I am fairly certain that i read an official Nikon notice giving that very reason for NOT providing D9 for the D500 but only for the larger sensor in the D5.
I've been shooting high school sports for years, using many generations of Nikon cameras, and using the dynamic focus modes very successfully. This year at some basketball championships I got very frustrated at the number of times my D5 lost focus on the player I was trying to follow. I was considering sending it in for service when I stumbled onto this thread. I believe that the information Steve and others have uncovered explains what was happening. The information about how the dynamic AF system differs from previous camera generations will be invaluable to help avoid such frustrations in the future.
I have pre-purchased Steve's new book to say thank you. Even if I learn nothing new from the book, what I have learned from this thread is more than worth the cost.
AnnJS wrote:
I am fairly certain that i read an official Nikon notice giving that very reason for NOT providing D9 for the D500 but only for the larger sensor in the D5.
The AF modules (focus points) are the same. On the D500 they cover pretty much the entire frame.
sk66 wrote:
The AF modules (focus points) are the same. On the D500 they cover pretty much the entire frame.
Exactly. If you stand in one spot and use the same lens on each camera the focus area will cover the same amount of subject area. Each point should be covering the same amount of subject. You will just have all the extra room around the frame in the D5 image.
I've also purchased Steve's Nikon AF book mainly on account of the extremely helpful information he has generously provided in this thread. The knowledge I've gained about the functioning of the new Dynamic AF modes, is by itself worth more than the price of the book IMHO!
Steve Perry wrote:
Thanks so much for the pre-orders Certainly not necessary but still greatly appreciated
Can't wait to read the ebook Steve.
I have since sent in my lens to Mama for a quick check and also sent in enquiry to Nikon with a link to this thread. I don't hope to get any reaction, but I did it anyway
Your case has been updated.
Hello
Your support case has been updated by one of our team members.
Question details:
Subject: D5 and D500 - Dynamic AF not working correctly | Case #: 01867793
Response from John M
Dear Howard,
Further to your recent inquiry I have some additional information which I hope explains what you are experiencing.
The AF engine in the D5 and D500 has changed significantly to the Multi-CAM 20K AF sensor module, a key difference with this is that besides the significant increase in focusing points it also has its own dedicated processor. Due to all of these different components there are differences compared to previous cameras.
1. What custom option is set for a3 in the camera menu, with the D5 and D500 you get additional control depending on the subject matter. The higher density of AF points can be a benefit or depending on the subject matter reducing the number of dynamic AF points can be good too. See the guide below for further information on how this might be helpful.
AF lock-on can be set with two parameters:
“Subject motion" to set characteristics of the subject’s movement
"Blocked shot AF response" to set sensitivity of response to any object (other than the subject) moving across the frame
Simple setting terms ("Erratic/steady," “Quick/Delayed") are adopted for more intuitive setting
2. The main AF point in Dynamic AF can be moved around and this is recorded where ever it was at the time of exposure after recomposing.
3. Different components are used and listed in the User Manual and its normal for performance to vary between two products in this scenario, not everything is listed in the user manual, but the users guides from our download centre can expand further with this along with asking us directly.
I hope this reply clarifies things and if you have any other queries for Nikon in the future please contact us again.
Kind Regards,
J.B. Maher
Advisor
Nikon Customer Support
Howard Kearley wrote:
The 2nd reply that I have from Nikon UK.
Great, more of the same...
Nikon tech has gone silent on me, I haven't heard back as they indicated I would... I don't know if that means they are advancing the issue and don't have an answer yet, or that they just don't have an answer.
p.22 #10 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue
Howard Kearley wrote:
The 2nd reply that I have from Nikon UK.
Your case has been updated.
Hello
Your support case has been updated by one of our team members.
Question details:
Subject: D5 and D500 - Dynamic AF not working correctly | Case #: 01867793
Response from John M
Dear Howard,
Further to your recent inquiry I have some additional information which I hope explains what you are experiencing.
The AF engine in the D5 and D500 has changed significantly to the Multi-CAM 20K AF sensor module, a key difference with this is that besides the significant increase in focusing points it also has its own dedicated processor. Due to all of these different components there are differences compared to previous cameras.
1. What custom option is set for a3 in the camera menu, with the D5 and D500 you get additional control depending on the subject matter. The higher density of AF points can be a benefit or depending on the subject matter reducing the number of dynamic AF points can be good too. See the guide below for further information on how this might be helpful.
AF lock-on can be set with two parameters:
“Subject motion" to set characteristics of the subject’s movement
"Blocked shot AF response" to set sensitivity of response to any object (other than the subject) moving across the frame
Simple setting terms ("Erratic/steady," “Quick/Delayed") are adopted for more intuitive setting
2. The main AF point in Dynamic AF can be moved around and this is recorded where ever it was at the time of exposure after recomposing.
3. Different components are used and listed in the User Manual and its normal for performance to vary between two products in this scenario, not everything is listed in the user manual, but the users guides from our download centre can expand further with this along with asking us directly.
I hope this reply clarifies things and if you have any other queries for Nikon in the future please contact us again.
Kind Regards,
J.B. Maher
Advisor
Nikon Customer Support
p.22 #11 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue
Howard Kearley wrote:
The 2nd reply that I have from Nikon UK.
Your case has been updated.
Hello
Your support case has been updated by one of our team members.
Question details:
Subject: D5 and D500 - Dynamic AF not working correctly | Case #: 01867793
Response from John M
Dear Howard,
Further to your recent inquiry I have some additional information which I hope explains what you are experiencing.
The AF engine in the D5 and D500 has changed significantly to the Multi-CAM 20K AF sensor module, a key difference with this is that besides the significant increase in focusing points it also has its own dedicated processor. Due to all of these different components there are differences compared to previous cameras.
1. What custom option is set for a3 in the camera menu, with the D5 and D500 you get additional control depending on the subject matter. The higher density of AF points can be a benefit or depending on the subject matter reducing the number of dynamic AF points can be good too. See the guide below for further information on how this might be helpful.
AF lock-on can be set with two parameters:
“Subject motion" to set characteristics of the subject’s movement
"Blocked shot AF response" to set sensitivity of response to any object (other than the subject) moving across the frame
Simple setting terms ("Erratic/steady," “Quick/Delayed") are adopted for more intuitive setting
2. The main AF point in Dynamic AF can be moved around and this is recorded where ever it was at the time of exposure after recomposing.
3. Different components are used and listed in the User Manual and its normal for performance to vary between two products in this scenario, not everything is listed in the user manual, but the users guides from our download centre can expand further with this along with asking us directly.
I hope this reply clarifies things and if you have any other queries for Nikon in the future please contact us again.
Kind Regards,
J.B. Maher
Advisor
Nikon Customer Support
p.22 #12 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue
In other words, AF in the D500 and D5 is declared to be "As Designed" by Nikon so we just have to learn how to use it as it is — or use a different camera.
p.22 #13 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue
AnnJS wrote:
In other words, AF in the D500 and D5 is declared to be "As Designed" by Nikon so we just have to learn how to use it as it is — or use a different camera.
Actually, nothing they said has anything to do with the change in behavior...
p.22 #14 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue
AnnJS wrote:
In other words, AF in the D500 and D5 is declared to be "As Designed" by Nikon so we just have to learn how to use it as it is — or use a different camera.
Ann, you're either on the Nikon payroll, or clueless. Either way, how about just going away?
p.22 #15 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue
Configuring the D500 to have instant four modes of focus.
I was out yesterday shooting with the D500 configured in the following way:
With "3D" selected from the AF/M center button (this is the only way of configuring the 3D mode to a button because it is not available in the configuration menu). The shutter button is turn "off" for AF. Select AF-C.
Pressing the:
1, Back focus button: focus (AF on) configured to single point....BBF chooses single point and activates focus.
2, PV button: chooses 3D mode and activates focus.
3, FNI button chooses group mode and activates focus.
4, Multi function joystick "center button" chooses auto mode and activates focus. The joystick it's self still moves around the AF mode however!
As the three dynamic modes are now next to useless (IMHO), in this configuration they are now available only from the AF/M focus button, however, any one of these could still be selected with this configuration from the AF/M button via the front wheel by replacing the selected 3D mode with one of the dynamic modes; it would then be used via the AF joystick center button.
The net result is you have the four main AF functions instantly there under your finger tips with no need to change focus modes via the AF/M center button. This is incredibly useful when shooting a heavy telephoto where the left hand has to reach round for the button leaving the heavy lens unsupported, putting strain on the camera mount. (something I don't like to do)
Your pinky finger gains you group mode (FN1), your index gives you 3D (PV) and your thumb BBF/AFon gives you "single point" and the "center button" of the joystick for using the "auto area mode"
You can switch from one AF mode to another instantly on the fly whilst shooting and what's more the AF point follows on from the last mode, so if were in say in auto mode with the point on the bird,it will continue to follow when changing to say group mode or 3D mode.
The center button within the selector NSEW crown still centers the focus point.
I made a special test of the AF auto area mode.
Normally it focuses on the nearest object in the frame, however it is also well suited to following BIFs when most of the screen is covering the sky. It's a mix between 3D mode and dynamic in it's effect and functions like dynamic mode only across the whole screen "without the hassle/difficulty" of having to put the focus point on the erratic bird or keep it on the bird. In the event of the bird becoming low in the sky, press FN1 and continue in group mode.
In practice I found I became accustomed after a few hours, well worth the time of investment!
It also reports the focus point which you see following the bird to Nikon's View NX-i, so when reviewing you know whether the point was on your bird. It worked fine!
I think we can safely assume that Nikon is going to do "diddly squit" in the way of FW update to change the three dynamic modes and this configuration seems to cover it's crippled shortcomings.
p.22 #16 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue
daves cliches wrote:
Configuring the D500 to have instant four modes of focus.
I was out yesterday shooting with the D500 configured in the following way:
With "3D" selected from the AF/M center button (this is the only way of configuring the 3D mode to a button because it is not available in the configuration menu). The shutter button is turn "off" for AF. Select AF-C.
Pressing the:
1, Back focus button: focus (AF on) configured to single point....BBF chooses single point and activates focus.
2, PV button: chooses 3D mode and activates focus.
3, FNI button chooses group mode and activates focus.
4, Multi function joystick "center button" chooses auto mode and activates focus. The joystick it's self still moves around the AF mode however!
As the three dynamic modes are now next to useless (IMHO), in this configuration they are now available only from the AF/M focus button, however, any one of these could still be selected with this configuration from the AF/M button via the front wheel by replacing the selected 3D mode with one of the dynamic modes; it would then be used via the AF joystick center button.
The net result is you have the four main AF functions instantly there under your finger tips with no need to change focus modes via the AF/M center button. This is incredibly useful when shooting a heavy telephoto where the left hand has to reach round for the button leaving the heavy lens unsupported, putting strain on the camera mount. (something I don't like to do)
Your pinky finger gains you group mode (FN1), your index gives you 3D (PV) and your thumb BBF/AFon gives you "single point" and the "center button" of the joystick for using the "auto area mode"
You can switch from one AF mode to another instantly on the fly whilst shooting and what's more the AF point follows on from the last mode, so if were in say in auto mode with the point on the bird,it will continue to follow when changing to say group mode or 3D mode.
The center button within the selector NSEW crown still centers the focus point.
I made a special test of the AF auto area mode.
Normally it focuses on the nearest object in the frame, however it is also well suited to following BIFs when most of the screen is covering the sky. It's a mix between 3D mode and dynamic in it's effect and functions like dynamic mode only across the whole screen "without the hassle/difficulty" of having to put the focus point on the erratic bird or keep it on the bird. In the event of the bird becoming low in the sky, press FN1 and continue in group mode.
In practice I found I became accustomed after a few hours, well worth the time of investment!
It also reports the focus point which you see following the bird to Nikon's View NX-i, so when reviewing you know whether the point was on your bird. It worked fine!
I think we can safely assume that Nikon is going to do "diddly squit" in the way of FW update to change the three dynamic modes and this configuration seems to cover it's crippled shortcomings.
Personally, I get too confused with that many choices
What I do is set my AF mode to whatever I think I'll need and assign my Pv button to an alternate. For instance, if I'm doing action, I may have my AF Area set to Group, but Single Point on the Pv button. If I'm doing mammals, I can probably get away with Single Point, so I'll have that as my main and Group on the Pv. Just easier for me (I've never been accused of being coordinated), certainly not the only way to manage it
Oh, and agree 100% - not sure Nikon is going to do anything. However, at this point we still may just be talking to the front line people, I'm still (very slightly) hopeful for an eventual solution that maybe involves a switch for both the old and new Dynamic behaviour. (fingers crossed).
p.22 #17 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue
daves cliches wrote:
Configuring the D500 to have instant four modes of focus.
I was out yesterday shooting with the D500 configured in the following way:
With "3D" selected from the AF/M center button (this is the only way of configuring the 3D mode to a button because it is not available in the configuration menu). The shutter button is turn "off" for AF. Select AF-C.
Pressing the:
1, Back focus button: focus (AF on) configured to single point....BBF chooses single point and activates focus.
2, PV button: chooses 3D mode and activates focus.
3, FNI button chooses group mode and activates focus.
4, Multi function joystick "center button" chooses auto mode and activates focus. The joystick it's self still moves around the AF mode however!
As the three dynamic modes are now next to useless (IMHO), in this configuration they are now available only from the AF/M focus button, however, any one of these could still be selected with this configuration from the AF/M button via the front wheel by replacing the selected 3D mode with one of the dynamic modes; it would then be used via the AF joystick center button.
The net result is you have the four main AF functions instantly there under your finger tips with no need to change focus modes via the AF/M center button. This is incredibly useful when shooting a heavy telephoto where the left hand has to reach round for the button leaving the heavy lens unsupported, putting strain on the camera mount. (something I don't like to do)
Your pinky finger gains you group mode (FN1), your index gives you 3D (PV) and your thumb BBF/AFon gives you "single point" and the "center button" of the joystick for using the "auto area mode"
You can switch from one AF mode to another instantly on the fly whilst shooting and what's more the AF point follows on from the last mode, so if were in say in auto mode with the point on the bird,it will continue to follow when changing to say group mode or 3D mode.
The center button within the selector NSEW crown still centers the focus point.
I made a special test of the AF auto area mode.
Normally it focuses on the nearest object in the frame, however it is also well suited to following BIFs when most of the screen is covering the sky. It's a mix between 3D mode and dynamic in it's effect and functions like dynamic mode only across the whole screen "without the hassle/difficulty" of having to put the focus point on the erratic bird or keep it on the bird. In the event of the bird becoming low in the sky, press FN1 and continue in group mode.
In practice I found I became accustomed after a few hours, well worth the time of investment!
It also reports the focus point which you see following the bird to Nikon's View NX-i, so when reviewing you know whether the point was on your bird. It worked fine!
I think we can safely assume that Nikon is going to do "diddly squit" in the way of FW update to change the three dynamic modes and this configuration seems to cover it's crippled shortcomings.
I use Group on the AF-ON, Dynamic on the Joystick and Single on the Pv. But now I'm going to change to Single on the Joystick and maybe 3D on the Pv. I was confused the other day as to why 3D wasn't showing up as an option to add to the buttons. But after reading your post I see that I have to have it as the main selection....thanks for that info. Once it is selected from the main AF/M button can it then be moved to any button?
p.22 #18 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue
Another Reply from Nikon UK today,
Check this one out.
Your case has been updated.
Hello
Your support case has been updated by one of our team members.
Question details:
Subject: D5 and D500 - Dynamic AF not working correctly | Case #: 01867793
Response from John M
Hi Howard,
Thank you for your reply and link. I can assure you that all customer feedback and suggestions are given consideration and I have forwarded yours to the appropriate department for future consideration.
Please note that due the number of similar communications we receive, we cannot offer a response to each suggestion individually. Please keep an eye out for any future firmware updates that may adjust the Dynamic AF operation more to your preference.
Kind Regards,
J.B. Maher
Advisor
Nikon Customer Support
p.22 #19 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue
Howard Kearley wrote:
Another Reply from Nikon UK today,
Check this one out.
Your case has been updated.
Hello
Your support case has been updated by one of our team members.
Question details:
Subject: D5 and D500 - Dynamic AF not working correctly | Case #: 01867793
Response from John M
Hi Howard,
Thank you for your reply and link. I can assure you that all customer feedback and suggestions are given consideration and I have forwarded yours to the appropriate department for future consideration.
Please note that due the number of similar communications we receive, we cannot offer a response to each suggestion individually. Please keep an eye out for any future firmware updates that may adjust the Dynamic AF operation more to your preference.
Kind Regards,
J.B. Maher
Advisor
Nikon Customer Support ...Show more →
If they are getting so many similar communications then I'd think they could respond with a generic response to each person.
Now the question is if the mention of FW is just to get you off their backs and hope you go away and forget about it while you wait for some non-existent future FW. OR if they are actually going to look into this and work on a FW change to be more like the previous cameras?
p.22 #20 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue
arbitrage wrote:
If they are getting so many similar communications then I'd think they could respond with a generic response to each person.
Now the question is if the mention of FW is just to get you off their backs and hope you go away and forget about it while you wait for some non-existent future FW. OR if they are actually going to look into this and work on a FW change to be more like the previous cameras?
surprised he put that in there as it had no reference to what I wrote,
Certainly not necessary but still greatly appreciated