Feel free to play with it. I noticed one small area with a brush like streak but barely visible and clearly not as bad as my sensor. If my sensor was like that, i would not bother to have it sent in. But, that is not my camera...
Like Geoff, my 5D mark IV is nothing nearly as bad as my 1Dx mark II.
One suggestion for those that post images to show spots and check for streaks/smears, try to set it to F32 instead of 22, this reveals everything and shows the streaks/smears much easier than @ F22. Also, try to keep the ISO as low as possible.
Just to be clear where to look for. These are the lines/smears/streaks on my sensor:
Just curious but do these streaks show up with somewhat more normal processing? That seems excessive to me but I don't do landscapes so maybe that is normal for that type of work.
ggreene wrote:
Just curious but do these streaks show up with somewhat more normal processing? That seems excessive to me but I don't do landscapes so maybe that is normal for that type of work.
Once you know where to look the lines will appear faint on an unedited image if viewed without adjustment. The visibility of the lines will depend on the aperture being used, and the contrast of the scene. From my own experience, I have found a light grey sky will make the lines less visible, but a blue or dark sky can bring them out.
The problem with ‘normal’ processing is that what is normal can change depending on what you want to do with your shot. For example, as I responded to someone else in this thread, if you convert an image to a contrasty/dramatic black and white photo the effect can be similar to raising the Dehaze slider to 100.
Another example would be using the Detailed preset in Macphun’s Luminar which really boosts the clarity and contrast.
Of course one doesn’t edit like that all the time, but when an edit like that is desired it’s sure annoying to see.
I took a look at your friend's sensor. I can make out some EXTREMELY faint lines with EXTREME manipulation towards the middle-top of the frame... Honestly, your friend's sensor is something I'd be more than happy with and he'd never notice this.
What i am wondering now if Canon Germany is going to acknowledge the problem, or if they call this 'within spec'. After comparing it to the other sensor i would rather have my sensor replaced or again a new body. Fingers crossed!
Chimping wrote:
We are just the unlucky ones, unfortunately.
^ ^ ^ This is what keeps circling in my mind.
Based on the first oil splatter reports that emerged about ten months ago, I thought:
1 the issue would only exist on an small number of units - busted
2 1DxII bodies were way more often affected than 1Dx bodies - busted
3 if I should be unlucky enough to receive one, Canon would surely make it right by either cleaning under warranty or replacing the sensor under warranty - busted (or so it would appear)
4 the oil would slowly but surely dry to the point that a well used body would eventually not exhibit any oil splatter on the sensor - ?
Then when the scratching issue emerged, I understood that:
5 the scratching issue would only exist on 1DxII bodies - seems correct
6 the issue involved a new sensor design much more sensitive and vulnerable to some wet cleaning methods
7 sensors could be damaged to the point where they should be replaced - true
8 Canon would surely replace the sensor under warranty in such cases - questionable
Basically I assumed this being a pro body that costs a fortune, is aimed at photographers that rely on equipment to feed their families, Canon would of course set them straight, acknowledge the issue and fix it under warranty.
So is it even a good idea to purchase any of these two bodies? I mean at all? I would use the body mostly with lenses wide open, but also a fair part of shots down to f/8 or even f/16. Weather resistance, handling and durability were among my key strong points but if the body needs to be cleaned every month to even use it properly I will get an umbrella and a 5D4 and call it a day, year. life. I'm not a heroic DIY wet sensor cleaning person. My 5DsR only sees the occasional Butterfly to gently begs the dust to leave. I do that once every 5000 clicks or so.
If I interpret the contributions made in this post, more and more samples appear to be affected than we thought and the reason many owners aren't aware of the issue is that they always shoot at or near wide open. And this goes for both issues.
Feel free to play with it. I noticed one small area with a brush like streak but barely visible and clearly not as bad as my sensor. If my sensor was like that, i would not bother to have it sent in. But, that is not my camera...
Like Geoff, my 5D mark IV is nothing nearly as bad as my 1Dx mark II.
One suggestion for those that post images to show spots and check for streaks/smears, try to set it to F32 instead of 22, this reveals everything and shows the streaks/smears much easier than @ F22. Also, try to keep the ISO as low as possible.
Just to be clear where to look for. These are the lines/smears/streaks on my sensor:
Settings: ISO 200 @ F32 - Contrast +100 / Hilights -100 / Shadows -69 / Whites +38 / Blacks -100...Show more →I would like to see it again after another wet cleaning and see if those streaks stay put or move...if they move then not scratches......
rabbitmountain wrote:
^ ^ ^ This is what keeps circling in my mind.
Based on the first oil splatter reports that emerged about ten months ago, I thought:
1 the issue would only exist on an small number of units - busted
2 1DxII bodies were way more often affected than 1Dx bodies - busted
3 if I should be unlucky enough to receive one, Canon would surely make it right by either cleaning under warranty or replacing the sensor under warranty - busted (or so it would appear)
4 the oil would slowly but surely dry to the point that a well used body would eventually not exhibit any oil splatter on the sensor - ?
Then when the scratching issue emerged, I understood that:
5 the scratching issue would only exist on 1DxII bodies - seems correct
6 the issue involved a new sensor design much more sensitive and vulnerable to some wet cleaning methods
7 sensors could be damaged to the point where they should be replaced - true
8 Canon would surely replace the sensor under warranty in such cases - questionable
Basically I assumed this being a pro body that costs a fortune, is aimed at photographers that rely on equipment to feed their families, Canon would of course set them straight, acknowledge the issue and fix it under warranty.
So is it even a good idea to purchase any of these two bodies? I mean at all? I would use the body mostly with lenses wide open, but also a fair part of shots down to f/8 or even f/16. Weather resistance, handling and durability were among my key strong points but if the body needs to be cleaned every month to even use it properly I will get an umbrella and a 5D4 and call it a day, year. life. I'm not a heroic DIY wet sensor cleaning person. My 5DsR only sees the occasional Butterfly to gently begs the dust to leave. I do that once every 5000 clicks or so.
If I interpret the contributions made in this post, more and more samples appear to be affected than we thought and the reason many owners aren't aware of the issue is that they always shoot at or near wide open. And this goes for both issues.
Keeps me thinking of how i cleaned my A7r sensor, with an ordinairy lens pen! That sensor had a hardened glass layer in front to prevent damage to the sensor itself.
Also, when i mentioned why a 'Flagship' model had so many problems the rep. said, "Flagship? i wouldn't call the 1Dx mark II a flasghip model, in my eyes that is the 5D mark IV" Uhm...
Also understood that some Pro's in NL are filing claims for the loss of income due to the 1Dx mark II's problems.
Herb wrote:
I would like to see it again after another wet cleaning and see if those streaks stay put or move...if they move then not scratches......
I'm not touching the sensor myself Herb, it will void my warranty and i don't want that in case something doesn't come off or worse, when i damage something.
My body is at CPS in Germany now where they will investigate the problem. Meanwhile i requested a loaner and will perform the same tests on it.
Looking again to the picture I made after my sensor was cleaned by CPS in the Netherlands a few weeks ago, there are no lines visible. [only some dust]
This sensor is replaced last year, because it was damaged by a cleaning company.
So I was thinking: could Canon use other types [ when a sensor must be replaced] at the moment and are de very sensitive sensors only in the original body's?
Are there any replaced sensors with lines, out there?
Herb wrote:
I would like to see it again after another wet cleaning and see if those streaks stay put or move...if they move then not scratches......
Herb,
I don’t know how to say this any other way, man... These are not scratches on the sensor surface, and they are not from a botched cleaning. They won’t wipe away; they won’t fade with cleaning. They are underneath the top layer of glass on the sensor. The only fix is a sensor replacement.
The oil is another issue altogether, and even a sensor replacement won’t solve that problem. Canon messed up with either their design or over oiling. In a just world there would be a recall.
Gust wrote:
Looking again to the picture I made after my sensor was cleaned by CPS in the Netherlands a few weeks ago, there are no lines visible. [only some dust]
This sensor is replaced last year, because it was damaged by a cleaning company.
So I was thinking: could Canon use other types [ when a sensor must be replaced] at the moment and are de very sensitive sensors only in the original body's?
Are there any replaced sensors with lines, out there?
When my original 1DX Mark II sensor was replaced, the replacement had no lines. There was still the oil problem, however, which is why I took it in to have the sensor cleaned. That’s when the sensor got scratched.
That brings me back to my theory, which I posted before: that it might be early production units that have this problem. It could also be that replacement sensors are fabricated somewhere else.
Either way, there are 1DX Mark II cameras out there with no sensor line issue. I have now personally seen 8 different cameras’ files with it now, however. That’s still a very small sample size, but it’s enough to know that this problem is out there and most likely affecting more sensors.
therealthings wrote:
Keeps me thinking of how i cleaned my A7r sensor, with an ordinairy lens pen! That sensor had a hardened glass layer in front to prevent damage to the sensor itself.
Also, when i mentioned why a 'Flagship' model had so many problems the rep. said, "Flagship? i wouldn't call the 1Dx mark II a flasghip model, in my eyes that is the 5D mark IV" Uhm...
Also understood that some Pro's in NL are filing claims for the loss of income due to the 1Dx mark II's problems.
That’s laughable that the Canon rep wouldn’t say the 1DX Mark II is their flagship. In Canada the only body CPS members get a discount on is the 1DX Mark II because it’s the only camera officially designated as “professional”. Everything else is considered a pro-sumer or enthusiast camera, including the 5D Mark IV.
Good for the Pros out there filing claims. I’m not sure how successful they will be, as Canon gives loaner equipment, but it is still worth it to show Canon the frustrations and problems stemming from this very expensive tool.
Another data point - an f22 and f32 RAW, respectively. I recently cleaned the sensor so am surprised to see so much accumulation on the top left already. If I crank dehaze and contrast to 100% I do see a few lines, but they aren't completely horizontal.
Greg Schneider wrote:
Another data point - an f22 and f32 RAW, respectively. I recently cleaned the sensor so am surprised to see so much accumulation on the top left already. If I crank dehaze and contrast to 100% I do see a few lines, but they aren't completely horizontal.
rabbitmountain wrote:
If I interpret the contributions made in this post, more and more samples appear to be affected than we thought and the reason many owners aren't aware of the issue is that they always shoot at or near wide open. And this goes for both issues.
I have a feeling that this is the majority usage for 1DX/1DX2 bodies. I'm a sports shooter that rarely goes over 5.6 and I'm only at 5.6 because I don't want to pay $10000 for a 200-400/4. Canon may simply not see this issue showing up enough in service to view it as a serious defect. Especially with the extreme processing needed to get it to show up.
ggreene wrote:
I have a feeling that this is the majority usage for 1DX/1DX2 bodies. I'm a sports shooter that rarely goes over 5.6 and I'm only at 5.6 because I don't want to pay $10000 for a 200-400/4. Canon may simply not see this issue showing up enough in service to view it as a serious defect. Especially with the extreme processing needed to get it to show up.
Well I agree based on what I've seen that the scratches issue may not affect real shooting for most 1Dx2 owners. But the oil spray issue is what discourages me most as we don't need extreme processing to make it apparent. Combined with the possible warranty void for home wet cleaning the 1Dx2 sensor this will render affected units troublesome to say the least.
The technician at the repair center told me that it isn't oil but dust/particles. He told me that if it were oil it would cause smears on the sensor with cleaning (which made me think those were the smears on my sensor. But Chimping showed me that the lines on my sensor were there before the cleaning). Also the Canon rep. Told me that they clean the sensors with brake cleaning fluid! I thought that stuff is way too agressive for sensor cleaning.
Chimping wrote:
That’s laughable that the Canon rep wouldn’t say the 1DX Mark II is their flagship.
Definitely flagship in regards to durability but if I was more of a wedding/portrait photographer I would be looking at the 5D4 as the top end and if I was doing landscapes/architecture I would be looking at a 5DsR (maybe a 5D4). With Canon having no D850/A99ii type body there is no flagship for everything. You just have to pick your poison.
Is it just me or are the Canon reps and/or service techs in Europe a little weird? First, we got told that the 1DX2 needs special gear to be cleaned (obviously false given how many clean themselves) and now we have someone saying they use brake cleaning fluid on the sensor? I can see brake cleaning fluid having some similar properties but it's hard to believe that statement as is.
ggreene wrote:
Definitely flagship in regards to durability but if I was more of a wedding/portrait photographer I would be looking at the 5D4 as the top end and if I was doing landscapes/architecture I would be looking at a 5DsR (maybe a 5D4). With Canon having no D850/A99ii type body there is no flagship for everything. You just have to pick your poison.
Is it just me or are the Canon reps and/or service techs in Europe a little weird? First, we got told that the 1DX2 needs special gear to be cleaned (obviously false given how many clean themselves) and now we have someone saying they use brake cleaning fluid on the sensor? I can see brake cleaning fluid having some similar properties but it's hard to believe that statement as is. ...Show more →
I'll make it even more confusing, Gust told me that there is no cleaning machine. I confronted my rep. With Gust's experience, but the rep. Swore he had seen the cleaning machine with his own eyes and that he has seen it in action cleaning sensors...
