Looking for some feedback from the forum members on the Leica Tri-Elmar 16-18-21 specifically regarding its use on the A7R2. I had posted this on another forum but likely given the audience should have posted it here.
know there are a number of forum members that use this lens on the A7X bodies and I'm hoping you can step in and provide some feedback on the this lens.
I currently have the Zeiss Distagon 15 2.8 ZE and the Distagon 21 ZE as my primary landscape lenses both are exceptional in terms of image quality however I'm now looking at reducing some of the weight/bulk of my travel kit and the WATE is a very tempting solution for me.
The WATE is obviously a bit slower than the ZEs but honestly the typical shooting apertures that I use the slower WATE wouldn't typically be an issue. I'm more concerned with the overall IQ of the WATE when paired with the A7R2 and how it compares to the Distagons.
Looking for some feedback from the forum members on the Leica Tri-Elmar 16-18-21 specifically regarding its use on the A7R2. I had posted this on another forum but likely given the audience should have posted it here.
know there are a number of forum members that use this lens on the A7X bodies and I'm hoping you can step in and provide some feedback on the this lens.
I currently have the Zeiss Distagon 15 2.8 ZE and the Distagon 21 ZE as my primary landscape lenses both are exceptional in terms of image quality however I'm now looking at reducing some of the weight/bulk of my travel kit and the WATE is a very tempting solution for me.
The WATE is obviously a bit slower than the ZEs but honestly the typical shooting apertures that I use the slower WATE wouldn't typically be an issue. I'm more concerned with the overall IQ of the WATE when paired with the A7R2 and how it compares to the Distagons.
It's a very fine lens. Light, compact and great IQ at f/8 across the frame on the A7RII. (Not bad at f/5.6 either)
My only issue with it was a mid-zone resolution dip on the Sony body at infinity distance. it could be a characteristic of the lens that gets amplified by the Sony sensor stack.
It's a nice and small lens. Performance-wise I don't see the difference between it and the 16-35 F4 except at F4 and maybe 5.6 (and a tiny bit at that). It's not as good as the Batis 18mm at 18mm.
I'd happily work with one but the lack of a front filter ring on any lens is a constant source of concern for me. If you need the absolute best performance at 15-16mm, the ZE/ZF Distagon is still the lens to beat (until Zeiss makes a 15mm Loxia, at least).
ZhanMing12 wrote:
It's a nice and small lens. Performance-wise I don't see the difference between it and the 16-35 F4 except at F4 and maybe 5.6 (and a tiny bit at that). It's not as good as the Batis 18mm at 18mm.
I'd happily work with one but the lack of a front filter ring on any lens is a constant source of concern for me. If you need the absolute best performance at 15-16mm, the ZE/ZF Distagon is still the lens to beat (until Zeiss makes a 15mm Loxia, at least).
It is fiddly, but the Leica WATE does accept front filters. You simply screw off the lens hood, screw on the filter adapter and then can attach 67mm filters to the adapter. I have used both a polarizer and a ND filter simultaneously on the WATE. I no longer use one due to liking the output of the Loxia 21 better, but there is no better UWA zoom that one can use on Sony that I know of and certainly none as good that are as compact.
I have the WATE and have used it on my A7r before modifying the camera to a Kolari Modified A7rM V3 as well as after modification. The lens is small, light, and compact and is smaller and lighter than the Loxia 21mm. For adapting the lens, purchase the lens without the finder which saves money and weight.
I will make comment and post some images below. As to the question of the filter threads, Leica makes a special adapter ($99) that replaces the lens hood of the camera that allows the lens to use 67mm filters. I use the adapter with my lens and leave a 67mm B+W XS Pro Digital Nano filter on the adapter. The adapter has openings for usage with the Leica M cameras and the camera rangefinder to lessen rangefinder cutoff. Like others, I have covered the openings with Gaffers Tape. Additionally, I purchased a Leica 67mm pinch lens cap that I use with the lens. I also have a collapsible 67mm lens hood that can be used at 21mm. Wider than 21mm and there is vignetting/cutoff.
I have used the lens at 16mm, 18mm, and 21mm and the lens does perform a bit better with my A7rM V3 than it does with a stock camera. The loss of the corners and quite possibly the edges are better with the modified sensor camera than the stock unit, but it is still quite good on the stock A7r. Focus is critical for best performance and it may require focus to a closer portion of the image for best performance to infinity. I have used the lens even stopped down to f22 and I have been impressed with the performance at f22. I normally use the lens stopped down to f8 or possibly f11 for most of my work for DOF though I will occassionally use it at f5.6 which I believe also is improved with my A7rM V3.
Luvwine wrote:
It is fiddly, but the Leica WATE does accept front filters. You simply screw off the lens hood, screw on the filter adapter and then can attach 67mm filters to the adapter. I have used both a polarizer and a ND filter simultaneously on the WATE. I no longer use one due to liking the output of the Loxia 21 better, but there is no better UWA zoom that one can use on Sony that I know of and certainly none as good that are as compact.
Yes, that's what I use for my 21mm Summilux when I need NDs. But it's not a good day-to-day solution unless you mod the adapter ring a bit. If you don't cover the window properly dust and flares are both problems.
Again, not a bad lens, but a very expensive and not particularly user-friendly one for what it delivers. I went from the WATE to the 15mm Distagon ZM then to the 16-35 FE, and now use the Voigtlander 15mm III in M-mount. It doesn't perform as well as any of the other lenses but it's cheap, tiny and take 58mm filters
Initially thought of replacing the 21 Distagon with the Loxia 21, the Loxia is a very nice lens and from the samples I've seen likely slightly better than the Distagon 21. The problem then becomes what do I replace the Disitagon 15 with? I still have the Voigtlander 15 V3 however since a mishap with it earlier this year it's now de-centred and likely not worth repairing and I really don't want to go through a series of samples to get a sample that I would be happy with.
I still use the Lee filter system on my 21 Distagon for fall waterfalls as well as Grads up in the mountains but I'm uncertain how the Lee system would work with the filter adapter ring required for the WATE. Anyone have experience with that combination?
MIRANDA1 wrote:
Thanks everyone for your thoughts and samples.
Decisions,decisions decisions !
Initially thought of replacing the 21 Distagon with the Loxia 21, the Loxia is a very nice lens and from the samples I've seen likely slightly better than the Distagon 21. The problem then becomes what do I replace the Disitagon 15 with? I still have the Voigtlander 15 V3 however since a mishap with it earlier this year it's now de-centred and likely not worth repairing and I really don't want to go through a series of samples to get a sample that I would be happy with.
I still use the Lee filter system on my 21 Distagon for fall waterfalls as well as Grads up in the mountains but I'm uncertain how the Lee system would work with the filter adapter ring required for the WATE. Anyone have experience with that combination?
The Lee filter system should work fine with the Leica WATE filter adapter. You would need either the standard 67mm or Wide Angle 67mm Adapter for the Lee 100mm system.
I've had my WATE for 2 1/2 years and have to say it is a worthwhile investment. I tested it against my Zeiss 21 ZE (both adapted on A7r) and at 21mm the Leica had a slight edge on IQ.
I keep thinking I would trade it for a Loxia 21 and CV 15 but I think I would regret it. Additionally I find myself shooting all over the zoom range.
I did purchase the Leica filter holder and from there stepped it up to a 77mm B+W Kaesemann CP but that is usually used for mainly skyless pics, i.e. waterfalls. It really shoots great w/o a CP.
One thing I really like about this lens rendering is its ability to capture micro-contrast sky details that my naked eye does not capture in full. I'm attaching a handheld single frame pic that explains.
The WATE is a superb lens! I originally acquired this lens when there were no small/light options with the A7r. The range of 16-18-21 is great, particularly in a small package but comes at a premium!
There are technically sharper lenses with high micro contrast, but the WATE has the true Leica rendering less micro contrast, but still very sharp. I have made many large prints and combination of the A7r/A7rII sharpness with the WATE produces wonderful shots.
When the Loxia 21 arrived, I sold the WATE and I did regret it at the time. It is a lens that if you like the rendering and feel of the images, it is almost a must have
That said the Loxia 21 is a superb lens, and just different styles of rendering
I had the lens for many years and used in mostly on the Leica M9 and M240 and used it for a while on the A7rII. It is indeed a wonderful lens but in the end (when my Leicas were gone) I sold it to get the loxia 21and CV15 mkIII and still had some money left over. The Loxia is just superb and the CV15 slightly betters the WATE towards the corners. The main issue with the WATE is if you shoot architecture and the moustache distortion that you get that is difficult to correct. If you want small and light with beautiful colours and can afford it it is still a great lens
I want to thank everyone on the board who responded by my thread and provided some valuable insight into this lens and samples aswell, it certainly made my decision much more easier to make.
Anyway I picked up a copy of this lens today from a local photographer, the lens is LNIB condition, honestly doesn't look like it was used at all. In addition to the lens he included the Leica E67 filter holder as well as a custom 77mm filter holder ( sans the cutouts ) that he had custom made by S K Grimes. The larger filter holder will be perfect to use with the Lee system since I already have the 77mm wideangle adapter.
First impressions are, WOW this thing is sooo small and light and balances very well on the A7R2, the aperture clicks are smooth and light, lighter than what I'm used to on the Zeiss ZMs but the overall build is top notch as expected from a Leica lens. The one thing that is going to take some use to is the focus tab, I much prefer proper knurned focus rings on my lenses.
Planning to test it out this weekend and compare it to my 21 and 15 Distagons.
MIRANDA1 wrote:
I want to thank everyone on the board who responded by my thread and provided some valuable insight into this lens and samples aswell, it certainly made my decision much more easier to make.
Anyway I picked up a copy of this lens today from a local photographer, the lens is LNIB condition, honestly doesn't look like it was used at all. In addition to the lens he included the Leica E67 filter holder as well as a custom 77mm filter holder ( sans the cutouts ) that he had custom made by S K Grimes. The larger filter holder will be perfect to use with the Lee system since I already have the 77mm wideangle adapter.
First impressions are, WOW this thing is sooo small and light and balances very well on the A7R2, the aperture clicks are smooth and light, lighter than what I'm used to on the Zeiss ZMs but the overall build is top notch as expected from a Leica lens. The one thing that is going to take some use to is the focus tab, I much prefer proper knurned focus rings on my lenses.
Planning to test it out this weekend and compare it to my 21 and 15 Distagons....Show more →
Congratulations I would also suggest the CV VM-E close focus adapter, as you will find the WATE will almost act as a macro. You will find there is a focus stop which is just a limitation for RF cameras where the cam disengages, and it will focus to closer distances. At first I thought there was an issue with the lens.
charles.K wrote:
Congratulations I would also suggest the CV VM-E close focus adapter, as you will find the WATE will almost act as a macro. You will find there is a focus stop which is just a limitation for RF cameras where the cam disengages, and it will focus to closer distances. At first I thought there was an issue with the lens.
Thanks Charles, I do the the CV VM-E as well as the TAP so I will be testing it with both.
