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Archive 2017 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)

  
 
Lee Saxon
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p.65 #1 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)


freaklikeme wrote:
You also need a mechanism to cock the shutter on V lenses, unless you want to unmount them and cock them with a coin.


Ah of course, yes. I forgot they don't just spring back open like aperture-stop-down. That reminds me that my 501cm needs to be sent in to have that very mechanism repaired haha



Feb 07, 2017 at 06:15 PM
RyanFlynn
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p.65 #2 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)


flash wrote:
If I need an adaptor and an Otus lens, that may or may not have issues in the corners on a larger sensor, why not just get a Pentax 645Z or Leica S. Cost? Because you're throwing away most of the other benefits of a GFX over other MF systems. And it's a big gamble to think a 35mm Otus lens will be better than a native Pentax DA lens on a mini MF sensor.


The obvious answer to "why" is aperture. Besides the one f/2.0 lens down the road, all the Fuji lenses are slow. If you're looking for shallow (or super shallow) depth of field, there's no great option currently. At least, nothing that would be similar to shooting an 80/2.0 on 645, or something like the 105/2.4 on 67 (or any of the Cinelux f/2.0-2.1 options on 67.) If that's not a part of your shooting style, then yeah, I'd agree, probably pointless, or at least not worth the hassle and expense.



Feb 07, 2017 at 06:42 PM
flash
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p.65 #3 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)


RyanFlynn wrote:
The obvious answer to "why" is aperture. Besides the one f/2.0 lens down the road, all the Fuji lenses are slow. If you're looking for shallow (or super shallow) depth of field, there's no great option currently. At least, nothing that would be similar to shooting an 80/2.0 on 645, or something like the 105/2.4 on 67 (or any of the Cinelux f/2.0-2.1 options on 67.) If that's not a part of your shooting style, then yeah, I'd agree, probably pointless, or at least not worth the hassle and expense.


I agree, wholeheartedly.

Of course there will be cases where people can address specific needs. I use Canon TS and macro lenses on both my Leica SL and A7R2 nearly every day. I just think some people are going to buy and adapt an Otus because of how good it is on 35mm and be bloody disappointed when my 25 year old Pentax 645 zoom beats it into submission at f8 at anything other than close distances. Adapting lenses can be useful and fun but it's not without considerable risk as far as IQ is concerned, especially at infinity.

The 100mm f2 S Summicron is possibly one of the best lenses I've ever seen and it's plenty thin on mini MF. Maybe someone needs more than that but it isn't me.

Plus I can knock off a couple of stops of DOF pretty quickly in post.

Gordon



Feb 07, 2017 at 08:32 PM
RyanFlynn
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p.65 #4 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)


Totally. I can't see the Otii beating the native glass in terms of sheer image quality. Seems like it'd just be a specific look.

I think for landscapes, and probably just about everything, medium format glass, and probably the native Fuji glass, will be all people need. The 110/2.0 will probably be a beauty. I'm a sucker for really fast wide and normal FOV lenses, it's just a look I like. The cool thing about all these mirrorless cameras is that there's so many options - almost regardless of what you shoot, there's a bunch of high quality, fun lenses you can use. It's a good time to be a photographer.



Feb 07, 2017 at 08:57 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.65 #5 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)


RyanFlynn wrote:
Totally. I can't see the Otii beating the native glass in terms of sheer image quality. Seems like it'd just be a specific look.

I think for landscapes, and probably just about everything, medium format glass, and probably the native Fuji glass, will be all people need. The 110/2.0 will probably be a beauty. I'm a sucker for really fast wide and normal FOV lenses, it's just a look I like. The cool thing about all these mirrorless cameras is that there's so many options - almost regardless of what you shoot, there's a bunch of high quality, fun lenses you
...Show more

Ryan,
You will be able to get that fast normal look with your Contax 80 f/2. For a 4 X 3 or squarer crop it will look like a 58 f/1.5 on FF 35mm.



Feb 07, 2017 at 10:42 PM
alundeb
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p.65 #6 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)


Just a reminder, for 1:1 aspect ratio we don't need a larger image circle than what all lenses for 35 mm format already have (give 1 mm).

85 mm f/1.4 on 33x33mm square is equivalent to 62 mm f/1.0 on 24x24mm

With adapted fast lenses it is possible to get even shallower DOF than anything we had before. Then it doesn't impress much that the fastest MF lenses can't even match what is possible already in the 35 mm format.



Feb 08, 2017 at 07:37 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.65 #7 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)


alundeb wrote:
Just a reminder, for 1:1 aspect ratio we don't need a larger image circle than what all lenses for 35 mm format already have (give 1 mm).

85 mm f/1.4 on 33x33mm square is equivalent to 62 mm f/1.0 on 24x24mm

With adapted fast lenses it is possible to get even shallower DOF than anything we had before. Then it doesn't impress much that the fastest MF lenses can't even match what is possible already in the 35 mm format.


I am sure the square crop will work for many lenses, but you will need a little more than 3mm more in the image circle. FF 35MM needs a image circle of 43.2mm. A square crop of 33 X 33 mm needs a 46.6mm image circle, so I am not sure that will work with all lenses. We will just have to test and see as adaptors become available.



Feb 08, 2017 at 07:46 AM
alundeb
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p.65 #8 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)


Steve Spencer wrote:
I am sure the square crop will work for many lenses, but you will need a little more than 3mm more in the image circle. FF 35MM needs a image circle of 43.2mm. A square crop of 33 X 33 mm needs a 46.6mm image circle, so I am not sure that will work with all lenses. We will just have to test and see as adaptors become available.


I have tried many lenses using a shift adapter on the A7r and found that all of them have those extra few millimeters without hard vignetting, and with good sharpness. You can extrapolate MTF curves and vignetting curves from image height 21.6 to 23.3 mm and have a pretty accurate prediction of the performance.

The reason I haven't published my results is that few lenses will cover the whole 44x33 mm satisfactory over all apertures and focal lengths. And that is where such results would be interesting.



Feb 08, 2017 at 08:09 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.65 #9 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)


alundeb wrote:
I have tried many lenses using a shift adapter on the A7r and found that all of them have those extra few millimeters without hard vignetting, and with good sharpness. You can extrapolate MTF curves and vignetting curves from image height 21.6 to 23.3 mm and have a pretty accurate prediction of the performance.

The reason I haven't published my results is that few lenses will cover the whole 44x33 mm satisfactory over all apertures and focal lengths. And that is where such results would be interesting.


Interesting. So most lenses have the 3.5 extra mm to the image circle but less than the 12mm or so needed to fully cover the sensor. That sounds about right with a few exceptions no doubt. Longer lenses are probably likely to have a larger image circle (and this is what Rich, naturephoto1, found with Leica R lenses, and macro lenses at close distances are also likely to have a larger image circle at least for macro work. I am especially interested in the Zeiss Milvus/ZF/ZE 135 f/2 APO particularly at close focus distances. You have any idea if it will cover the whole 55mm image circle?



Feb 08, 2017 at 08:45 AM
alundeb
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p.65 #10 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)


Steve Spencer wrote:
Interesting. So most lenses have the 3.5 extra mm to the image circle but less than the 12mm or so needed to fully cover the sensor. That sounds about right with a few exceptions no doubt. Longer lenses are probably likely to have a larger image circle (and this is what Rich, naturephoto1, found with Leica R lenses, and macro lenses at close distances are also likely to have a larger image circle at least for macro work. I am especially interested in the Zeiss Milvus/ZF/ZE 135 f/2 APO particularly at close focus distances. You have any idea if
...Show more

With unlimited funds, I would have the 135 APO-sonnar at hand, but unfortunately not. I have a good guess though. It will not be a yes or no answer, but about how much vignetting you will accept.



Feb 08, 2017 at 08:58 AM
Lee Saxon
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p.65 #11 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)


Also, a 36x24 crop of the GFX is 30.5mp which is more than a significant chunk of current FF35 cameras and quite respectable, so even if some of your lenses literally don't offer an ounce more than 43.27mm IC...


Feb 08, 2017 at 09:20 AM
alundeb
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p.65 #12 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)


BTW, Canon and Sigma teleconverters cover the full 55 mm Image circle.



Feb 08, 2017 at 09:28 AM
Audii-Dudii
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Steve Spencer wrote:
Gordon, I don't think any of the Otus lenses will end up being that good on the camera. I am not counting on any of my 35mm lenses for use with it, but I have a bit of hope for some of the longer lenses.


FYI, it's already known that the 28 mm and 55 mm Otus lenses have smallish image circles that allow for very limited movements when focused at infinity and used with 35 mm format sensors ... typically on the order of 3-4 mm for the 28 mm and a bit more for the 55 mm. The 85 mm, however, has a noticeably larger image circle and should come very close to covering the GFX sensor, so there is that, but the 28 mm and 55 mm versions will almost certainly fall well short...

I am particularly interested in the Milvus 135 f/2 APO and putting it on a bellows for Macro type work. It should have a bigger image circle at closer distances and it really is excellent all the way to the corners on FF 35mm which will get you almost to the edge on mini MF. So, I won't count on it, but I will hope.

Last summer, I converted a friend's ZF 135/f2 from a Nikon mount to a Pentax mount, so he could use it on his K-1, by installing a Leitax replacement mount. Now that I am able to attach Nikon-mount lenses to my modified Toyo VX23d "FrankenKamera" digital view camera, which uses an A7R body as a digital back, I am planning to borrow it back from him, reconvert it back to its original Nikon mount (it shouldn't take more than 15 minutes!), and see just how large its image circle actually is ... we shall see. (Although I'm a wide-angle guy, I must say the handful of quick test photos I took of my dog, Abby -- sorry, I don't have a cat! -- with it mounted on my A7R were spectacular and I very much enjoyed my weekend with it.)

The other adapting that I am planning is large format digital lenses designed for digital backs. Those too ought to be spectacular on the Fuji and they are made to work on a bellows. It will make nice tilt and shift possible as well.

Based upon the information presently available, IMO, it's still too early to tell how happily the GFX will work with view camera lenses of both traditional film and modern digital design.

The fact that Fuji will be offering a view camera adapter for it is a very positive sign, to be sure, but as the owner of a 33x44 digital back (Phase One P30+) who adapted it to work on my Toyo 23G view camera and was mostly disappointed with the results, I am not especially optimistic.

(For the record, I did ultimately achieve some limited success using it with a Mamiya 50 mm/f4 PC lens that I adapted to work on my Contax 645 body, along with a few other adapted, retrofocus MF lenses, but working with the P30+ back for the type of long-exposure photography I do, especially here in the heat of the Arizona summer, proved problematic and after a while, I abandoned it to return to smaller-format sensors.)

Ditto for using the GFX with long exposures. Its small body at least raises the potential for it to have heat dissipation issues and the noise that goes along with them (which was my major issue with the P30+, because the ambient temps where I live can still be over 100 degrees at midnight during the summer months, and the resulting noise wreaked all sorts of havoc with my photos.) Mind you, this is also a problem with my A7R and RX1s, too. In fact, I now resort to chilling them in the refrigerator to just above the Dew Point before I head out for the evening and store them in doubled-up cooler bags with ice packs while I am out, to keep them as cool as possible for as long as possible. I also have a pair of RX1s and use one for setting up photos, then swap to the other one for taking them, so as to keep it out of the heat as much as possible. Don't laugh ... although all of this really is a major PITA, it really does work!

So as tempted as I am to order a GFX myself, I have decided to take a wait-and-see attitude for now and will let others test the water for me. If the early indications are positive, then I'll likely rent one before I buy one, because even then, my experience has been that my particular needs are very much different than those of most photographers and the only way I can confirm that a given camera or lens will work well for me is to ... well, actually work with it.



Feb 08, 2017 at 10:19 AM
Lee Saxon
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p.65 #14 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)


By the way I don't know if I've mentioned it but I can't actually afford this camera and I am in no way whatsoever too proud to accept donations and charity.


Feb 09, 2017 at 12:42 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.65 #15 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)


Audii-Dudii wrote:
FYI, it's already known that the 28 mm and 55 mm Otus lenses have smallish image circles that allow for very limited movements when focused at infinity and used with 35 mm format sensors ... typically on the order of 3-4 mm for the 28 mm and a bit more for the 55 mm. The 85 mm, however, has a noticeably larger image circle and should come very close to covering the GFX sensor, so there is that, but the 28 mm and 55 mm versions will almost certainly fall well short...

Last summer, I converted a friend's ZF 135/f2
...Show more

I would love to know what you find with the ZF 135 f/2. I do have hopes for that lens. I agree totally that how cameras respond to long exposure and especially in really hot environments is hard to predict. Your example is a good one. One would have thought that the A7rII would have been an advance over the A7r, but you no doubt use the older generation camera because it has less issues with those types of shots. Fortunately for me, long exposures (over 3 or 4 minutes) are not a part of what I do, and I live pretty far north where I don't see those types of ambient temperatures, so I don't have to worry about those issues, but concerns about heat are definitely a potential issue with digital and especially with small bodies.
I'm not too worried about the view camera lens (Rodentstock 100 f/4 HR Digaron S) that I got, but I do think choice of the lens that one uses may matter. I think most of the SK APO digitars and the Rodenstock digarons will work well, but some of the large format film lens may not have enough resolution to work well on a high megapixel sensor.



Feb 09, 2017 at 07:12 AM
naturephoto1
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Steve Spencer wrote:
I would love to know what you find with the ZF 135 f/2. I do have hopes for that lens. I agree totally that how cameras respond to long exposure and especially in really hot environments is hard to predict. Your example is a good one. One would have thought that the A7rII would have been an advance over the A7r, but you no doubt use the older generation camera because it has less issues with those types of shots. Fortunately for me, long exposures (over 3 or 4 minutes) are not a part of what I do, and
...Show more

Hi Steve,

I believe that a large number of the SK and Rodenstock digital lenses should fare well on the sensor. I am finding that they fare well on my Sony A7r which has I believe even smaller pixels. But, consider also, as in the case of MF and LF film cameras, to enlarge something to say 32" X40" or 40" X 50" images there is still something to say for the size of the original image size; that is the images are not enlarged as much as they would be from a FF 35mm original.

Rich



Feb 09, 2017 at 07:20 AM
Steve Spencer
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naturephoto1 wrote:
Hi Steve,

I believe that a large number of the SK and Rodenstock digital lenses should fare well on the sensor. I am finding that they fare well on my Sony A7r which has I believe even smaller pixels. But, consider also, as in the case of MF and LF film cameras, to enlarge something to say 32" X40" or 40" X 50" images there is still something to say for the size of the original image size; that is the images are not enlarged as much as they would be from a FF 35mm original.

Rich


I totally agree Rich. It is important to think about print size and image circle of the lens. Some of the lenses are made specifically for the 33 X 44 mm sensor and have an image circle of 70mm. These lenses tend to have excellent resolution for the new sensor, and even with a single image will make excellent prints up to 36 inches on the long side. If you want larger prints, however, it might be smart to get a lens with a big less resolution, but a larger image circle making it easy to use the shift feature of a view camera to take multiple exposure that you can merge. This strategy ought to get you truly huge prints (60 inches on the long side ought to be possible) with just just taking 2 or three images and using shift. Such large prints are certainly possible with a similar strategy for FF 35mm or even a smaller sensor, but they will be easier with the larger sensor.



Feb 09, 2017 at 07:31 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.65 #18 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)


naturephoto1 wrote:
Hi Steve,

I believe that a large number of the SK and Rodenstock digital lenses should fare well on the sensor. I am finding that they fare well on my Sony A7r which has I believe even smaller pixels. But, consider also, as in the case of MF and LF film cameras, to enlarge something to say 32" X40" or 40" X 50" images there is still something to say for the size of the original image size; that is the images are not enlarged as much as they would be from a FF 35mm original.

Rich


I totally agree Rich. It is important to think about print size and image circle of the lens. Some of the lenses are made specifically for the 33 X 44 mm sensor and have an image circle of 70mm. These lenses tend to have excellent resolution for the new sensor, and even with a single image will make excellent prints up to 36 inches on the long side. If you want larger prints, however, it might be smart to get a lens with a big less resolution, but a larger image circle making it easy to use the shift feature of a view camera to take multiple exposure that you can merge. This strategy ought to get you truly huge prints (60 inches on the long side ought to be possible) with just just taking 2 or three images and using shift. Such large prints are certainly possible with a similar strategy for FF 35mm or even a smaller sensor, but they will be easier with the larger sensor.



Feb 09, 2017 at 07:31 AM
naturephoto1
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Steve Spencer wrote:
I totally agree Rich. It is important to think about print size and image circle of the lens. Some of the lenses are made specifically for the 33 X 44 mm sensor and have an image circle of 70mm. These lenses tend to have excellent resolution for the new sensor, and even with a single image will make excellent prints up to 36 inches on the long side. If you want larger prints, however, it might be smart to get a lens with a big less resolution, but a larger image circle making it easy to use the shift
...Show more

Hi Steve,

I do not have any of the higher resolution Rodenstock digital lenses. They are quite costly. The lower resolution lenes that I have still perform well and the lenses with the larger image circles offer tremendous shift and stitching capablities well beyond the capabilites of my Cambo Actus. As to my SK 90mm f4.5 Apo Digitar, I am not sure of the resolution capabilities. Schneider says the Apo Digitar lenses resolve between 90 and 200 line pairs.

https://www.schneideroptics.com/pdfs/Digitar.pdf

http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/uploads/tx_curoproduktdb/optical_mechanical_dimensions___Centerfilters___angle_of_view__image_circles_07.pdf



Feb 09, 2017 at 07:49 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.65 #20 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)


naturephoto1 wrote:
Hi Steve,

I do not have any of the higher resolution Rodenstock digital lenses. They are quite costly. The lower resolution lenes that I have still perform well and the lenses with the larger image circles offer tremendous shift and stitching capablities well beyond the capabilites of my Cambo Actus. As to my SK 90mm f4.5 Apo Digitar, I am not sure of the resolution capabilities. Schneider says the Apo Digitar lenses resolve between 90 and 200 line pairs.

https://www.schneideroptics.com/pdfs/Digitar.pdf

http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/uploads/tx_curoproduktdb/optical_mechanical_dimensions___Centerfilters___angle_of_view__image_circles_07.pdf


Hi Rich,

Your SK 90 f/4 Digital almost certainly resolves more than well enough for the GFX. It is a very high performing lens. SK used to post the MTF graphs for their lenses, but appear to have taken them down. In any event, it does depend on the lens and one's needs, what will work well and what won't work well. I have seen MTFs from some lenses, that I wouldn't use because I worry they won't resolve well enough. There are large differences (a magnitude of 4 or 5 times the resolution) between some of these lenses, so I do think care in selecting the lenses is in order.



Feb 09, 2017 at 08:04 AM
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