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Archive 2017 · Sony A9 banding in high-contrast areas

adamdewilde
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Sony A9 banding in high-contrast areas

r.gil wrote:
There are a few people out there who'd like to spend a lot of time looking for flaws on the equipment and then become "heroes" by showing the world how smart and clever they are, instead of going out shooting pictures and then coming here and show us how good and creative they really are

That's a silly thing to say. What if I'm doing a client shoot this weekend and I get the camera Friday and I test it very briefly and then I go out and ruin all my clients photos? BTW this isn't me, but a few people here on the forum are doing exactly that the second the camera is in hand.

I'm not saying this particular problem is bad enough to ruin photos.. But I'd rather someone test this and make me aware of this so I can look out for it, and judge for myself if I want to put up with it or not..

Honestly I'm thankful for people who dig deep and find errors with the sensor. It's not going to stop me from buying and trying the camera.. But if this turns out to be a BIG problem for me, my web sized images, my high res deliverable images and my prints, then it's not the camera for me until the issue is fixed by Sony.

May 26, 2017 at 11:58 PM

randomguy
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Sony A9 banding in high-contrast areas

snapsy wrote:
My guess is that it's related to the on-chip PDAF sensors - the A6000 had a nearly identical issue (here).

Was the A6000 issue ever fixed by Sony?

May 27, 2017 at 12:25 AM

snapsy
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Sony A9 banding in high-contrast areas

randomguy wrote:
Was the A6000 issue ever fixed by Sony?

No, but not much is said about it so I imagine it won't be a big deal for A9 shooters either unless it shows up in more shooting scenarios than the A6000.

May 27, 2017 at 01:17 AM

Stoffer
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Sony A9 banding in high-contrast areas

I can confirm that the issue shows up in Capture One Pro too on that DSC00364.arw raw file from preview.

You can convert to black & white and boost the contrast, if you don't see.

It shows up most clearly in the part of the image where the tonal range go from mid grey to darker greys.

Hope that they can fixed it in a firmware update or calibrate the sensor's for those that need it gone.

Edited on May 27, 2017 at 02:41 AM · View previous versions

May 27, 2017 at 02:03 AM

sirimiri
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Sony A9 banding in high-contrast areas

Sony will get it sorted. Having said that, I learned my lesson about early adoption.

May 27, 2017 at 02:10 AM

Mirror
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Sony A9 banding in high-contrast areas

adamdewilde wrote:
That's a silly thing to say. What if I'm doing a client shoot this weekend and I get the camera Friday and I test it very briefly and then I go out and ruin all my clients photos? BTW this isn't me, but a few people here on the forum are doing exactly that the second the camera is in hand.

Sorry, but it would quite silly to buy a brand new released camera to test 1 day before a wedding or whatever paid job. Even if it would be a A7RII something could be wrong with the device and you simply have no time to swap.

May 27, 2017 at 02:57 AM

adamdewilde
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Sony A9 banding in high-contrast areas

Mirror wrote:
Sorry, but it would quite silly to buy a brand new released camera to test 1 day before a wedding or whatever paid job. Even if it would be a A7RII something could be wrong with the device and you simply have no time to swap.

Tell that to the 10 or so people on here who were hoping to get the camera before X event. And what do you mean silly?

I have three cameras of the same make. If one fails I have a backup. So if I buy the A9 today, and shoot a wedding tomorrow and it fails, or seems to not be working right, I just grab one of my many cameras. As a pro you should/would have backups.

So what if you shoot and all looks well, then you go home and bam all is not well? And honestly limited testing before a paid shoot may not show the problem. But are you telling me that you test your gear as well as a camera tester like lloyd before shooting with it? If so, great.. If not then isn't it good to be made aware of these things so you can look out for them?

May 27, 2017 at 03:31 AM

Stoffer
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Sony A9 banding in high-contrast areas

OK, someone over a dpreview had the same issue with the A7r2:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56844661

Apparently it is a pixel phase detect issue:

Phase detect pixel issue

May 27, 2017 at 04:43 AM

r.gil
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Sony A9 banding in high-contrast areas

Shooting into the Sun...what a brilliant idea...

Reminds me of the guy who drove his car at 120m/h into a brick wall and then he was complaining that the radiator was leaking antifreeze....

May 27, 2017 at 08:12 AM

GMPhotography
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Sony A9 banding in high-contrast areas

Hysteria sells subscriptions. Need I say more, we seen it how many times now. Wise up folks

May 27, 2017 at 09:00 AM

Matt Grum
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Sony A9 banding in high-contrast areas

charles.K wrote:
I have a theory that as we push sensors and in particular those without AA filters we will see this more often.

It's due to on sensor phase detect pixels - all Sonys with OSPDAF do this when pointed at a lightsource. If you take a macro photo of the sensor you see the same pattern. The PD pixels are filtered differently, and thus respond differently to strongly off axis light, which you get a lot when you provoke flare like this.

There's no solution other than to filter it out, or use a different system if veiling flare is your thing...

May 27, 2017 at 09:04 AM

arbitrage
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Sony A9 banding in high-contrast areas

So then as I understand it this is not something that will show up in a regular picture when lifting shadows (like we would have seen on previous Canon sensors) but instead just in these specific areas shooting into sun. Is that correct or does this show up when lifting shadows also?

May 27, 2017 at 09:37 AM

snapsy
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Sony A9 banding in high-contrast areas

arbitrage wrote:
So then as I understand it this is not something that will show up in a regular picture when lifting shadows (like we would have seen on previous Canon sensors) but instead just in these specific areas shooting into sun. Is that correct or does this show up when lifting shadows also?

That's correct.

May 27, 2017 at 09:45 AM

jhinkey
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Sony A9 banding in high-contrast areas

I regularly torture my A7RII with over/under exposure and severe highlight/shadow recovery/lifting and have not seen this.

It could also be that not all copies have this and affected models need adjustment - did something similar not happen to the D200 (I think) and it had nothing to do with Phase Detect pixels - rather it was the duel high speed readout circuits (or something like that) which were not calibrated properly?

May 27, 2017 at 10:28 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Sony A9 banding in high-contrast areas

jhinkey wrote:
I regularly torture my A7RII with over/under exposure and severe highlight/shadow recovery/lifting and have not seen this.

It could also be that not all copies have this and affected models need adjustment - did something similar not happen to the D200 (I think) and it had nothing to do with Phase Detect pixels - rather it was the duel high speed readout circuits (or something like that) which were not calibrated properly?

Perhaps it shows up in other cameras to a lesser degree. Also we are not looking for it and it seems to only happen in backlit conditions where there is veiling flare.
I don't think this is a big as some people are making it to be.

May 27, 2017 at 10:53 AM

snapsy
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Sony A9 banding in high-contrast areas

jhinkey wrote:
I regularly torture my A7RII with over/under exposure and severe highlight/shadow recovery/lifting and have not seen this.

It could also be that not all copies have this and affected models need adjustment - did something similar not happen to the D200 (I think) and it had nothing to do with Phase Detect pixels - rather it was the duel high speed readout circuits (or something like that) which were not calibrated properly?

It's not related to shadow pushing and occurs on other Sony cameras as well, including the A6000 and A7RII.

May 27, 2017 at 10:57 AM

molson
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Sony A9 banding in high-contrast areas

snapsy wrote:
It's not related to shadow pushing and occurs on other Sony cameras as well, including the A6000 and A7RII.

It occurs with the A7R as well, except it's predominantly vertical banding instead of horizontal. It happens when there is a moderately bright light source (not just direct sunlight) next to a very dark area.

May 27, 2017 at 11:12 AM

gnjphotography
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Sony A9 banding in high-contrast areas

Not the same thing at all. I take it you have never heard of silhouettes or rim lighting?
r.gil wrote:
Shooting into the Sun...what a brilliant idea...

Reminds me of the guy who drove his car at 120m/h into a brick wall and then he was complaining that the radiator was leaking antifreeze....

May 27, 2017 at 12:43 PM

r.gil
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Sony A9 banding in high-contrast areas

gnj....I'm very basic and some what ignorant a far as some technical aspects of photography, I don't even look at what I'm shooting most of the time, I just take my Sony with a 28 or 35mm lens and shoot a what ever crosses in my path, some times I get lucky and catch someone doing something interesting or just hanging out there doing nothing at all..!
Once I get home and upload to my computer I have a glass of wine with my good old friend "Photo Shop" and let him/her correct all the flaws that i had made while shooting with my other good friend A7r2..

May 27, 2017 at 02:00 PM

Matt Grum
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Sony A9 banding in high-contrast areas

molson wrote:
It occurs with the A7R as well, except it's predominantly vertical banding instead of horizontal. It happens when there is a moderately bright light source (not just direct sunlight) next to a very dark area.

That sounds like you're describing Sony's lossy RAW compression.

This is something different, and it's an optical effect that occurs even when shooting uncompressed...

May 27, 2017 at 04:07 PM

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