Also notice Herb is still saying he doesn’t have an issue.
I havent had the issue like others on the site have shown. I had to go looking for it by taking a shot of the sky at f16 or greater. I havent seen the issue at f14 or less. I shot at the Cleveland Air Show this past year and didnt have the issue like everyone else commented on in the upper left corner.
In the photos below you can see 3 or 4 pieces, but virtually none in the upper left hand corner.
The photo below is at the end of the day after almost 5,000 photos, the majority that were at high speed shutter sequence.
kosin wrote:
I finally got my hands on a LR with Dehaze filter. I hate it already...
Herb, I think you missed couple of spots
Not sure what does line are...
now that is an interesting adjustment I hadnt considered! I guess I have a problem if I make that adjustment.....good thing I dont consider that an adjustment I make. I still dont see that I have a problem.....sorry
Herb wrote:
now that is an interesting adjustment I hadnt considered! I guess I have a problem if I make that adjustment.....good thing I dont consider that an adjustment I make. I still dont see that I have a problem.....sorry
Going over my old shots with the Dehaze filter, where I didn't see any dust before, is a horrible experience. Even old shots taken with the 1DX...
Let's wait what Chimping and therealthings have to say about your shots. I've been out for several weeks and have some catch up to do within this thread...
Herb wrote:
now that is an interesting adjustment I hadnt considered! I guess I have a problem if I make that adjustment.....good thing I dont consider that an adjustment I make. I still dont see that I have a problem.....sorry
This is also why my first comments on this thread were that I don't have any issues. I shoot up to f/8 usually because of TC combos but don't use 1DX2 for landscapes or other stopped down work. Therefore only occasionally I'd see one or two diffuse spots to clone out. Of course when I did all the extreme dehaze and contrast adjustments my sensor was riddled with stuff...also stopped down to f/22.
So if someone asked me if I had a problem I would still answer like you would and say No I don't have any problem using the 1DX2 for my type of bird/wildlife work. BUT that doesn't deny the fact that my sensor and your sensor are riddled with small bits of crap...be it oil or dust or whatever. My 5D4 on the other hand with the same extreme contrast and dehaze filters has only a couple spots.
I'm waiting till Pius can give his new pristine sensor a workout for one of our owl shoots and then re-test to see how much crap is back after a day of 14FPS shooting. Unfortunately Pius is stuck up in the far north for 2 weeks before he will be able to use his newly cleaned 1DX2 again.
arbitrage wrote:
This is also why my first comments on this thread were that I don't have any issues. I shoot up to f/8 usually because of TC combos but don't use 1DX2 for landscapes or other stopped down work. Therefore only occasionally I'd see one or two diffuse spots to clone out. Of course when I did all the extreme dehaze and contrast adjustments my sensor was riddled with stuff...also stopped down to f/22.
So if someone asked me if I had a problem I would still answer like you would and say No I don't have any problem using the 1DX2 for my type of bird/wildlife work. BUT that doesn't deny the fact that my sensor and your sensor are riddled with small bits of crap...be it oil or dust or whatever. My 5D4 on the other hand with the same extreme contrast and dehaze filters has only a couple spots.
I'm waiting till Pius can give his new pristine sensor a workout for one of our owl shoots and then re-test to see how much crap is back after a day of 14FPS shooting. Unfortunately Pius is stuck up in the far north for 2 weeks before he will be able to use his newly cleaned 1DX2 again.
I also shoot below or at f/8 and barely ever saw this much dust, until now. F%^&ing dehaze filter
I don't think there will be any difference to Pius' report. If there is indeed an issue with extensive dust/oil spots, it wasn't fixed since 1DX days, and most likely won't be fixed now for 1DXII.
Those lines on the sensors, that Chimping reports, is a different story unique only to 1DXII. Is it a real issue? Time will tell...
Keep convincing yourself this is normal. Even when other cameras under the same conditions have no such issues. And keep shooting below f8 until that gunk is welded on to your sensor and you can't get it off no more. (whoops, sensor damaged while cleaning). And let's all forget the untouched f8 image i posted from a brand new camera after a day shooting... Nothing wrong guys, just put your heads back into the sand.
Herb wrote:
I havent had the issue like others on the site have shown. I had to go looking for it by taking a shot of the sky at f16 or greater. I havent seen the issue at f14 or less. I shot at the Cleveland Air Show this past year and didnt have the issue like everyone else commented on in the upper left corner.
In the photos below you can see 3 or 4 pieces, but virtually none in the upper left hand corner.
The photo below is at the end of the day after almost 5,000 photos, the majority that were at high speed shutter sequence.
So, just a quick observation: your photos are exposed correctly for the planes, but the sky is blown out. Of course it will be difficult to discern anything from such over exposed areas. Do you have other photos with a more normal exposure of the sky?
kosin wrote:
Going over my old shots with the Dehaze filter, where I didn't see any dust before, is a horrible experience. Even old shots taken with the 1DX...
Let's wait what Chimping and therealthings have to say about your shots. I've been out for several weeks and have some catch up to do within this thread...
I have a lot to say about these photos:
1) The area of Herb's photos that would be affected is over exposed. Of course particles will not show to the same extent with the sky over blown. The Dehaze tool brought some of the spots back in Herb's examples, but imagine if the sky wasn't pure white and what the spots would look like then.
2) The Dehaze filter, again, for the one-millionth time, is the best and easiest way to show the affected areas to people who say they don't have any spots whatsoever. The Dehaze tool proves these people wrong. No, not all the spots will show during normal (i.e, real world) edits. That being said, a normal edit where detail is brought back into the sky will still easily show a great many of the spots.
3) What about high-contrast black and white photos? Essentially a black and white conversion can do the exact same thing as the Dehaze tool, which is bring all the crud on the sensor right back into full view. Are people unrealistic to want to do black and whites with the 1DX Mark II?
4) People can claim that the problem doesn't show up in their work and that they are not worried about it. What happens when the accumulation becomes so bad it does eventually show up in your work? People have already said in this thread that Canon has been unable to clean their sensors adequately and have had to replace entire sensor assemblies. At some point, if this problem is left without being addressed, the splatter will interfere with your work. And it's also possible Canon will be unable to fix the problem at that stage without charging a premium for repair.
5) Why is it that no other Canon camera seems to suffer from this same problem? Why are people just accepting this as normal for the 1DX Mark II?
6) Don't you think it's odd, even if you are not bothered by the sensor spots, that the spots are predominately located in the same area of the frame -- the upper-left corner? Do you not think that is indicative of something strange?
Skippybud wrote:
I took my camera to CPS in Jamesburg NJ . It’s only an hour drive for me. They did an ok job cleaning the sensor they got everything off the top left corner of frame but left some in the lower left. I shot about 45 frames single shot and took a test shot for dirt and didn’t see any additional dirt/oil. I plan on shooting eagles sometime this weekend so will probably get a few hundred frames at 14fps. I’ll take another test shot after to see how the sensor looks.
Chimping wrote:
I have lots to say about these photos:
1) The area of Herb's photos that would be affected is over exposed. Of course particles will not show to the same extent with the sky over blown. The Dehaze tool brought some of the spots back in Herb's examples, but imagine if the sky wasn't pure white and what the spots would look like then.
2) The Dehaze filter, again, for the one-millionth time, is the best and easiest way to show the affected areas to people who say they don't have any spots whatsoever. The Dehaze tool proves these people wrong. No, not all the spots will show during normal (i.e, real world) edits. That being said, a normal edit where detail is brought back into the sky will still easily show a great many of the spots.
3) What about high-contrast black and white photos? Essentially a black and white conversion can do the exact same thing as the Dehaze tool, which is bring all the crud on the sensor right back into full view. Are people unrealistic to want to do black and whites with the 1DX Mark II?
4) People can claim that the problem doesn't show up in their work and that they are not worried about it. What happens when the accumulation becomes so bad it does eventually show up in your work? People have already said in this thread that Canon has been unable to clean their sensors adequately and have had to replace entire sensor assemblies. At some point, if this problem is left without being addressed, the splatter will interfere with your work. And it's also possible Canon will be unable to fix the problem at that stage without charging a premium for repair.
5) Why is it that no other Canon camera seems to suffer from this same problem? Why are people just accepting this as normal for the 1DX Mark II?
6) Don't you think it's odd, even if you are not bothered by the sensor spots, that the spots are predominately located in the same area of the frame -- the upper-left corner? Do you think that is not indicative of something strange?
kosin wrote:
I also shoot below or at f/8 and barely ever saw this much dust, until now. F%^&ing dehaze filter
I don't think there will be any difference to Pius' report. If there is indeed an issue with extensive dust/oil spots, it wasn't fixed since 1DX days, and most likely won't be fixed now for 1DXII.
Those lines on the sensors, that Chimping reports, is a different story unique only to 1DXII. Is it a real issue? Time will tell...
You may be right; Canon may not address this. I truly believe, in fact, that they won't. It's a real shame. In the end, it will be their loss. I won't purchase another 1D after this. There's more competition than ever before now too. I certainly will be looking around when it comes time for my next purchase.
The sensor line issue is something else that I doubt Canon will ever acknowledge. Unfortunately, it's something people generally won't notice with these cameras for the reasons already discussed (i.e., people shoot wide open with these cameras); people are even less likely to notice sensor lines than oil spots. Furthermore, the sensor lines only affect some, but not all, cameras (unlike the oil issue).
I'd love for Canon to prove me wrong, though. I'd be more than happy to eat humble pie if they did acknowledge the issues, and I'd certainly sing their praises from the rooftops.
therealthings wrote:
Thanks for the more nuanced translation of my post.
Question i have is now, who are we trying to convince here, and what for...
That's just it, isn't it? At this point people either acknowledge there's an issue or continue to deny it and call us the crazy ones.
My hope is to gather more files and continue sending them to Canon. The people that have been willing to send me their RAWs have been an enormous help. I hope more people come forward, as I am sure there are plenty out there that either haven't yet noticed the problem, or are aware of it but don't know just how wide-spread this is.
It's not just a 1DX2 problem. As I said before I've shot 1D2's, 1D4's, 1DX's, 1DX2's, and a 7D2 and they all had accumulation of stuff on the sensor. The DX's definitely have a more pronounced upper left tendency though.
I cleaned my 1DX2 a couple weeks back and it was fairly dirty after almost a year of use and 200K shots.
Used 4 orange swabs with the VD Plus cleaning fluid and it was clean again. No welded on gunk. The apprehension on cleaning the sensor seems way out of wack.
ggreene wrote:
It's not just a 1DX2 problem. As I said before I've shot 1D2's, 1D4's, 1DX's, 1DX2's, and a 7D2 and they all had accumulation of stuff on the sensor. The DX's definitely have a more pronounced upper left tendency though.
I cleaned my 1DX2 a couple weeks back and it was fairly dirty after almost a year of use and 200K shots.
Used 4 orange swabs with the VD Plus cleaning fluid and it was clean again. No welded on gunk. The apprehension on cleaning the sensor seems way out of wack.
It might be a common 1D problem, but I certainly haven't seen it on the 7D Mark IIs I've used extensively. If that's true about the 1Ds, Canon need to change their designs. Send me some 7D Mark II files if you have any with the same phenomena of oil collecting in the upper left corner of the frame. I would LOVE to see them.
This is not a matter of sensors just getting some stuff on them on occasion. This is about hundreds and hundreds of sensor spots accumulating on the sensor. There is a massive difference between what's normal in this case and what is not. If you don't agree that having that amount of junk on the sensor is not good, even from a maintenance standpoint of having to clean it more regularly, then I don't know what to tell you, pal.
Please read this thread carefully. Why are people having their sensor assemblies replaced by Canon if this isn't a problem? Why have others stated that Canon hasn't been able to adequately clean their sensors? Maybe you're more adept at cleaning these sensors than even some Canon technicians?
People should be afraid to clean their sensors on a camera like this; first, the sensor get extraordinarily dirty just from normal use. Second, cleaning all that crud is not easy and if something goes wrong the repair bill is as much as going and purchasing an entry level full frame camera.
EDIT:
I also want to add that even if this were a problem on the old 1D cameras...that's irrelevant. The camera Canon is selling today is the 1DX Mark II, and people shouldn't have to put up with this. Like I said above, if this has been a continuous problem with 1D series cameras, then Canon needs to change their designs. The 1DX Mark II is the only Canon camera currently being sold with this oil splatter problem.
What is that collecting in the upper left corner? Dust or oil spots?
I use GelStick for my sensor cleaning and it picks up most of this stuff. I barely ever have to use wet clean. Will GelStick be effective with picking up oil spots as well?
kosin wrote:
What is that collecting in the upper left corner? Dust or oil spots?
I use GelStick for my sensor cleaning and it picks up most of this stuff. I barely ever have to use wet clean. Will GelStick be effective with picking up oil spots as well?
The vast majority of it is oil. A sensor brush, the wrong swabs, or invisible dust pec pads will smear or push the oil around. On my original sensor that was scratched by a botched Vistek cleaning the oil was pushed everywhere with globules clearly visible on the frame.
Chimping wrote:
The vast majority of it is oil. A sensor brush, the wrong swabs, or invisible dust pec pads will smear or push the oil around. On my original sensor that was scratched by a botched Vistek cleaning the oil was pushed everywhere with globules clearly visible on the frame.
Not disagreeing here at all, just thinking out loud => If it is oil indeed, one can assume that for this amount of oil spots on the sensor, oil must leave the part (the part it should lubricate) in outstanding high rate. In such a high rate that after, let say, 250,000-500,000 shots, there should be less or no oil on that part and also less oil spots. Wouldn't you agree? Assuming that in the mean time, camera never visited Canon facility for a checkup and re-lubrication, after some time, there should be no more oil spots. No more oil/lubricant = no more oil spots. But somehow, this doesn't happen or was never brought up by 1DX/1DXII owners with high shutter count.
kosin wrote:
What is that collecting in the upper left corner? Dust or oil spots?
I use GelStick for my sensor cleaning and it picks up most of this stuff. I barely ever have to use wet clean. Will GelStick be effective with picking up oil spots as well?
That is what I used on my 1DxII. No big deal cleaning.
Chimping wrote:
If you don't agree that having that amount of junk on the sensor is not good, even from a maintenance standpoint of having to clean it more regularly, then I don't know what to tell you, pal.
I put over 700K shots on my 1DX and for most of the time it had junk on the sensor and when I sold it the IQ was just as good as when I bought it. Same with all my other 1D's. The idea that dust/oil sitting on the sensor over time is going to damage it just doesn't hold up to my experience. They are made to be cleaned and maintained.
My 7D2 is long gone as I had a ton of AF issues with it. I got tired of trying to diagnose what was wrong and Canon had no success either on two occasions. I moved on. My suggestion is that you guys do the same. I have very little time to keep shooting with gear that is not optimized for my main subjects.
You guys can collect RAW's till the crack of doom but I doubt Canon will budge. If your work is highly dependent on these kinds of apertures find a camera that doesn't do it.
