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Archive 2017 · Nikon's new strategy....sounds good to me...

  
 
vitalishe
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p.4 #1 · Nikon's new strategy....sounds good to me...


JohnK007 wrote:
The trouble with "low end" is three-fold:

1) Those who buy budget cameras, typically buy budget glass;

2) The R&D for low-end is outdated almost as soon as it comes into being;

3) People who "get hooked" on photography, and decide to invest in more-and-more gear almost immediately regret buying low-end, and then have several hundred dollars in gear they now want to dispose of and replace with better gear.

It is simply better to save-up for a few additional months, and get mid-level to high-end gear to begin with, and not worry about "entry level" at all. I think it is a good
...Show more

I started with D90 and the kit 18-105 VR. I had a friend with D200 and bunch of expensive glass. There was no way of convincing me then that it is better to save up more and get better camera or better glass.

Moreover, I am not sure it is actually true that it is better to wait and save for better glass/camera. I feel it is better to practice and learn with cheaper and possibly inferior equipment than with no equipment at all. Moreover there are depreciation costs that are lower on cheaper equipment. One can always sell what they don't need to buy something they want. So, when one is ready he can get the fency stuff, but now cheaper.

So, I strongly believe that D3x00 budget line is great both for Nikon and for new users.




Feb 28, 2017 at 03:00 AM
LeifG
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p.4 #2 · Nikon's new strategy....sounds good to me...


Lance B wrote:
It's not the reason I posted this link. I posted the link to show that even less people will opt for an entry level DLSR because they can now get a "good enough camera in their phone". I see less and less people with entry level DSLR's and especially P&S cameras, a phone with a zoom lens in it will be another nail in the coffin of the entry level DSLR and P&S range, probably why Nikon saw the writing on the wall.


The camera phone will still have a small sensor and compromised lens which means high noise, and lower resolution and contrast. People buy the entry level DSLR because they are a bit more keen on photography, but don't need, or can't afford, the more expensive gear. I still see lots of bridge cameras and entry level DSLRs in use. That is why I feel that the entry level DSLR has its place. Of course I might be wrong, and you might be right, time will tell. Let's get back here in 5 years time.



Feb 28, 2017 at 06:31 AM
Lance B
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p.4 #3 · Nikon's new strategy....sounds good to me...


LeifG wrote:
The camera phone will still have a small sensor and compromised lens which means high noise, and lower resolution and contrast. People buy the entry level DSLR because they are a bit more keen on photography, but don't need, or can't afford, the more expensive gear. I still see lots of bridge cameras and entry level DSLRs in use. That is why I feel that the entry level DSLR has its place. Of course I might be wrong, and you might be right, time will tell. Let's get back here in 5 years time.


Most people at this end are just after a recorded image of the moment and ease of use. The camera phone does that quite admirably. Lower resolution is marginal, noise is irrelevant in most cases as it is addressed by in phone jpeg engine. Each of my children used to have and use their DSLR and I haven't seen them use one years, their camera phone is good enough for their requirements, one with a zoom would be even better.



Feb 28, 2017 at 08:02 AM
LeifG
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p.4 #4 · Nikon's new strategy....sounds good to me...


Lance B wrote:
Most people at this end are just after a recorded image of the moment and ease of use. The camera phone does that quite admirably. Lower resolution is marginal, noise is irrelevant in most cases as it is addressed by in phone jpeg engine. Each of my children used to have and use their DSLR and I haven't seen them use one years, their camera phone is good enough for their requirements, one with a zoom would be even better.


I am sure you are right that most people will be happy with a camera phone. More people than ever are taking snaps. The DLSR/ILC is for someone who wants better images.

Until a few years back we saw a huge growth in the sales of DSLR cameras because they had become affordable, and technology was improving so rapidly that there was a good reason to upgrade even if one already had a camera. The market is now saturated, so profits are down, and as you indicate, most people make use of a camera phone. I maintain that there is a market for the entry level DSLR or ILC. It looks as if Nikon disagree, although it does really depend on what they actually meant in the statements referred to in the original post.



Feb 28, 2017 at 08:30 AM
Diallo_Jamal
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p.4 #5 · Nikon's new strategy....sounds good to me...


LeifG wrote:
I am sure you are right that most people will be happy with a camera phone. More people than ever are taking snaps. The DLSR/ILC is for someone who wants better images.

Until a few years back we saw a huge growth in the sales of DSLR cameras because they had become affordable, and technology was improving so rapidly that there was a good reason to upgrade even if one already had a camera. The market is now saturated, so profits are down, and as you indicate, most people make use of a camera phone. I maintain that there is
...Show more

I'd like to think the reorientation mentioned was perhaps lengthening life cycles for the entry level cameras (Which may allow more aggressive pricing post launch), as opposed to abandoning the market. It'll be what it will be whichever way it goes.



Feb 28, 2017 at 10:42 AM
Pixphatic
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p.4 #6 · Nikon's new strategy....sounds good to me...


To counter the threat from the mobile cameras, it seems that the camera Cos would come out with a simple sharing app from cameras to mobiles and ready to be uploaded, after basic editing, via wifi or bluetooth.
Also it seems in addition to the already available file size options of JPEG/RAW/TIFF, a 'web-ready' file size of apprx 500/750 kb would be offered for ready sharing and instant upload via mobile and apps.
We are living in a tech driven era, and these are just too simple features to get installed.
Besides there are already wifi SD cards to do the sharing job a bit easier for us.
To me all these are parts of 're-orientation' as well.
The technology has to evolve, some how or the other ....it is the very essence of technology. Isn't it..??



Feb 28, 2017 at 11:25 AM
chez
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p.4 #7 · Nikon's new strategy....sounds good to me...


PIXPHATIC wrote:
To counter the threat from the mobile cameras, it seems that the camera Cos would come out with a simple sharing app from cameras to mobiles and ready to be uploaded, after basic editing, via wifi or bluetooth.
Also it seems in addition to the already available file size options of JPEG/RAW/TIFF, a 'web-ready' file size of apprx 500/750 kb would be offered for ready sharing and instant upload via mobile and apps.
We are living in a tech driven era, and these are just too simple features to get installed.
Besides there are already wifi SD cards to
...Show more

Why would someone carry a camera with these wifi abilities when they have a phone already with them that does the same?



Feb 28, 2017 at 11:35 AM
Pixphatic
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p.4 #8 · Nikon's new strategy....sounds good to me...


chez wrote:
Why would someone carry a camera with these wifi abilities when they have a phone already with them that does the same?


Digitally many things are made possible nowadays,but 'optically' there is still a gap IMO...

Edited on Feb 28, 2017 at 01:20 PM · View previous versions



Feb 28, 2017 at 12:34 PM
carlitos
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p.4 #9 · Nikon's new strategy....sounds good to me...


Going forward, I'd like for Nikon to be more forthcoming in their product announcements. They are doing an excellent job of keeping new products secret. We are 4 months from their 100 anniversary, and know little or nothing about their special anniversary product. They have updates of 2 major products - D750 and D810- coming and we know little about them.

As secretive as Apple is, we still know much of what the I-phone 8 will look like and it's about 8 months away from being launched. Actually, Nikon could benefit from mimicking Apple's marketing. Keep the hype running up until product release. Nikon's existing product is good enough to be sold as lower priced previous models and refurbished units.



Feb 28, 2017 at 12:46 PM
Max Power
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p.4 #10 · Nikon's new strategy....sounds good to me...


chez wrote:
Why would someone carry a camera with these wifi abilities when they have a phone already with them that does the same?


Maybe they want to post social media pictures of higher quality directly to databases of social media sites without having to pull cards or connect cables to a PC to do it?




Feb 28, 2017 at 01:01 PM
cvrle59
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p.4 #11 · Nikon's new strategy....sounds good to me...


carlitos wrote:
Going forward, I'd like for Nikon to be more forthcoming in their product announcements. They are doing an excellent job of keeping new products secret. We are 4 months from their 100 anniversary, and know little or nothing about their special anniversary product. They have updates of 2 major products - D750 and D810- coming and we know little about them.

As secretive as Apple is, we still know much of what the I-phone 8 will look like and it's about 8 months away from being launched. Actually, Nikon could benefit from mimicking Apple's marketing. Keep the hype running up until
...Show more

Yes, there is no any rumor on D750/D810 replacement, but there is one on D7300...



Feb 28, 2017 at 01:03 PM
chez
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p.4 #12 · Nikon's new strategy....sounds good to me...


Max Power wrote:
Maybe they want to post social media pictures of higher quality directly to databases of social media sites without having to pull cards or connect cables to a PC to do it?



Sure a few...but for the vast majority that shoot phone images...the phone image is good enough today...and who knows how good tomorrow. I just cannot see swaying the phone photo crowd to purchasing a bulky...yes it can't fit into your pocket, DSLR when they already have something that works for them.

Here is a photo I snapped using an older iphone in pano mode. Do you think the majority of people want better quality images to post onto facebook?









Feb 28, 2017 at 01:13 PM
cvrle59
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p.4 #13 · Nikon's new strategy....sounds good to me...


I agree with you Chez, but you need to get a better phone, it's about time...
Just kidding!





Nokia Lumia 1020 - 4/5 years old model, but still going strong.



Edited on Feb 28, 2017 at 04:10 PM · View previous versions



Feb 28, 2017 at 01:33 PM
Lance B
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p.4 #14 · Nikon's new strategy....sounds good to me...


chez wrote:
Why would someone carry a camera with these wifi abilities when they have a phone already with them that does the same?


If you've taken a photo with your DSLR, rather then have to take another with your phone, you just upload it straight from your camera. You may be on a trip somewhere using your DSLR for best results and take a photo and want to send it straight to the whatever social media site you belong to.



Feb 28, 2017 at 04:09 PM
chez
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p.4 #15 · Nikon's new strategy....sounds good to me...


Lance B wrote:
If you've taken a photo with your DSLR, rather then have to take another with your phone, you just upload it straight from your camera. You may be on a trip somewhere using your DSLR for best results and take a photo and want to send it straight to the whatever social media site you belong to.


Obviously I understand that...but the question is why would someone who is using a phone to take photos for their facebook site be enticed with a big DSLR that basically does the same thing...except it is too big to put into a pocket, and it does not allow you to txt or make phone calls? Remember, these people are happy with the quality they are getting from the phone cameras...at least happy enough not to get another camera.

See the problem is the new people coming into the photo scene are flocking towards their phone cameras and away from a dedicated camera..why...because the images they get from their phones are good enough for facebook and they have that phone with them everywhere they go anyways.



Feb 28, 2017 at 04:35 PM
vitalishe
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p.4 #16 · Nikon's new strategy....sounds good to me...


chez wrote:
Obviously I understand that...but the question is why would someone who is using a phone to take photos for their facebook site be enticed with a big DSLR that basically does the same thing...except it is too big to put into a pocket, and it does not allow you to txt or make phone calls? Remember, these people are happy with the quality they are getting from the phone cameras...at least happy enough not to get another camera.

See the problem is the new people coming into the photo scene are flocking towards their phone cameras and away from a dedicated
...Show more

You operate under the assumption that these users are fine with the image quality coming from their phone.
In this case, of course there is no need for anything else.

On the other hand, for people who are not satisfied with phone images dedicated cameras may be the way to go.
And to be honest, as soon as the available light becomes low phone images look like crap. Also, dedicated cameras come in a variety of sizes. Fuji and Sony make rather compact mirrorless bodies. D5300 with a kit 18-55 VR2 is much smaller than Nikon FX bodies (and it has built-in WiFi and GPS). So one can find a balance between image quality and bulk as one prefers.





Feb 28, 2017 at 05:11 PM
LeifG
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p.4 #17 · Nikon's new strategy....sounds good to me...


chez wrote:
Obviously I understand that...but the question is why would someone who is using a phone to take photos for their facebook site be enticed with a big DSLR that basically does the same thing...except it is too big to put into a pocket, and it does not allow you to txt or make phone calls? Remember, these people are happy with the quality they are getting from the phone cameras...at least happy enough not to get another camera.

See the problem is the new people coming into the photo scene are flocking towards their phone cameras and away from a dedicated
...Show more

I think some of us are coming at this from different viewpoints. Without a doubt most camera users today will be using a camera phone, because it is convenient, they already have a phone, and it takes better photos than many compact cameras of yesteryear. Compact digital camera sales are dropping because the camera phone is as good. There always have been happy snappers, although today there are more due to the prevalence of the mobile phone. But equally there have always been people who want to take photography a bit more seriously, and they bought an SLR, or more recently a DSLR. Entry level DSLRs are the perfect way to dip the toe into better image quality territory. Even some budget zooms are really quite good these days. Hell, some really good photographers sometimes carry an entry level camera because it is smaller than the bricks they normally carry.

There is a think a miconception based on the observation that phone camera sales have rocketed and DSLR sales are sinking. The erroneous conclusion is that the DSLR is dying. In truth people have a camera phone because they have a phone, and the camera is included. They upgrade phones regularly, hence they upgrade their camera regularly. DSLR sales rocketed because the technology was new, had recently become affordable, and after a few years the newer cameras were much better. But, DSLR technology has been slowing, and the DSLR market is saturated as must of us have one. People still use the DSLR, but fewer are sold because there is no real point to upgrade, at least not for many years. People prefer to skip a few generations before upgrading. So sales have plummeted giving the false impression that we have fallen out of love with them.

In other words, people still use DSLRs, even though camera phone use grown hugely. It's horses for courses, each to their own, apples and pears, or whichever trite aphorism you can think of.



Feb 28, 2017 at 05:15 PM
Lance B
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p.4 #18 · Nikon's new strategy....sounds good to me...


chez wrote:
Obviously I understand that...but the question is why would someone who is using a phone to take photos for their facebook site be enticed with a big DSLR that basically does the same thing...except it is too big to put into a pocket, and it does not allow you to txt or make phone calls? Remember, these people are happy with the quality they are getting from the phone cameras...at least happy enough not to get another camera.

See the problem is the new people coming into the photo scene are flocking towards their phone cameras and away from a dedicated
...Show more

Not disputing that and I agree that camera phones are eating into DSLR & P&S sales. However, if these people want better IQ, then they really need to look at DSLR's, Mirrorless and a decent P&S. Will enough want to go the DLSR route? I do not know, but I would hope that camera manufacturers market research would give them an answer. The saving grace may be that there are huge markets opening up from China, India and many more of the developing countries that have an emerging middle class and they will want a decent camera rather than their camera phone.



Feb 28, 2017 at 05:32 PM
charles.K
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p.4 #19 · Nikon's new strategy....sounds good to me...


With respect to entry level DSLR's or mirrorless, some of the most discerning groups are parents with young kids. This is so important for them. They often try to capture images of their new born or children running around and realize the smart phone is not enough for movement or taking shots inside in lower light.

I personally know of 6 young families around me, and 5 of them have an entry level DSLR's for this reason alone. They all have great smart phones and use them a lot, but I am always amazed at the quality of the images they capture with these entry level DSLR's. Great photography has a lot to do with the connection you have, and who better than very motivated parents or family members to capture these images.



Feb 28, 2017 at 05:36 PM
Max Power
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p.4 #20 · Nikon's new strategy....sounds good to me...


Lance B wrote:
Not disputing that and I agree that camera phones are eating into DSLR & P&S sales. However, if these people want better IQ, then they really need to look at DSLR's, Mirrorless and a decent P&S. Will enough want to go the DLSR route? I do not know, but I would hope that camera manufacturers market research would give them an answer. The saving grace may be that there are huge markets opening up from China, India and many more of the developing countries that have an emerging middle class and they will want a decent camera rather than
...Show more

Are phone cameras really eating into DSLR sales? I am not sure that they are. Let's think about the markets for a bit.

DSLR sales grew exponentially over film body sales early on for a number of reasons. One, I think that users could now shoot hundreds of images with no film and developing costs, so digital was a bargain. I quit film for a decade because of costs, I jumped back in when the D70 was affordable. Digital brought me back to the hobby. Also, being a new technology, tons people were upgrading because of the exponential technology growth. Manufacturers weren't selling to new DSLR customers at this point, they were selling to the same people that bought previous versions, making the growth of the *number of photographers* stats a little misleading. It is very similar to home PC sales, where you had to upgrade every 2 years to keep up with software development, etc. Now, DSLRs are in the same position. It is a fairly mature technology, like PCs or smart phones. The same customers don't automatically upgrade any more. And I feel THAT is the reason for the decline in DSLR sales, not smart phones. In reality, since the technology is pretty well vetted, we are returning to sales rates reminiscent of the film days.

Smart phones are a market segment that I don't really feel affects DSLR sales much at all, because smart phone photographers were at best, P&S shooters or in most cases, not shooters at all. How many people do you think you see shooting everyday life on their phone would have ever considered carrying a camera of any sort everywhere they go? I would guess 98% just wouldn't be taking pictures if their already paid for phone didn't have a camera in it. I read a stat that there were more pictures taken in a month last year than there were in the first 100 years of photography combined. That isn't because more people wanted to be involved in photography as a hobby, it was because a tool was put in their hand to make it painfully easy.

So, in regards to Chez's concern that adding smart phone technology to a DSLR would not convert smart phone users to DSLR users, he is right, but that completely misses the point, IMO. Adding that technology has a better chance of getting present DSLR users to upgrade, a category of people that I feel are responsible for the DSLR sales decline in the first place. And that would be a good thing.

Clearly, the P&S category has been decimated by smart phones, as it probably should. The new phones have a P&S built in. It's kinda like how people no longer have to pay for the Garmin app for their phone now that Google maps is free.




Feb 28, 2017 at 06:13 PM
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