p.46 #1 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Jack Thompson wrote:
I have to wonder whether or not A7RII bodies/lenses will be dumped wholesale when lots of their owners are sure the performance gain by the GFX is worth it, which makes me wonder whether or not making the switch sooner rather than later makes the most sense as to not take a total bath.
I don't think so. For starters the GFX sensor is not that much bigger or higher resolution, which makes me wonder how much better it can possibly be. But assuming it is significantly better, the GFX system will always be less flexible than a 35mm system. For me it's not a question of whether I sell off the A7RII and all of it's lenses to get the GFX, it's whether I get the GFX in addition to the A7RII*.
I'm still waiting for several lenses to be released for the FE mount, but even so the lens selection will be broader than Fuji, plus you have AF adapters for Canon and Sigma lenses etc. And then there's features such as on sensor phase detect AF and IBIS which I've found very effective. And then there's the upgrade cycle - you will not wait nearly as long for new A7 bodies with the latest technology.
Now there is the option of selling off the A7RII system and buying a GFX system for quality and an X system for flexibility as you suggest. But current A7RII owners have already rejected the X system in favour of Sony for the most part (I know there are some on here who have both), so I can't see this happening on mass - I think the resale value of your A7RII is relatively safe (well until Sony drop the next body out of nowhere).
I know if I did that I would lose more resolution than I would gain.
*and the answer to that question is almost certainly "no it's too much money". Though if the body really does come out at $4800 then I will have to take a very hard look!
p.46 #2 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
nehemiahphoto wrote:
I like your hunches Charles...any hunches on an A7 series adding the star tracking feature from the k-1 or native ISO 64 from the D810?
The star tracking feature I doubt, it's a very niche use case. ISO 64 is not a feature of the D810, it's a property of the D810 sensor, which is made by Sony therefore it's highly likely we'll see it in future Sony cameras.
Ian Boys wrote:
I wonder if a GFX and single 63mm paired with an X100T (or F!) might not be a good combination? A small camera for travel and "informal" and a large one for formal.
The thing is I can never predict when I will come across some incredible scene or amazing lighting, So I want my "small camera for travel" to give the highest resolution possible.
p.46 #3 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Matt Grum wrote:
The star tracking feature I doubt, it's a very niche use case. ISO 64 is not a feature of the D810, it's a property of the D810 sensor, which is made by Sony therefore it's highly likely we'll see it in future Sony cameras.
The thing is I can never predict when I will come across some incredible scene or amazing lighting, So I want my "small camera for travel" to give the highest resolution possible.
The D810 is the sum of all it's parts and software, so until Lord Sony puts ISO 64 in your camera, then it's the D810's ISO 64.
Oct 11, 2016 at 09:42 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.46 #4 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Fujimoto wrote:
The D810 is the sum of all it's parts and software, so until Lord Sony puts ISO 64 in your camera, then it's the D810's ISO 64.
I think you missed Matt's point: it should be easy for Sony to implement the ISO 64 of the D810 in a future camera and we can be quite hopeful that they will.
p.46 #5 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
I think I did miss his point, but now you should wonder. Why hasn't Sony implemented ISO 64 or ISO 50 for that matter. Why Nikon on the D810?
Steve Spencer wrote:
I think you missed Matt's point: it should be easy for Sony to implement the ISO 64 of the D810 in a future camera and we can be quite hopeful that they will.
p.46 #6 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Steve Spencer wrote:
I think you missed Matt's point: it should be easy for Sony to implement the ISO 64 of the D810 in a future camera and we can be quite hopeful that they will.
Sony Electronics has to give up features in its own cameras in order to appease Sony semiconductor. Otherwise, Nikon and others have zero differentiation in the marketplace from Sony's own offerings from 3 years ago. This works to the benefit of both companies.
p.46 #7 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Matt Grum wrote:
I don't think so. For starters the GFX sensor is not that much bigger or higher resolution, which makes me wonder how much better it can possibly be. But assuming it is significantly better, the GFX system will always be less flexible than a 35mm system. For me it's not a question of whether I sell off the A7RII and all of it's lenses to get the GFX, it's whether I get the GFX in addition to the A7RII*.
I'm still waiting for several lenses to be released for the FE mount, but even so the lens selection will be broader than Fuji, plus you have AF adapters for Canon and Sigma lenses etc. And then there's features such as on sensor phase detect AF and IBIS which I've found very effective. And then there's the upgrade cycle - you will not wait nearly as long for new A7 bodies with the latest technology.
Now there is the option of selling off the A7RII system and buying a GFX system for quality and an X system for flexibility as you suggest. But current A7RII owners have already rejected the X system in favour of Sony for the most part (I know there are some on here who have both), so I can't see this happening on mass - I think the resale value of your A7RII is relatively safe (well until Sony drop the next body out of nowhere).
I know if I did that I would lose more resolution than I would gain.
*and the answer to that question is almost certainly "no it's too much money". Though if the body really does come out at $4800 then I will have to take a very hard look!...Show more →
I think the increase will be about 2/3 stop in DR and 2/3 stop in Noise. That's about it based on the ratios of the A6000 and A7r. (I did the math earlier which matches up with the 645z on dxomark.) Is that worth a bigger kit? I don't know. I think the question really is how good the lenses are.
Oct 11, 2016 at 01:25 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.46 #8 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Fujimoto wrote:
I think I did miss his point, but now you should wonder. Why hasn't Sony implemented ISO 64 or ISO 50 for that matter. Why Nikon on the D810?
I think the answer is quite simple. They decided the BSI 42mp sensor was a better option than the 36mp sensor with ISO 64. I think that was a good call for the A7R II. I would expect that before too long Sony will replace the A7 II with an A7 III with a sensor that has ISO 64--it won't be the same sensor as the D810 because it will need to have on sensor PDAF, but I expect it to have the excellent low ISO capability.
p.46 #9 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
taran wrote:
Sony Electronics has to give up features in its own cameras in order to appease Sony semiconductor. Otherwise, Nikon and others have zero differentiation in the marketplace from Sony's own offerings from 3 years ago. This works to the benefit of both companies.
Everyone thinks I'm cray.
Earlier in the thread someone noted the D810 sensor was probably a different Exomer generation (4 vs 3). The 5 generation on the A7rII uses the 3 tech in many ways. The next A7r camera will probably be get 6 which is the D810 tech + BSI. So I am guessing close to 15 stops of DR on the A7rIII at ISO64.
p.46 #10 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Fujimoto wrote:
The D810 is the sum of all it's parts and software, so until Lord Sony puts ISO 64 in your camera, then it's the D810's ISO 64.
This isn't a lot of things coming together to make ISO 64 a reality. It has nothing to do with software, Nikon bought a sensor with a base ISO of 64 and put it in their camera.
Fujimoto wrote:
I think I did miss his point, but now you should wonder. Why hasn't Sony implemented ISO 64 or ISO 50 for that matter. Why Nikon on the D810?
They went for increased sensitivity (better low light) instead, by using a BSI sensor, the D810 sensor is a 4th gen chip with increased well depth:
"the fourth generation Exmor technology addresses the NIR sensitivity by introducing deeper pixel wells to help capture these longer wavelengths. Not only do deeper pixel wells provide a higher dynamic range"
Whereas the A7RII / A99II sensor is a 5th generation BSI, which is based off the 3th gen sensor:
"When Sony created their first sensors with the Exmor R technology, they based it on the third generation’s pixel well depth."
Hopefully the next sony A7/A9 will have a 6th gen sensor with deeper wells and increased sensitivity, but there are always competing priorities, they may well optimise for readout speed rather than DR.
p.46 #11 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Matt Grum wrote:
This isn't a lot of things coming together to make ISO 64 a reality. It has nothing to do with software, Nikon bought a sensor with a base ISO of 64 and put it in their camera.
They went for increased sensitivity (better low light) instead, by using a BSI sensor, the D810 sensor is a 4th gen chip with increased well depth:
"the fourth generation Exmor technology addresses the NIR sensitivity by introducing deeper pixel wells to help capture these longer wavelengths. Not only do deeper pixel wells provide a higher dynamic range"
Whereas the A7RII / A99II sensor is a 5th generation BSI, which is based off the 3th gen sensor:
"When Sony created their first sensors with the Exmor R technology, they based it on the third generation’s pixel well depth."
Hopefully the next sony A7/A9 will have a 6th gen sensor with deeper wells and increased sensitivity, but there are always competing priorities, they may well optimise for readout speed rather than DR....Show more →
I did not say ISO 64 was a sum of hardware and software. I said the D810 is a sum of of it's parts and software. Until then, ISO 64 is a feature only available on the D810 and not any Sony camera.
p.46 #12 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Fujimoto wrote:
I did not say ISO 64 was a sum of hardware and software. I said the D810 is a sum of of it's parts and software. Until then, ISO 64 is a feature only available on the D810 and not any Sony camera.
p.46 #15 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Fujimoto wrote:
I did not say ISO 64 was a sum of hardware and software. I said the D810 is a sum of of it's parts and software. Until then, ISO 64 is a feature only available on the D810 and not any Sony camera.
Besides the a77, a77II, a99, a99II, a7R a72, a7S and a7RII, you mean?
As far as I'm aware ISO 64 on the D810 is a pull ISO just like on all the Sonys.
EDIT: Appologies. looks like ISO 64 is native on the Nikon and a pull on the Sonys.
p.46 #16 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
I have not seen any other camera using the sensor with those deep wells than the D810. Not the RX1 variants either.
The D810 actually goes to ISO 32 which is pulled from 64. ISO 64 is measured to be 50 at DXO. It has about 1.3 dB higher maximum signal to noise ratio than "the rest", which is what counts.
p.46 #17 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Matt Grum wrote:
The thing is I can never predict when I will come across some incredible scene or amazing lighting, So I want my "small camera for travel" to give the highest resolution possible.
Matt, I'm the same as you. When I travel, I want to bring back images from the amazing places I travel to...many of these images are landscapes which I'd like the option of printing big. Leaving my main landscape outfit ( GFX ) at home because it's too big and bulky just would not fly with me.
My travel setup is a combination of A7R and A6000. I use the A7R when I'm out specifically to shoot photos and the A6000 when photography is secondary like eating out. This combination really works nicely for me and the weight / bulk is very manageable.
p.46 #18 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
chez wrote:
Matt, I'm the same as you. When I travel, I want to bring back images from the amazing places I travel to...many of these images are landscapes which I'd like the option of printing big. Leaving my main landscape outfit ( GFX ) at home because it's too big and bulky just would not fly with me.
My travel setup is a combination of A7R and A6000. I use the A7R when I'm out specifically to shoot photos and the A6000 when photography is secondary like eating out. This combination really works nicely for me and the weight / bulk is very manageable....Show more →
I find the lenses to be the bulky part of traveling with kit. I'm quite happy with the quality I get out of the X system and I don't have to leave lenses at home when I travel and can carry it all onboard the plane with me. Having the right lenses available also affects image quality, it's not just megapixels the way I look at it
p.46 #19 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
rbf_ wrote:
I find the lenses to be the bulky part of traveling with kit. I'm quite happy with the quality I get out of the X system and I don't have to leave lenses at home when I travel and can carry it all onboard the plane with me. Having the right lenses available also affects image quality, it's not just megapixels the way I look at it
With the Loxia and batis lenses, I'm not giving up anything in bulk or image quality.
I just can't see myself in beautiful locations like Iceland with only a crop camera and only 24mpix. That would definitely be a step back for my large prints.
I guess I have to ask why anyone would by a GFX and not take it to all the exciting places in our world...why would you take your crop and leave this great camera at home?
p.46 #20 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
chez wrote:
With the Loxia and batis lenses, I'm not giving up anything in bulk or image quality.
I just can't see myself in beautiful locations like Iceland with only a crop camera and only 24mpix. That would definitely be a step back for my large prints.
I guess I have to ask why anyone would by a GFX and not take it to all the exciting places in our world...why would you take your crop and leave this great camera at home?
Let's stop trying to conflate general travel with photography centered trips like going to Iceland with the specific goal of being there to do 'landscape photography'. My last several trips this were to NYC thrice, Vegas twice and a number of other cities. I wouldn't bring a medium format camera to any of them even if I had it. I'd also prefer my lens kit which is much more flexible than a kit like you refer too. I also don't like E mount much, I don't care what sensor is in a E mount camera. I'm just not interested it doesn't work for me. Please stop trying to 'sell' me it.
