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Archive 2017 · 1DX II Sensor issues

  
 
Chimping
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p.5 #1 · 1DX II Sensor issues


rscheffler wrote:
This is kind of true for me. If shooting sports with long lenses, it is 99.9% of the time wide open either because of dark venues or for subject/background separation. Similar is true shooting weddings. Studio portraits however are often at f/8 so I can get nose and eyes in focus. Here dust does become more of a problem, but usually only larger specks, easily resolved with a quick cleaning. I've also used these cameras for architecture and dust has been a major problem if I don't clean the sensors before the shoot. In this situation, I've had similar serious
...Show more


I had heard about that issue with the M9 awhile back. I'm glad Leica acknowledge the problem and was offering replacement sensors. Still, however, I always am a bit annoyed and disappointed after paying all this money for a tool to have a repair done for a manufacturing defect. I guess that's part of modern living, however; everything is so complex and there's so many parts that it's amazing there aren't more issues, really.

Despite you saying you've had quite a bit of dust on your 1DX Mark II sensor, you've obviously had to clean it quite a few times with close to 500,000 shutter actuations, and by the sounds of it you've not experienced any problems doing so...which is comforting.




Oct 03, 2017 at 10:41 PM
rscheffler
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p.5 #2 · 1DX II Sensor issues


I haven't cleaned it that often with the stamper tool or sensor-pen and have not yet done a wet cleaning myself. Maybe only around 3-5 times with the stamper or sensor-pen and then only because of shoots that would be primarily stopped down a lot. I would probably clean the sensor of any camera I was using for that kind of a shoot ahead of time just to avoid the inevitable headaches later in post. I give it a once-over with a blower bulb on a more regular basis to get rid of any larger loose specks.

Just before the warranty expired the mirror jammed and was out of whack, resulting in replacement of the mirror box. I'm pretty sure Canon did a sensor wet-clean at that time because it came back nearly perfect.

I should look for the lines you described. I wonder if it's something like Newton's rings due to glass on glass transition/lamination or from a small air gap? You'd think Canon would know how to avoid such problems...



Oct 03, 2017 at 10:53 PM
Chimping
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p.5 #3 · 1DX II Sensor issues


rscheffler wrote:
I should look for the lines you described. I wonder if it's something like Newton's rings due to glass on glass transition/lamination or from a small air gap? You'd think Canon would know how to avoid such problems...


Maybe! Either way, the lines shouldn't be there. It would be interesting to see some RAW files from recent production runs of the camera to see if the lines are still there on some units.



Oct 03, 2017 at 11:00 PM
therealthings
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p.5 #4 · 1DX II Sensor issues


Today i am going to send my camera in for repair together with the test shots printed out. I will ask for a loaner 1dxII and perform the same test on it. I hope canon is able to fix the issue with my sensor.

At the moment i am even thinking of returning my camera due to a production flaw and settle for a 2nd 5D mark IV and some change.



Oct 04, 2017 at 01:23 AM
rabbitmountain
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p.5 #5 · 1DX II Sensor issues


For what it's worth, I checked some files I shot with a 1Dx2 loaner, in october 2016. Also my shots are mostly at f/2.8. This one at f/8 is among the very few.

Original:
-- -https://www.dropbox.com/s/3m3vqafkuau1ct9/FP9I8201-Unedited.jpg?dl=0

Processed using Dehaze 100% and contrast/clarity:
-- -https://www.dropbox.com/s/fv6jbsoso949srm/FP9I8201-Contrast-Dehaze.jpg?dl=0

I do see some lines, I see them most in the upper right corner.

PS not sure what happens to the links. I got question marks first round. Now I put some hyphens in front.



Oct 04, 2017 at 02:18 AM
therealthings
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p.5 #6 · 1DX II Sensor issues


rabbitmountain wrote:
For what it's worth, I checked some files I shot with a 1Dx2 loaner, in october 2016. Also my shots are mostly at f/2.8. This one at f/8 is among the very few.

Original:
-- -https://www.dropbox.com/s/3m3vqafkuau1ct9/FP9I8201-Unedited.jpg?dl=0

Processed using Dehaze 100% and contrast/clarity:
-- -https://www.dropbox.com/s/fv6jbsoso949srm/FP9I8201-Contrast-Dehaze.jpg?dl=0

I do see some lines, I see them most in the upper right corner.

PS not sure what happens to the links. I got question marks first round. Now I put some hyphens in front.


I think F8 is not enough to bring them out.
Dropbox images do not translate well on Fred's forum, i create links for them. Direct posting the url for an image does not work.




Oct 04, 2017 at 02:24 AM
rabbitmountain
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p.5 #7 · 1DX II Sensor issues


Okay I didn't know that about the dropbox links. Did you still see the files?

After looking better at the exif I see it was a 100-400ii w/ 1.4xiii, so it's actually a wide open shot at f/8. Sorry for that. Still I do see horizontal lines in this image that could match what I noticed in the other images.

1Dx2, 100-400ii + 1.4xiii, ISO100 f/8

Here is a 100% crop:
http://www.yulaniss.nl/FM/171004-1Dx2-sensor-issue/100pctCrop.jpg

And here is the original:
http://www.yulaniss.nl/FM/171004-1Dx2-sensor-issue/FP9I8201-Original.jpg



Oct 04, 2017 at 02:51 AM
therealthings
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p.5 #8 · 1DX II Sensor issues


Still difficult to tell. I do see faint lines that might have revealed better at narrower apertures.

Here is another thread about it:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=30346.0

After reading it it seems like Chimping is invested in that thread as well.



Oct 04, 2017 at 03:34 AM
Mike Veltri
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p.5 #9 · 1DX II Sensor issues


Some of the photos I have looked at here, show some filthy sensors. It would take multiple swabings to clean them entirely imo. Some of the small scratches might also be from a swabbing, and some look like streaking.

Some dust can get welded onto the sensor, and that is why its a good idea to clean them periodically.

Did I ever tell you how much I hate cleaning sensors? lol

Using a rocket blower only to get sh*t on the upper screen or on the viewfinder itself.
Cleaning that can be a headache for sure, but it can be done if your careful.

Normally I shoot most of my lenses wide open or close to it, and dust has no bearing if its not showing up in the raw file.

Dust & dirty sensors is nothing new, and nothing that has not been talked about before. A whole industry has been built on manufacturing and selling Swabs, Brushes, Pens, Fluids and more for years to keep the sensor clean for all brands of cameras.

Anyway, here are two photos of my sensor at F/22 ISO 100 with the 35mm II
I have a few spots that need attention, but only if I was going to shoot at F/22 again in the future.
I personally don't see the lines you talk about, and if they do exist by manipulating the image with Hdr or dehaze or a combination of both it is still a non-issue if you fine them by doing this. If it ain't broken, don't fix it....


Some people like to manipulate their images in post, and some HDR have that Frankenstein look to them as I like to call it, which will show every little dust spec if you push it too far. Personally I don't like the dehaze filter in PS and find I can do the same by adjusting other settings that don't seem to alter the image. Same goes for pushing the clarity slider which alters the image imo.

Only reason for coming back and posting is due to you thinking all 1D users ran away. Too bad you have had all the problems with your gear, but good to know Canon replaced it for you. Good of you trying to get the word out as well.






Dehaze 100% Contrast 100%









Oct 04, 2017 at 08:20 AM
therealthings
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p.5 #10 · 1DX II Sensor issues


These images are resized, it's hard to tell if those lines are in there.
They show at 100% magnification.

And about the dust, there's normal dust and excessive dust. The 1dxII is proof of that. My canon rep even confirmed this issue.

Read another story about this photographer:
https://facebook.com/david.pattyn.50/posts/1963109727262418



Oct 04, 2017 at 08:39 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.5 #11 · 1DX II Sensor issues


One of the tools I use to check my sensor after cleaning is to use the Photoshop EQUALIZE filter. It does wonders for enhancing sensor noise (for checking on progress of noise removal) as well as artifacts caused by dirt on the sensor.


Oct 04, 2017 at 09:39 AM
Chimping
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p.5 #12 · 1DX II Sensor issues


therealthings wrote:
Still difficult to tell. I do see faint lines that might have revealed better at narrower apertures.

Here is another thread about it:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=30346.0

After reading it it seems like Chimping is invested in that thread as well.





That actually is my thread. I am R1-7D on CanonRumors. Oh, and I’m also Batman... But shhh...don’t tell anyone.

Edited on Oct 04, 2017 at 12:29 PM · View previous versions



Oct 04, 2017 at 11:07 AM
Chimping
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p.5 #13 · 1DX II Sensor issues


Mike Veltri wrote:
Some of the photos I have looked at here, show some filthy sensors. It would take multiple swabings to clean them entirely imo. Some of the small scratches might also be from a swabbing, and some look like streaking.

Some dust can get welded onto the sensor, and that is why its a good idea to clean them periodically.

Did I ever tell you how much I hate cleaning sensors? lol

Using a rocket blower only to get sh*t on the upper screen or on the viewfinder itself.
Cleaning that can be a headache for sure, but it can be done if your
...Show more


Can you honestly say from looking at the photos people have posted with the amount of crud on their sensors that it's normal? I have seen some bad 5D sensors in my time, but no where near as bad as what happens to these 1DX2 sensors. This is Nikon D600-level bad.

You have to remember as well, that even though there's a whole industry of cleaning products for sensors, the products themselves carry risks of causing damage. Extremely dirty sensors, like what we are seeing in this thread, will carry a higher risk of cleaning because there's more particles on them, and is yet another reason why this is a problem that needs addressing. This is not normal for any other model of camera produced by Canon.


As far as the argument goes about manipulating the image via Dehaze, HDR, etc...well, it is actually still an issue. If you convert an image to a contrasty black and white photo, for example, it will essentially do exactly same thing, and both sensor lines and dust will appear more readily. Furthermore, I often push a portion/area of a photo quite heavily using Dehaze, or by adjusting the contrast, and I'd really rather not have to deal with a manufacturing defect under any circumstance.

The argument not to over manipulating photos doesn't hold water with me. There's many photographic styles today, with different editing techniques to meet different peoples' tastes. Art is, after all, subjective. I would hope that the one thing we can all agree on is that a flagship camera that commands a $6000 price tag should be free from defects, such as sensor lines and excess oil being splattered around more readily than on other models.


EDIT:

Only reason for coming back and posting is due to you thinking all 1D users ran away. Too bad you have had all the problems with your gear, but good to know Canon replaced it for you. Good of you trying to get the word out as well.


Can you post a full sized shot, or link to one of your RAW files? It's impossible to see if there are any defects from such a compressed image.



Oct 04, 2017 at 11:37 AM
ggreene
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p.5 #14 · 1DX II Sensor issues


therealthings wrote:
Read another story about this photographer:
https://facebook.com/david.pattyn.50/posts/1963109727262418


That story is strange sounding at least given my experience with Canon CPS. I'm just a Gold member and if Canon was going to have my body for over a couple weeks they would offer a loaner. They also have always sent me a sheet describing what work was done on the gear.

Maybe Canon CPS outside of the US is not what it should be?



Oct 04, 2017 at 11:56 AM
Chimping
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p.5 #15 · 1DX II Sensor issues


rabbitmountain wrote:
Okay I didn't know that about the dropbox links. Did you still see the files?

After looking better at the exif I see it was a 100-400ii w/ 1.4xiii, so it's actually a wide open shot at f/8. Sorry for that. Still I do see horizontal lines in this image that could match what I noticed in the other images.

1Dx2, 100-400ii + 1.4xiii, ISO100 f/8

Here is a 100% crop:
http://www.yulaniss.nl/FM/171004-1Dx2-sensor-issue/100pctCrop.jpg

And here is the original:
http://www.yulaniss.nl/FM/171004-1Dx2-sensor-issue/FP9I8201-Original.jpg




I can't tell from the size of the images. Can you please upload RAW shots to a Dropbox folder and link to it?



Oct 04, 2017 at 11:57 AM
Chimping
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p.5 #16 · 1DX II Sensor issues


ggreene wrote:
That story is strange sounding at least given my experience with Canon CPS. I'm just a Gold member and if Canon was going to have my body for over a couple weeks they would offer a loaner. They also have always sent me a sheet describing what work was done on the gear.

Maybe Canon CPS outside of the US is not what it should be?



Same -- Canon has always given me a loaner camera when mine were in for repairs/cleanings. I also have to say, in recent years, Canon CPS here in Canada have treated me incredibly well and I cannot say anything bad about their service.

The Facebook user said that he dropped his camera of at the retail store where he purchased it. I was once told by Vistek here in town that if a retailer sends your camera in for you it does not go through CPS member channels for fast service. Perhaps this Facebook user made that error and should have sent the camera in himself?

I'm just speculating... That part of the story does seem strange, and is missing some details.


As far as the Facebook User's image goes, he definitely has the dust/oil issue, and his photo speaks for itself. Yikes.



Oct 04, 2017 at 12:03 PM
therealthings
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p.5 #17 · 1DX II Sensor issues


I just received a raw image from another 1Dx mark II owner, moderate dust but he cleans his sensor himself regularly. I tried the same tricks on it but see only one small area with that brush streaks. Nothing nearly as bad as with my sensor. Will post the raw later on.

About getting loaner equipment, in The Netherlands if you are gold or platinum member you are eligible to request a loaner. I always had a loaner body when my camera was in for repair.



Oct 04, 2017 at 12:28 PM
Mike Veltri
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p.5 #18 · 1DX II Sensor issues


NO, I think they are filthy as I said. The reason for them being that dirty is most likely from the lubricant used on the shutter. As a wildlife photographer, conditions in which we shoot can go from one extreme to the other. With pollen and dust and from extreme heat to extreme cold, I wonder if the sensors of a guy that shoots in a studio would look the same. As you say this is not normal for any other Canon camera produced, I do remember cleaning my 30D 40D 1DIII 1DIV 1DX and now the Mark II. Also I don't believe that any other Canon camera shoots at the frame rate of a 1D series camera. So it's possible that they use a different lubricant to keep the shutter firing at 14fps.

Since acquiring a gel sensor pen, and with regular maintenance of the sensor, I found keeping the 1Dx and Mark II clean was pretty easy. The lubricant problem like the photos posted need attention first then regular use of the gel pen have kept my happy. Like taking your car to the dealer for a lube and oil change a camera needs the same loving care. And I guess over the last ten years of shooting digital I have come to except the fact that I need to clean my sensor from time to time.

If the issue is marks on the sensor, when it was new out of the box and was repeated on several cameras, then I would say that was an issue. Dust is... well dust and has always been an issue. Some cameras worse than others... D600 I doubt it but maybe as I don't shoot Nikon but have heard hard luck stories from people I know.

So to put this dead horse to sleep... at least for me. I will wait for a recall and until then keep shooting 14fps to the sweet sound of my Mark II

Have a good one!




Oct 04, 2017 at 12:50 PM
arbitrage
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p.5 #19 · 1DX II Sensor issues


kosin wrote:
I know that I hypothesized different causes of this “upper left trend” but at the moment, I’m thinking that maybe this is how the Automatic Cleaning is working. It moves the dust to the bottom of the sensor, and maybe that corner has more “static charge” and collects more dust. Don’t forget that left corner of the image is actually the lower right corner of the sensor. It is possible that Canon designed the Automatic Cleaning with the center of the sensor being a priority not worrying about the corners. I rarely get a dust on the center of the
...Show more

Here is my 5D4. Not sure if I've ever cleaned it. Canon re-built it last March after it died from its snowy encounter. It is looking a lot better than 1DX2.








Oct 04, 2017 at 02:09 PM
arbitrage
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p.5 #20 · 1DX II Sensor issues


And here is my D500.....made me notice something ugly must be on my front element.
2nd shot is after cleaning the front element and doing a couple blows with the Zeon Blower....still need to work on it.





Before







After cleaning the front of lens and a couple air blows




Oct 04, 2017 at 02:32 PM
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