kosin wrote:
This is why I would love to know the reasoning for the sensor replacement suggested by the Canon tech. I wonder what he saw on it that it didn’t pass the QC. At this point we can only speculate.
At least we know the current cost for the sensor replacement
I spoke with the CPS rep at the Canon repair facility (Newport News, Va.) this morning. She said after several attempts to clean the sensor it still failed their image test due to debris, they say dust and solids not oil. She didn't know but suggested it was possible the debris was under the low pass filter, but that sounds unlikely to me given how the camera has been used. Anyway, the camera has been reentered into the system for another tech to perform the clean and check maintenance. I'll find out the results of that later this afternoon. BTW, the cost of replacing the sensor did not include my CPS Platinum discount which would have brought the cost down to around $1450, whoopee! Unless the camera somehow no longer takes a photo, I doubt that's going to happen.
Update on the 1Dx2 I have at Canon. I received a call from the CPS rep at the repair facility. When the second tech tried to clean the sensor it was scratched in the process. Thus the rep said Canon would replace the sensor at no cost to me. It worked out in this case for me, but I'm still concerned that there may be an underlying problem with debris or buildup on the sensor. I will probably send the body to Canon at much more regular intervals to make sure there is no further sensor buildup or issues.
NCAndy wrote:
Update on the 1Dx2 I have at Canon. I received a call from the CPS rep at the repair facility. When the second tech tried to clean the sensor it was scratched in the process. Thus the rep said Canon would replace the sensor at no cost to me. It worked out in this case for me, but I'm still concerned that there may be an underlying problem with debris or buildup on the sensor. I will probably send the body to Canon at much more regular intervals to make sure there is no further sensor buildup or issues.
Well at least that works out for you. If he scratched it it wasn't from the oil. Must have been something abrasive if moving it scratched the cover glass.
Always my biggest worry with swabbing myself is if I miss a piece of abrasive dust I could drag it and scratch the sensor cover myself. I try to take precaution and blow it off good and look under good light and magnification before swabbing.
Now when you do get it back make sure to take and f/22 test shot and then see how long it takes to get dirty again. My friend got his cleaned by Canon CPS in Canada and when it was returned it was spotless even in his previously messy upper left. Within a week the majority of spots were back in the upper left.
Or maybe the 1st tech scratched it and they tried to take the money from you for the sensor replacement. Since you didn’t budge, they made up the story about the 2nd tech. Just saying..
I wonder if it is really possible to have debris trapped under the low pass filter. If so, maybe it was sold like that. .
NCAndy wrote:
Update on the 1Dx2 I have at Canon. I received a call from the CPS rep at the repair facility. When the second tech tried to clean the sensor it was scratched in the process. Thus the rep said Canon would replace the sensor at no cost to me. It worked out in this case for me, but I'm still concerned that there may be an underlying problem with debris or buildup on the sensor. I will probably send the body to Canon at much more regular intervals to make sure there is no further sensor buildup or issues.
I would call CPS back and ask them to check for internal wear while they have the camera apart for the sensor replacement. You don't want to have a brand new sensor installed only for the same part to continue to wear and cause issue all over again.
kosin wrote:
Or maybe the 1st tech scratched it and they tried to take the money from you for the sensor replacement. Since you didn’t budge, they made up the story about the 2nd tech. Just saying..
I wonder if it is really possible to have debris trapped under the low pass filter. If so, maybe it was sold like that. .
I thought the low pass filter on these modern sensors were fused together? If so, it's possible some debris was still trapped before the sensor and accompanying layers were fused, just like if you look closely at any modern smart phone (there's always a few specs under the top glass). It's unlikely, however, enough particles were trapped beforehand to ever be a serious issue.
I might be mistaken on whether the sensor is a sealed unit, though. I just thought that's why Canon insists on replacing the whole sensor assembly unit instead of just the top portion of glass like they used to.
arbitrage wrote:
Now when you do get it back make sure to take and f/22 test shot and then see how long it takes to get dirty again. My friend got his cleaned by Canon CPS in Canada and when it was returned it was spotless even in his previously messy upper left. Within a week the majority of spots were back in the upper left.
Does your friend know how many shutter actuations are on his camera?
For what it is worth, I just sent my 1DX2 in to Canon Canada for a sensor cleaning and the loaner they sent me didn't develop spots nearly as quickly as mine. It had well over 140,000 actuations on it, though, which is quite a bit more than my own since I have barely been using my camera. I discussed this with CPS over the phone and the suggestion was it is possible that the lubricant was dissipating over time and with use. To me, this made a lot of sense. That's why I'm now curious if anyone with high shutter counts have noticed the appearance of the spots dissipate.
On another note, Canon Canada did an awesome job, again, of cleaning my sensor. Can't fault them for their cleaning service in this neck of the woods.
I will certainly document the cleanliness of the sensor from the time I get it back. There is a six month warranty on the new sensor. I'll probably try to take a weekly photo so that I have a series to show Canon if I have more issues with buildup. I don't use the camera quite as much this time of year as we head outside with spring sports. The time changes in less than two weeks so most of the games or meets will be in daylight conditions and I often use the 7D2 for a little more reach and to take some of the use off the 1Dx2.
As for the scratch on the sensor, I'll take Canon's word on that. I have no reason to doubt them or evidence to suggest otherwise. I did mention to the various CPS reps I own a lot of Canon gear but I doubt that made any difference in the final outcome.
Chimping wrote:
Does your friend know how many shutter actuations are on his camera?
For what it is worth, I just sent my 1DX2 in to Canon Canada for a sensor cleaning and the loaner they sent me didn't develop spots nearly as quickly as mine. It had well over 140,000 actuations on it, though, which is quite a bit more than my own since I have barely been using my camera. I discussed this with CPS over the phone and the suggestion was it is possible that the lubricant was dissipating over time and with use. To me, this made a lot of sense. That's why I'm now curious if anyone with high shutter counts have noticed the appearance of the spots dissipate.
On another note, Canon Canada did an awesome job, again, of cleaning my sensor. Can't fault them for their cleaning service in this neck of the woods. ...Show more →
I know he was around 60,000 back in November when he sent his in.
My 1DX got better as it aged...never had the upper left concentration but was pretty bad in the early days. I started a huge thread about it back in the day with a poll and all.
I last cleaned the sensor back in the Fall (300K shot total) and after a weekend of shooting about 10K shots didn't see a huge accumulation but there were definitely some spots here and there with a few more in the upper left. Nothing I would bother cleaning though.
As far as a history of whether it gets better or not with usage I couldn't tell you as I just don't check it much. Most of my own analysis of this has been during this thread.
I am sorry to read of your experience Andy. And i truly hope they will fix this right for you.
But to all naysayers, what did i tell you guys?
Just another story where the same thing happens. User (shoots mostly wide open and) doesn't notice debris building up. Debris is getting stuck on the sensor to a degree that it is not longer removable with cleaning. Tech tries to clean the sensor, sensor is delicate.. Oops, scratched sensor. Need sensor replacement. It's the same story Gust, me, Chimping and now NCAndy has.
therealthings wrote:
I am sorry to read of your experience Andy. And i truly hope they will fix this right for you.
But to all naysayers, what did i tell you guys?
Just another story where the same thing happens. User (shoots mostly wide open and) doesn't notice debris building up. Debris is getting stuck on the sensor to a degree that it is not longer removable with cleaning. Tech tries to clean the sensor, sensor is delicate.. Oops, scratched sensor. Need sensor replacement. It's the same story Gust, me, Chimping and now NCAndy has.
Guys I just got my 1DX2 a week ago and heard about this issue. So I did the f22 test. I can discern 3 spots similar to what others are posting in their pictures of oil spots. Mine are concentrated in the bottom right corner. I have two Qs:
I'm in the UK. Any suggestions how to proceed? Do I ask for a replacement from the seller, or do I call my local Canon CPS to sort it out?
If I went with the latter and CPS 'cleaned it' would this unit just bring up more oil spots later? So maybe I should get a replacement?
Punio wrote:
Guys I just got my 1DX2 a week ago and heard about this issue. So I did the f22 test. I can discern 3 spots similar to what others are posting in their pictures of oil spots. Mine are concentrated in the bottom right corner. I have two Qs:
I'm in the UK. Any suggestions how to proceed? Do I ask for a replacement from the seller, or do I call my local Canon CPS to sort it out?
If I went with the latter and CPS 'cleaned it' would this unit just bring up more oil spots later? So maybe I should get a replacement?
Honestly, if it’s just three spots showing it isn’t that bad and I wouldn’t worry about it. The camera is going to get A LOT more splatter with use, especially if you use high speed burst often.
You could ask CPS in the UK to clean it. I’d probably go that route, as asking for a replacement isn’t going to ultimately change anything; it too will develop oil splatter.
If you’re set on having the 1DX2, either toughen up and clean your own sensor (which I won’t do), or be prepared to send it in regularly for cleanings (which I do).
Punio wrote:
Guys I just got my 1DX2 a week ago and heard about this issue. So I did the f22 test. I can discern 3 spots similar to what others are posting in their pictures of oil spots. Mine are concentrated in the bottom right corner. I have two Qs:
I'm in the UK. Any suggestions how to proceed? Do I ask for a replacement from the seller, or do I call my local Canon CPS to sort it out?
If I went with the latter and CPS 'cleaned it' would this unit just bring up more oil spots later? So maybe I should get a replacement?
Every 1DX2 seems to accumulate splatter with use....possibly slowing down later on in its life. There is no point exchanging a camera with 3 spots. The real oil issue will show up in the upper left and as you've seen in this thread look like hundreds of very tiny dots (not look like traditional dust spots). I clean my own sensors and have no problem getting the oil off. For my use I never use the corners of the images anyways and don't shoot stopped down so the oil isn't an issue. Thankfully for Canon's sake most 1DX2 buyers are also using the camera in this type of shooting (either wildlife or sports) where wide open is almost a necessity and the corners aren't all that important. If people are buying a 1DX2 for landscapes or other stopped down work needing the entire frame then they should really look elsewhere.
I took it to lightroom and did a few adjustments to see the spots clearer. I now count 12, pretty much all over the place. Check the link above to see the jpeg.
Bear in mind I purchased this a week ago.
Chimping and Arbitrage, I do take your points on though, given the the actual amount of spots being more than I initially thought, should I still not seek a replacement?
If it takes LR adjustments to see 12 spots I would say you are fine. If you read the forum history on the topic you will find people posting that they sent their camera (not just 1DX2) in for cleaning and it came back with spots on it still. There will always be some dust/debris on the sensor.
Visible Dust has multiple solutions for cleaning sensors. It's really not that hard.
In all likelihood a replacement will have some spots on it as well.
No I would not send it back. If you aren’t okay with that sort of spots (I don’t think those are the oil ones anyways) that need crazy adjustments in LR to see them then I would consider a different camera. A friend had the huge splatter in upper left seen with the dehaze processing. Sent it to CPS and it came back spotless with dehaze. 1 week later it looked exactly like when it was sent in. You either get a different camera model or check if it really affects your actual shots with normal apertures and normal processing and enjoy this phenomenal camera.
Punio wrote:
https://imgur.com/gallery/651VYFs
I took it to lightroom and did a few adjustments to see the spots clearer. I now count 12, pretty much all over the place. Check the link above to see the jpeg.
Bear in mind I purchased this a week ago.
Chimping and Arbitrage, I do take your points on though, given the the actual amount of spots being more than I initially thought, should I still not seek a replacement?
Even brand new cameras can come with a dust on the sensor, and this is true not only to 1DXII...
Unfortunately, 1DXII shows that original problem of 1DX wasn't fixed and it might got even worse... Fortunately for most 1DXII users it isn't visible during normal shooting/processing.
Recently, I stumbled upon an article that Canon confessed to 1DX problems only in the light of the court case. Possibly, if not for that, Canon would never acknowledge any issues with 1DX and maybe this is the reason that 1DXII recall isn't issued yet... https://www.photocounter.com.au/2013/canon-warranty-dispute-leads-to-claims-of-fraud/
As for 1DX recall, did it fix anything? I know that they were servicing cameras for free but did the fix help with the issue? As long as I remember, I didn't find any improvements with 1DX before and after the service...
kosin wrote:
Even brand new cameras can come with a dust on the sensor, and this is true not only to 1DXII...
Unfortunately, 1DXII shows that original problem of 1DX wasn't fixed and it might got even worse... Fortunately for most 1DXII users it isn't visible during normal shooting/processing.
Recently, I stumbled upon an article that Canon confessed to 1DX problems only in the light of the court case. Possibly, if not for that, Canon would never acknowledge any issues with 1DX and maybe this is the reason that 1DXII recall isn't issued yet... https://www.photocounter.com.au/2013/canon-warranty-dispute-leads-to-claims-of-fraud/
As for 1DX recall, did it fix anything? I know that they were servicing cameras for free but did the fix help with the issue? As long as I remember, I didn't find any improvements with 1DX before and after the service......Show more →
I read that article sometime ago, and even tried to contact Darrell Nash. Unfortunately, he never responded.
Back in 2014 there were also a few leaked Canon internal memos (possibly from a disgruntled employee? ) that showed Canon knew about issues pertaining to focusing issues on the original 1DX during use in cold weather, and also about a manufacturing issue with the 24-70 f/2.8L II.
Canon is most definitely aware of the oil splatter issue on the 1DX Mark II, especially after the stink I and Arthur Morris made. They are just choosing to ignore it and hope it all goes away... which it most likely will, because, as you say, most users of this model won't notice the problem.
Unfortunately, that doesn't change the fact that it's a shitty problem for a camera of this calibre to have, and it precludes it from being the best jack-of-all-trades tool available.
) that showed Canon knew about issues pertaining to focusing issues on the original 1DX during use in cold weather, and also about a manufacturing issue with the 24-70 f/2.8L II.