm. If I'm wrong on this that would be one big advancement I could get behind, but with Sony's poor direction in firmware already being semi-confirmed in other annoying areas I am not optimistic.
Still drops to 12 bit in lots of instances. One less instance, which is nice, but still way too many. No lossless compressed.
Whereas play memories could be a real game-changer if they opened it up a la a user-developed app store, instead we are going backwards and eliminating it entirely. Very very disappointing as a landscape shooter.
No mention of touchless shutter, which is actually really useful for landscape shooters. I'm guessing with play memories being dropped it's gone completely now. Just another half finished idea from Sony that could have been great if they'd put the last 5% of work in, instead of getting it 95% done and then abandoning it.
In this respect, a half finished version of pixel shift that is 5 times the PITA as the versions that have been on the market for years is unsurprising. As someone above mentioned if you have to take separate raw files into software anyway it's not that different from shooting a longer FL and stitching, which probably handles moving leaves and water better than pixel shift anyway.
Any word on the processor? A7r2 is incredibly laggy compared to DSLRs. Would be a big win if this thing lets you move around the menus faster and doesn't those couple second hang-ups regularly.
Bottom line is software is really the direction where I wanted to see Sony improve, and they seem to be only going backwards even further there. No real improvements on the software front, and elimination of playmemories which was useful as a landscape photog (though it, like everything else software driven by Sony, needed improvements).
Great hardware, mind-numbingly dumb software. Par for the course with Sony. I was really hoping the next camera would fix a lot of these issues instead of exacerbating them and I could put those Canon/Nikon mirrorless announcements we all know are coming on ignore because I really really love Sony's lens lineup. But looks like I'll still end up where I was before, if they can deliver on hardware/lenses without the horrible software "quirks" that Sony makes us endure, I'll have to pay attention.
