p.39 #1 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Orestis.Ch wrote:
It would be really nice if they had made the mount a bit larger. Just enough to accommodate the largest sensors available in medium format (like the 100mp sensor in PhaseOne XF). Now, since i doubt their lenses will be able to cover a larger circle, they will always be stuck in that size (which is as much larger as GFX is from FF)
That's never been how Fuji's operated, though. First, the PhaseOne XF is considerably larger, so it wouldn't be a small difference. Second, the lenses will all be designed around this sensor. That's one real benefit to a new system: the lenses won't have a compromise in focal length, they'll be designed with this exact sensor in mind. It would be awkward to design to this sensor, then go with the larger one and need to make all new lenses so that the focal ranges made a bit more sense. Think about the annoyance of the lenses with the Canon 1D series when it was APS-H. Everything was just a bit off....
p.39 #2 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
flash wrote:
The mandatory dark frame is also the major reason i don't use my A7R2 or Leica S for landscape photography. It actually really bugs me when it's mandatory rather than optional.
I've got good news for you - it's not mandatory on the A7 series, it's trivially easy to disable. Sony calls it Long Exposure NR. Turn it off, problem solved.
I don't know why it's mandatory on the Leica S. Poor design and/or the legacy of CCDs. Then again, maybe you can disable it there too. :P
p.39 #3 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
arduluth wrote:
I've got good news for you - it's not mandatory on the A7 series, it's trivially easy to disable. Sony calls it Long Exposure NR. Turn it off, problem solved.
I don't know why it's mandatory on the Leica S. Poor design and/or the legacy of CCDs. Then again, maybe you can disable it there too. :P
Yeah, but on the A7r II, if you are going to use the images with exposure times > 15 minutes, LENR is mandatory
The A7r is fine, one of the better FF options for long exposures.
p.39 #4 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
flash wrote:
Does anyone know how Fuji intend to handle long exposures and dark frame subtraction on the miniMF camera? Although it's somewhat bulky, the Pentax 645Z does essentially unlimited exposure times (battery dependant. the longest I've done so far is 22 minutes), it has selectable dark frame subtraction and it has a *native* ISO 50 (it's a pull but Pentax say with no difference in DR??). The Pentax batteries also seem to last several decades on a single charge.
The Fuji is incredibly interesting because of its size/weight and the advantages of an EVF. However I've realised that as much as I like the concept, if long exposures are limited or come with mandatory dark frame subtraction then I'm probably not interested, as those have become features I've really come to depend on. I also wonder how long a mirrorless battery is going to last on that sensor size running all the time for live view. The mandatory dark frame is also the major reason i don't use my A7R2 or Leica S for landscape photography. It actually really bugs me when it's mandatory rather than optional.
What I really need/want is for Pentax to release the two new D zooms they've been promising for a couple of years. Especially the 80-160 replacement. However it's more likely that Fuji will have released every lens on their roadmap before that happens....
Fuji operating software has an option to turn it off. It's called 'long exposure nr' and it's under the IQ tab. They have it on by default. You can also toggle the lcd off and put the evf in eye sensor mode with the 'view mode' button. GFX appears to have this control on the side of the EVF
p.39 #5 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
This Sony sensor is capable of 1 hour exposure times. So things may certainly be diffrent than current Fuji. What we don't know yet is if they will use a dark frame subtraction. On Phase and Credo (leaf) they do, I don't think Hassy does and I'm not sure of Pentax. I tested the Lead Credo sensor when it came out. I only shot a 2 Minute shot under test. None of them have NR controls from memory. I could be wrong though on Hassy and Pentax . Never handled them
p.39 #6 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
alundeb wrote:
Yeah, but on the A7r II, if you are going to use the images with exposure times > 15 minutes, LENR is mandatory
The A7r is fine, one of the better FF options for long exposures.
It's not mandatory, not in the way that flash thought it was. You can take always dark frame yourself. If you've taken a series of frames, it's common and usually sufficient to take a single dark frame at the end of a series.
p.39 #7 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
arduluth wrote:
It's not mandatory, not in the way that flash thought it was. You can take always dark frame yourself. If you've taken a series of frames, it's common and usually sufficient to take a single dark frame at the end of a series.
My point is that the latest generation Sony FF sensor with BSI is much worse than the previous generations for thermal noise. Exposure times of 22 minutes as Flash mentioned, is usable without LENR at all with the A7r. Not so with the A7r II.
Taking one black frame after several exposures is not something I would rely on. A small change in sensor temperature of 4-5 degrees C can quickly offset the noise by 50%
p.39 #8 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
GMPhotography wrote:
This Sony sensor is capable of 1 hour exposure times. So things may certainly be diffrent than current Fuji. What we don't know yet is if they will use a dark frame subtraction. On Phase and Credo (leaf) they do, I don't think Hassy does and I'm not sure of Pentax. I tested the Lead Credo sensor when it came out. I only shot a 2 Minute shot under test. None of them have NR controls from memory. I could be wrong though on Hassy and Pentax . Never handled them
They way the LE NR works in the Fuji software is that it will take a separate exposure after your long exposure that's equivalent in length, so it seems like dark frame subtraction. They have this in all current X bodies I know of so it will most certainly be there in GFX. I forget exactly how long the longest exposure is but 30 mins sounds right, GFX may be different there. I've never had to go over it though
Actually I looked it up for XP2 and it is 60 minutes in bulb mode for XP2/XT2 per manual
p.39 #9 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
alundeb wrote:
My point is that the latest generation Sony FF sensor with BSI is much worse than the previous generations for thermal noise. Exposure times of 22 minutes as Flash mentioned, is usable without LENR at all with the A7r. Not so with the A7r II.
Taking one black frame after several exposures is not something I would rely on. A small change in sensor temperature of 4-5 degrees C can quickly offset the noise by 50%
flash is under the impression that Sony forces LENR, it does not. Whether or not it may make sense to use LENR a manual dark frame(s), or nothing is up to the photographer, which is to say it's optional.
p.39 #10 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Same with Phase the dark frame is the same as whatever long exposure you have done. The good news here is what this sensor is capable of which is 1 hour but we don't know if there will be a limit on it say for 30 minutes. The one big big issue here is heat and ambient temps. You really need to watch the heat buildup or Noise will be a major problem. For like a hour shot that's 2 hours total. So battery is one issue but you need to be in the cold like around 40 degrees or cooler so you don't build up heat. Most I have done myself on a Phase one back is about 35 minutes and it worked fine but that's 70 minutes but it was near freezing so no heat issues. Curious how Fuji will handle all this as this is a change in sensor tech for them.
Admittedly I know very little on Fuji cameras . I did have one awhile back but I got some real cheesecloth type pattern with it doing a wedding and made the dress really bad so I sold it. But that was long ago so I'm sure that has been cleaned up. Most likely a software issue with C1
My biggest worry here is what raw software. I need C1 which I don't think they are going to support this. Than I'm out to be honest.
p.39 #11 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
arduluth wrote:
flash is under the impression that Sony forces LENR, it does not. Whether or not it may make sense to use LENR a manual dark frame(s), or nothing is up to the photographer, which is to say it's optional.
We currently can switch that on and off. I shoot with it off
p.39 #12 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
GMPhotography wrote:
Same with Phase the dark frame is the same as whatever long exposure you have done. The good news here is what this sensor is capable of which is 1 hour but we don't know if there will be a limit on it say for 30 minutes. The one big big issue here is heat and ambient temps. You really need to watch the heat buildup or Noise will be a major problem. For like a hour shot that's 2 hours total. So battery is one issue but you need to be in the cold like around 40 degrees or cooler so you don't build up heat. Most I have done myself on a Phase one back is about 35 minutes and it worked fine but that's 70 minutes but it was near freezing so no heat issues. Curious how Fuji will handle all this as this is a change in sensor tech for them.
Admittedly I know very little on Fuji cameras . I did have one awhile back but I got some real cheesecloth type pattern with it doing a wedding and made the dress really bad so I sold it. But that was long ago so I'm sure that has been cleaned up. Most likely a software issue with C1
My biggest worry here is what raw software. I need C1 which I don't think they are going to support this. Than I'm out to be honest. ...Show more →
Yeah perhaps with the bigger pixels on a much bigger sensor they will up the max exposure time. I know these parameters are chosen based on the hardware performance. I have no idea with C1, it appears they are supporting current X series with a release this week for XT2/XP2 but no idea on GFX. I guess it depends on how they view Fujifilm now as Fuji compete's with Hasselblad in miniMF market now. Hard for me to guess how Phase views these new development's as Fuji was formerly a close partner with Hasselblad...
p.39 #13 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Well certainly going to be interesting to see how this all plays out. Lots of things going on and we are not sure what changes in philosophy on how things should work with a bigger system than they have today. I'm sure they will get it right and have to see how they handle things. I do know they think photographer first and I like that.
p.39 #14 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
The whole Mini Format MF market offering interchangeable lenses is getting crowded now with the following players though:
Leica S
Pentax 645d and 645z
Mamiya 645DF+ (Mamiya/Leaf- Phase)
Phase One itself
Hassleblad X1D-50c
Fujifilm GFX 50S
and this doesn't even take into account other players offering Technical and view cameras and lenses that accept digital backs including Alpa, Cambo, Sinar, Linhof, Arca Swiss, Silvestri, Horseman, Toyo, etc.
That is even more players than for FF 35mm which are:
Canon various models
Nikon various models
Sony A7 series and Alpha a99 II
Pentax K-1
p.39 #15 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Pretty crowded. Btw Phase One owns leaf and mamiya they fall under phase but serve different market segments. Funny all using the same Sony sensor except Leica S . Sony needs to enter this market. It's a bigger market than some give it credit for and it's going to grow more with the new Fuji and Hassy. All good for the industry.
p.39 #16 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
GMPhotography wrote:
Pretty crowded. Btw Phase One owns leaf and mamiya they fall under phase but serve different market segments. Funny all using the same Sony sensor except Leica S . Sony needs to enter this market. It's a bigger market than some give it credit for and it's going to grow more with the new Fuji and Hassy. All good for the industry.
Hi Guy,
Yes I know that Phase One owns Leaf and Mamiya, that is why I put the hyphon after Mamiya/Leaf- Phase in parentases.
p.39 #17 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
arduluth wrote:
flash is under the impression that Sony forces LENR, it does not. Whether or not it may make sense to use LENR a manual dark frame(s), or nothing is up to the photographer, which is to say it's optional.
Apologies. I do know that. It just slipped my mind or I got all excited while typing or I can't type and think at the same time (most likely). I've spent too much time with my SL lately and my Sonys are very neglected.
Heat dissipation might be an issue. The size of the Pentax is probably helping here. With more space they can dedicate more area to heat dispersion. Long exposures are remarkably clean. I do wonder how a smaller body that's more tightly packed will deal with heat.
I'm not too fussed about manual dark frames, although I do occasionally use them. It's more about blending star trails or shooting multiple exposures for exposure blends that I'm interested. Mostly noise isn't an issue for me as it might be for some and I generally keep as low an ISO as possible. I'd be fine with two minutes without LENR but it sure is nice being able to go significantly longer on the 645Z.
The size/performance ratio of the Fuji is so tempting I just want to be sure that I am aware of any of the downsides that may bring before going in. So far heat, LENR and battery life (limiting exposure times) are my main concerns.
p.39 #18 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
naturephoto1 wrote:
The whole Mini Format MF market offering interchangeable lenses is getting crowded now with the following players though:
Leica S
Pentax 645d and 645z
Mamiya 645DF+ (Mamiya/Leaf- Phase)
Phase One itself
Hassleblad X1D-50c
Fujifilm GFX 50S
and this doesn't even take into account other players offering Technical and view cameras and lenses that accept digital backs including Alpa, Cambo, Sinar, Linhof, Arca Swiss, Silvestri, Horseman, Toyo, etc.
That is even more players than for FF 35mm which are:
Canon various models
Nikon various models
Sony A7 series and Alpha a99 II
Pentax K-1
Rich
You forgot Leica has 35mm cameras (SL, M and MM) as well.
p.39 #19 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
GMPhotography wrote:
My biggest worry here is what raw software. I need C1 which I don't think they are going to support this. Than I'm out to be honest.
Phase have repeatedly refused to support any medium format cameras other than those they make. Some get by by shooting DNG and exif hacks but there's no profile support.
p.39 #20 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Just saw the Popular Photography video on the GFX. It seems to me it's only the body that's smaller. Lenses look quite similar to the equivalents I have on the 645Z. The 120 looks bigger than the FA Pentax (which is superb). The FA75 looks smaller than the Fuji 65mm. The 25-50 equiv Fuji looks about the same as the 45-85 (35-70) that Pentax makes. Not totally unexpected. Lenses are ruled by how big they need to be for the sensor but these don't look like there's going to be any significant *system* weight differences between the Fuji and Pentax. The Pentax body is definitely twice the size and weight but in the scheme of a 6kg kit 700 grams isn't that much.
OTOH the Pentax 28-45 is HUGE (and superb) and Fuji will make an ultra wide for the Fuji. Plus that swivel VF looks pretty sweet.
