p.62 #1 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
TeamSpeed wrote:
It doesn't matter if it looks right to you. I am not being disrespectful, but you aren't the client. What matters is whether the client likes it, and tells their friends. Photographers are MUCH MORE discerning (I use that term loosely) than the average client. It doesn't matter if our eyes don't catch that in one visual moment, that is the beauty of photography, you have the luxury to alter the real scene of what a human eye might see to something different, sometimes better, sometimes worse, but always subjective to the viewer. That is why dynamic range in camera is so important to a set of photographers and not others. This is also why photography is an ART and not a SCIENCE....Show more →
You are right. We all have restrictions and at the end the paying customer counts. But it is NOT the customer who counts only. I am pretty sure pushing the shadows less in this exampel would have kept (or better: raised) the dramatic athmo of the great sky (= moment) instead of disturbing it. And I am pretty sure, the customer would have loved the pic, too. Or maybe even more. Do not forget that the customer sees, what WE offer. And we are the artists they book.
p.62 #2 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
More Perspective
There's little doubt that the 5D4 pulls up the shadows cleaner than the 6D2 does from the comps. Yet, even when I am pulling up far beyond anything I would do ... I don't see the same level of noise come along for the ride. The torture lifts earlier from the IR file, and now this one from DPR ... kinda saying the same thing to me, so far.
The only caveat to this (and nobody commented on before) is if somehow going through DPP>PS for a .tif yields better results than those using other methods for lifting. YMMV
Low ISO is pretty clean, and lifts just fine should the need be there on occasion. High ISO shoots cleaner than trying to go ISO invariant and lift route ...so just shoot it "old school" (you know, matching ISO vs. EV) and I'll be fine in low light.
At this point, I'm ready for the Big Brown Truck and a new box on my doorstep. Gotta get one in my hands to see how it works for real ... for me.
p.62 #3 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
I am surprised how "dirty" the ISO 100 shots look in those comparisons, the same complaints people had with the 7DI. That cleans up okay, as the 7D did, but shouldn't be something we see in a FF in 2017.
p.62 #4 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
PhilDrinkwater wrote: Here it is, one more time:
it's not about correcting exposure errors, but being able to push shadows in a wide dynamic range. The 5 stop pushes simply tell you how much shadow recovery you have available.
+1000
My experience has also been that pushing shadows too much results in an undesirable HDR effect.
And for skin tones, in particular, it outright doesn't work, IMO.
However, knowing that the camera supports clean shadows when pushed is a big confidence booster.
p.62 #5 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
TeamSpeed wrote:
I am surprised how "dirty" the ISO 100 shots look in those comparisons, the same complaints people had with the 7DI. That cleans up okay, as the 7D did, but shouldn't be something we see in a FF in 2017.
Sorry that's mostly inevitable physics that you see at work here - it's called photon shot noise (no technique in the world will be able to do something about that) and only the current craze of malhandling the cameras elevates this to an issue!
p.62 #6 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
The problem is, only a few posters here (and most forums) are genuinely interested in buying a 6DII (myself one of them). Some people were initially interested but now don't think the 6DII is right for them due to its DR, they should leave their comment on how disappointed they are then move on.
People are posting here how they think the body is a waste of money and so much better bodies out there, then go discuss them in their respective threads and leave this one for the people who want to discuss it.
Even IF Canon did market this as a landscape body, doesn't mean every landscape photographer would be pushing their images 3-5 stops in post. Some of the really stand out landscape/travel photographers such as Jimmy Mcintyre shoot with a D800 but still bracket since it gives the cleanest and more natural look. I don't particularity mean to offend anyone , but I certainly like the look of Jimmy's images over the +4 stops HDR look.
p.62 #7 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
charlyw wrote:
Sorry that's mostly inevitable physics that you see at work here - it's called photon shot noise (no technique in the world will be able to do something about that) and only the current craze of malhandling the cameras elevates this to an issue!
There are a few techniques which can address shot noise, including ETTR, bracketing, and image stacking, subject-matter permitting of course.
Jul 23, 2017 at 05:12 PM
brian_sp Offline • • • • [X]
p.62 #8 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
congrats canon
once again you are trying to catch up to nikon
always takes canon years to do
d500, that one is still in the waiting, with luck 7d3 will get close
D800-5ds
D800E-5dsr
canon still chasing the D810 though
D750- 5d4
and now, after a few years of nikon going after the retro look with the DF yet again canon has slowly finally caught up and given you the 6D2 with its 2005 retro sensor
p.62 #10 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Dlee13 wrote:
Even IF Canon did market this as a landscape body, doesn't mean every landscape photographer would be pushing their images 3-5 stops in post. Some of the really stand out landscape/travel photographers such as Jimmy Mcintyre shoot with a D800 but still bracket since it gives the cleanest and more natural look. I don't particularity mean to offend anyone , but I certainly like the look of Jimmy's images over the +4 stops HDR look.
All else being equal bracketing and blending will give an image with the same "look" as a single RAW file with selective exposure adjustments in the brightest/darkest areas. The advantage of bracketing is that it will be cleaner in the shadows, particularly on cameras with poor shadow recovery. Having previously shot with a D800 and D810 for many years I almost never saw the need to bracket as even doing gigantic shadow pushes would yield very little noise. A technique that I found quite useful was to simply double or triple process the same RAW - taking one exposure with the D810's 14.8 stops of DR (DXO measurement) and then in particularly wide DR scenes I could simply duplicate it to have a copy at -1EV, as shot, and +1 EV then blend these together. Takes up less time in the field than taking three exposures, and minimises storage requirements at home.
Here are two of my favourite examples of why as a landscaper I love dynamic range:
Both of those are single exposures and have very little noise even at 100%. They were taken on a D810 and I can say with confidence that from a single exposure very few other cameras could have delivered the result that I got in #1 and in #2 the shadow areas would be far noisier with many other cameras. You can see in #1 that even the D810 - which has almost three stops of extra DR over the 6DII still clipped some highlights and I wasn't able to recover these in post. In hindsight this would have been a good shot to bracket but anyone that has shot Antelope Canyon will know that time is precious and not needing to bracket is very helpful.
Whether these examples are processed to your taste - or anyone else's - will be personal preference of course.
With the D810 I'd not hesitate to push shadow areas by +3 stops if I needed to and the noise penalty would be virtually unnoticeable. In the very rare event I'd need to push over 3, bracketing would deliver the best result although a 4 stop push was still totally usable.
I do resent the common assertion that photographers pushing more than 2 stops need to "learn to shoot" though - landscapers can't control the light. If shooting, for example, a backlit mountain scene, the mountain will often be plunged in shadow and very dark - my choices here are to either bracket and blend, or push the shadows. On cameras with poor DR there is really only one choice, but if a camera has a wide DR I can really do either with no IQ penalty.
p.62 #11 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
I don't think you really can police and decide who discusses this camera in this thread. The thread isn't titled. "All ye who loveth the 6D the 2nd, post herein".
In regards to bracketing, it came about due to poor DR on the early cameras. In 5 to 10 years, nobody will bracket, it will be an old archaic process. If anything, cameras will do dual or triple ISO in camera into the one raw file.
p.62 #12 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
I think I will hold further judgement on the 6DII until I hear more reports from actual users. Disappointment at the sensor numbers may be unwarranted if the camera, in true Canon fashion, turns out to really have better IQ. Time will tell.
Criticism of Phil's example was a bit harsh in my opinion. Yes the HDR was visible, but that may have been necessary for the purpose of the photo. People needed to be recognisable, the pond and vegetation have detail and the sunset toned down and saturated. Maybe it wasn't for a fine art print but for illustrative purposes. I find that images for magazine reproduction require a touch of overcooking to survive the process.
p.62 #14 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Yes the 6Dm2 is on my purchase list. After owning a Rebel XT, 40D, 7D, and 7dm2, I have a want and need for a full frame body. Sure the new 6Dm2 is not a perfect camera but it should suit my needs and accept most all my Canon lens. I'm looking forward to getting this camera.
p.62 #19 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
TeamSpeed wrote:
I don't think you really can police and decide who discusses this camera in this thread. The thread isn't titled. "All ye who loveth the 6D the 2nd, post herein".
In regards to bracketing, it came about due to poor DR on the early cameras. In 5 to 10 years, nobody will bracket, it will be an old archaic process. If anything, cameras will do dual or triple ISO in camera into the one raw file.
In 10 years we will be lucky if there are three ILC makers left altogether.
Sales will continue to decline double digits each year as most users prefer the iPhone and similar products. Nobody will know how to meter at all. Meanwhile, even with 20 stops of DR and virtually no noise at all, 99.9% of all photos will still be crap.
p.62 #20 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Aztatlan wrote:
Whether these examples are processed to your taste - or anyone else's - will be personal preference of course.
Did the trampled path really need to be visible? 0815 shot that you could have easily obtained by bracketing and then you wouldn't have to worry about the blown highlights at all - having blown highlights means that this isn't such an extreme shadow lift as advocated by the DR brigade anyway....
