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Archive 2017 · Question regarding an umbrella softbox

  
 
suhsin
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p.1 #1 · Question regarding an umbrella softbox


How do these ones perform compared to ordinary retangular softboxes and shoot through umbrellas?
http://savageuniversal.com/products/reflectors-umbrellas/umbrella-softbox

I've read somewhere that the light coming out of these are softer at longer distances compared to an umbrella, is that true?
When should these be used?
Has anyone used it?

Thanks!



Feb 20, 2017 at 06:55 PM
Steve Wylie
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p.1 #2 · Question regarding an umbrella softbox


As a general rule of thumb, any light that has some diffusion in front of it will appear softer than a light source without diffusion. Of course, it also depends on how close to the subject you place it (the closer the better). I don't have this particular modifier, but I have used the Phottix Softlighters as well as the Elinchrom Varistar umbrella, both of which have the black backing and an umbrella design. The Varistar is directly shoot-through, while the Softlighter is reflected back through the diffuser screen. Both work great. I use them all the time for broad fill, as well as for close-in headshots in circumstances where a soft box is impractical (e.g. run-and-gun or outdoor portraiture where wind is a consideration. They do not provide the precise light control of a soft box, but if light spill isn't a concern (e.g. outdoors where there isn't anything directly behind the subject), they work great. So, to repeat, I use them primarily as broad fill sources, rather than where precise light control is needed. But in tight, they also work well as diffused sources, as long as precise control of spill isn't required.


Feb 20, 2017 at 07:14 PM
suhsin
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p.1 #3 · Question regarding an umbrella softbox


Steve Wylie wrote:
As a general rule of thumb, any light that has some diffusion in front of it will appear softer than a light source without diffusion. Of course, it also depends on how close to the subject you place it (the closer the better). I don't have this particular modifier, but I have used the Phottix Softlighters as well as the Elinchrom Varistar umbrella, both of which have the black backing and an umbrella design. The Varistar is directly shoot-through, while the Softlighter is reflected back through the diffuser screen. Both work great. I use them all the time for
...Show more

Appreciate your response.
By broad fill you mean a widespread light coverage?
So Varistar is good for face-paced events indoor where you essentially have to run-and-gun right? Would you say it is better than a reflective in terms of giving soft light?



Feb 20, 2017 at 07:35 PM
Steve Wylie
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p.1 #4 · Question regarding an umbrella softbox


Basically, the difference between a soft box and an umbrella is the degree of control over light spill that a soft box gives you. An umbrella spills light all over the place, due to it's shape, whether it's a shoot-through umbrella or a reflective umbrella. A rectangular (or an octagonal) soft box, particularly those with sides that extend beyond the face of the box, limits that spread. Another contributing factor to the quality of light in either a soft box or an umbrella is the color of the fabric in the interior of the modifier. A silver material will provide a more specular light, while a white interior will provide less specularity. Then, in front of that comes the diffusion fabric, which provides an extra degree of softness to the light. So there are several different factors that contribute to the quality of light from your modifier: spill, or the ability to control it; specularity, or the lack thereof; and diffusion. A soft box can provide all of these attributes, while a shoot-through umbrella can only provide diffusion. That said, each of these factors are affected by the size of the modifier and the proximity of the modifier to the subject. The closer the modifier (whether a soft box or an umbrella) is to the subject, the softer the light will be. Also, the larger the modifier is, the softer the light. Working together, this means that the "apparent size" of the light determines its softness. Thus, a small modifier placed very close to the subject will be softer than a large modifier placed far away.

The point of this, like just about everything in photography, is that the look you want depends on a lot of factors, including your composition (what's in the frame), what you want to light (versus what you don't want to light), and the quality of the light you want to achieve. Knowing what different modifiers are designed to light, and then where to place them, will determine the success of your lighting strategy.

Now, to answer your specific questions, by "broad fill" I mean providing a base level of light across a wide area. For example, I shoot dancers in a studio environment. Placing single strobe in a Varistar shoot-through umbrella up high, about 20 feet from a studio backdrop, I can light the entire backdrop that is also 20 feet wide within a relatively narrow variance (about a half-stop) from side to side. That is due to the shape of the umbrella, which spreads the light all over the place. I will then use an octagonal soft box, placed on either the left or right side, at an angle of about 30-45 degrees, to provide a highlight side on my subjects. That soft box is designed to control the spread of light, when aimed properly, so it does not inordinately affect the amount of light on my backdrop.

Your second question, relating to fast-paced indoor events where mobility is required, is a different matter. Your direct question relates to soft light, and my answer is the same as before; any light that is diffused will give softer light than one that is not (i.e. shoot-through vs. reflective). But again, it's a matter of control over your light. If I were shooting an event such as this, I don't think I would use a large shoot-through umbrella, unless you want broad coverage. Usually, in an event such as a wedding reception, or table shots of guests, you'll want a smaller light source. Dragging a light stand with an umbrella can be done, but it isn't really very practical. In those situations, I would more likely have a flash on camera with as large a speed light-mounted modifier as possible (e.g. a Rogue Flash Bender). However, if you're setting up a shooting environment where guests come to you to have photos made, a setup with a shoot-through umbrella can be ideal. It's a forgiving light modifier precisely because it casts light all over the place. Your main consideration, in this situation, is what kind of shadow does your light cast? Where is it; is it harsh or is it diffuse? Those are issues that can be addressed by careful placement of your light.

I hope this helps to clarify some of the factors in choosing a light modifier. I'd also suggest that you check out strobist.com, specifically his Lighting 101 series of lessons. It's free and very worthwhile.



Feb 21, 2017 at 01:15 AM
Fred Amico
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p.1 #5 · Question regarding an umbrella softbox


^^ Not the OP, but jumping in to say how much I appreciated your follow up post, Steve. I learned from it.


Feb 21, 2017 at 01:44 AM
rico
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p.1 #6 · Question regarding an umbrella softbox


Steve, it's always a pleasure to come across a well-written piece of English, and the content is excellent, too.


Feb 21, 2017 at 03:47 AM
MayaTlab
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p.1 #7 · Question regarding an umbrella softbox


Steve Wylie wrote:
Basically, the difference between a soft box and an umbrella is the degree of control over light spill that a soft box gives you. An umbrella spills light all over the place, due to it's shape, whether it's a shoot-through umbrella or a reflective umbrella. A rectangular (or an octagonal) soft box, particularly those with sides that extend beyond the face of the box, limits that spread. .


Great post but this paragraph is a bit out of date since at least 2009 . Umbrellas in general don't "spill light all over the place", and it isn't necessarily correlated with shape (and asbolutely not with depth, contrary to what many would have you believe).

In fact a Paul Buff PLM in extreme silver, which is even better than the poor Cactus copy below, will whoop any softbox's bottom even when fitted with a grid in terms of beam angle :



The Cactus here gives results that are somewhat close to a 20° grid.

You will also notice that it isn't deep. Deep silver umbrellas don't "focus" or "control" light any better than shallower, but closer to the ideal paraboloid shape silver umbrellas with a very reflective material ("extreme silver" in Paul Buff speak). Please don't buy deep silver umbrellas. They make no sense whatsoever.

Now of course that assumes that one has properly eliminated bare flash tube spill with an umbrella / spill kill reflector if applicable. Given that I have simply never seen a single "umbrella 101" video on Youtube that mentions even once "spill kill" or "umbrella reflector" I'm not surprised to see a lot of people claiming that umbrellas spill light everywhere, and in fact 90% of the time when I see an umbrella fitted to a strobe, there isn't any reflector.

The worst thing is that even umbrella brands are not educating their customers properly. That's how Westcott markets their new line of deep silver umbrellas, and it's rubbish, misleading marketing :



There are plenty of very valid reasons to favour softboxes over umbrellas, but light spill isn't one of them. The Cactus above, for example, just like all silver umbrellas except Paul Buff's soft silver ones, produces multiple shadows which may be very, very ugly in some pictures. That's something that can be avoided with a softbox with grid or a soft silver PLM.



Feb 21, 2017 at 05:37 AM
suhsin
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p.1 #8 · Question regarding an umbrella softbox


Very detailed description. Very much appreciated.

Steve Wylie wrote:
Basically, the difference between a soft box and an umbrella is the degree of control over light spill that a soft box gives you. An umbrella spills light all over the place, due to it's shape, whether it's a shoot-through umbrella or a reflective umbrella. A rectangular (or an octagonal) soft box, particularly those with sides that extend beyond the face of the box, limits that spread. Another contributing factor to the quality of light in either a soft box or an umbrella is the color of the fabric in the interior of the modifier. A silver material will
...Show more



Feb 21, 2017 at 09:20 AM
Steve Wylie
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p.1 #9 · Question regarding an umbrella softbox


Great post but this paragraph is a bit out of date since at least 2009

Thanks for providing these examples. I spent quite a long time looking at these and reading your post. I have no reason to doubt anything you said, but I'm frankly amazed at the first and last examples you showed, especially the Broncolor deep octa. Can you elaborate on how that deep octa spreads light in that fashion? Is it a diffuser that extends to the very face of the box? It just seems counter-intuitive to get a spread like that. And in looking at the rest of the examples, it appears to me that the most important variable would be the presence, or lack thereof, of a frontal diffuser. Is that correct?



Feb 21, 2017 at 11:40 AM
MayaTlab
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p.1 #10 · Question regarding an umbrella softbox


EDIT : you're absolutely right to ask for more details about how that little not superbly rigorous test of mine was done - one should always be as explicit as possible regarding the methodology .

The Broncolor deep octa's front diffuser is recessed, but only slightly (5cms). Broncolor sells a third diffuser that's flush with the octa's front (just like on Rotalux boxes). There isn't much difference between the two in terms of light spread (I use both interchangeably, depending on practicalities, and sometimes all three at the same time to get a very even front illumination).
However, you are absolutely correct that if the front diffusers are removed and only the inner diffuser is used (which is significantly further inside), the beam angle is a little narrower (or at least, that less light falls on the sides, as the illumination on the number "2087" tends to demonstrate) :



But of course the character of the light is quite different as well (and the reflections will be as ugly as with some umbrellas).
One great thing about softboxes is that you will be able to quickly alter the light by changing diffusion panels, adding or removing a grid, all of that without changing the modifier.

A grid will of course produce a tighter beam angle, but that depends on the grid's specifications and design - and I rarely use grids with my softboxes so I didn't take it when I made these tests.

The Broncolor's octa has nearly the exact same shape as the Rotalux, but its silver and white materials are different. I don't think that there is going to be a massive difference in terms of results, but there could be. My guess is that if the Rotalux has very weak diffusion, it may send light in a slightly more directional way, but then illumination evenness when looking into the modifier would be rubbish, so I doubt it's that weak.

Remember that the walls are white, that may emphasise the results, visually speaking. In real conditions the octa may be quite close to the subject, and feathered, and may not send as much light on the background or elsewhere.

The presence of a front diffuser has an influence only on light sources that have a narrower beam angle to start with. The white umbrella, for example, won't benefit, at least in terms of beam angle, from a diffuser, as white scatters light in all directions already. I believe that there may be differences depending on the diffusion strength of the diffuser. Here I used Paul Buff's PLM front diffuser and despite the difference in beam angle between the soft silver PLM and the Cactus when they are naked, it evens out the difference :



A front diffuser will also significantly alter light quality with modifiers that have uneven illumination when naked (when looking into the modifier). For example, naked, all silver umbrellas bar the PLM soft silver will have an uneven illumination pattern that may sometimes look like a bicycle wheel and that will create multiple shadows. A front diffuser will diminish this uneven illumination, but not entirely.

The Cactus's small, narrow beam of light is what everyone can get when they have the possibility to properly kill bare flash tube spill and use pseudo-parabolic silver umbrellas with a highly directional, reflective material. And when they are designed and manufactured by people who know what they are doing (i.e., Paul Buff, and no one else), it's even tighter. Too bad, because of a lack of sales, Paul Buff has stopped selling 5 out of their 6 silver PLM references. That's what you get when 100% of "educational" videos on Youtube about umbrellas stay mute about spill kill reflectors, and umbrella brands themselves (Profoto, Interfit, Westcott) tell customers a lot of BS about deep silver umbrellas.

Elinchrom has just rejoined the deep umbrella craze BTW with 7mm models.



Feb 21, 2017 at 12:35 PM
Steve Wylie
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p.1 #11 · Question regarding an umbrella softbox


Thanks very much for elaborating. This is very interesting info.




Feb 21, 2017 at 01:33 PM





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