p.35 #1 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Fred Miranda wrote:
Lots of info on that link. Thank you!
At least we know that currently the prototype does not have EFCS but it's likely to be included in the final production.
I hope it does because it's a crucial feature IMO.
Are you worried about shutter shock or does the EFCS offer some advantage?
p.35 #3 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Just wondering, the Hasselblad has lenses with leaf shutters, if I understood correctly. Looks like a huge advantage to me, and also seems to make the body smaller. The lenses will be more expensive, but if you're considering a system like this money should not be a big thing anyway.
I would love to have a x-pro2 with leaf shutter lenses ... :-) Like a X100
p.35 #4 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
johnctharp wrote:
EFCS seems to lose DR on Sony sensors, with the advantage of no shutter shock, should that actually be an issue.
It's the fully electronic shutter that reduces DR as the sensor readout is sped up, increasing noise slightly. With EFCS the physical second curtain allows plenty of time to read the sensor hence there is no noise/DR penalty for using EFCS.
p.35 #5 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Fred Miranda wrote:
At least we know that currently the prototype does not have EFCS but it's likely to be included in the final production.
I hope it does because it's a crucial feature IMO.
I think it does. The frame grab you posted shows the third option- MS +ES.
p.35 #7 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
johnctharp wrote:
EFCS seems to lose DR on Sony sensors, with the advantage of no shutter shock, should that actually be an issue.
Always nice to have the option, I guess!
There is no DR loss with EFCS. The issue is with 'silent shutter' (fullly electronic first and second curtain)
However, with shutter speeds above 1/1000s, EFCS 'on' could cause banding and rendering issues with some lenses at wide open apertures.
This ill-effect is more noticeable after 1/4000s which is Fuji's max SS.
p.35 #8 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
MS+ES doesn't mean electronic first curtain on Fuji cameras. It means it will use the mechanical shutter below 1/4000s (or 1/8000s on cameras like the X-Pro 2 and X-T2), and will go to electronic shutter once the shutter speed goes faster (since Fuji's E-shutter can go as short as 1/32,000s). It's nice for shooting in bright sun with fast lenses.
p.35 #9 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Lee Saxon wrote:
He claims these pixels are large enough that they didn't feel whatever performance boosts they get from X-Trans on the little sensors were not needed and so they opted to simplify the camera's processing pipeline. I'm not sure that makes a whole ton of sense to me.
They didn't carry the X-trans CFA over to the new GFX because it doesn't really work in practice - the benefits are slim and outweighed by the artifiacts than can occur and the difficulty in working with industry standard software. I don't think people would put up with it, given how much they're asking for these cameras!
Fuji have a long history of creating sensors which are different for the sake of being different, starting with the "SuperCCD" with hexagonal pixels, offering some theoretical resolution advantage that really just generated soft 6MP images from a 3MP sensor.
The fact the camera is larger than full frame and mirrorless makes it different enough - their only competitor is Hasselblad, and they ought to be able to undercut them on price whilst offering a wider selection of lenses (Fuji are a much bigger company).
p.35 #10 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Amrit wrote:
Just wondering, the Hasselblad has lenses with leaf shutters, if I understood correctly. Looks like a huge advantage to me, and also seems to make the body smaller. The lenses will be more expensive, but if you're considering a system like this money should not be a big thing anyway.
I would love to have a x-pro2 with leaf shutter lenses ... :-) Like a X100
Yes, but the Hassy doesn't have a shutter at all. So no adapting of lenses.
p.35 #11 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Fred Miranda wrote:
There is no DR loss with EFCS. The issue is with 'silent shutter' (fullly electronic first and second curtain)
However, with shutter speeds above 1/1000s, EFCS 'on' could cause banding and rendering issues with some lenses at wide open apertures.
This ill-effect is more noticeable after 1/4000s which is Fuji's max SS.
The banding issue is more likely to affect photographs in which the lighting cycles and/or the subject is moving a lot.
On the other hand, it works really well in many situations where you want slightly less vibration and/or virtually silent camera operation. I recently used by XPro2 to photograph an event where silence was important, and I don't think anyone even knew that I was photographing.
Matt Grum wrote:
They didn't carry the X-trans CFA over to the new GFX because it doesn't really work in practice - the benefits are slim and outweighed by the artifiacts than can occur and the difficulty in working with industry standard software.
I agree with their choice to not use x-trans. While I don't see artifacts in my photographs — even though there may have been some issues with very early raw converters — I also am not convinced that the benefits are significant or even visible. Plus, other AA-filtering-free systems have been working with little or no aliasing issues.
p.35 #12 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
gdanmitchell wrote:
Note: I'm not dissing the camera, just trying to get an objective idea of which hopes and claims are correct and also of which may be somewhat less realistic or useful.
For example, regarding the use of FF-oriented TS lenses, while they might give coverage of the larger (by nearly twice as much) 33 x 44 frame, they would not likely be usable across the full range of their movements. I have no doubt that there might be some photographers interested in such an arrangement (and more power to them!) but I am pretty sure that the number would be a lot less than, say, those who would be interested in TS lenses that do provide full movement range — and that this especially likely to be true among the kinds of photographers who would spend nearly $10k for such a camera. ...Show more →
I don't disagree with what you've written, but I think the Canon 17mm TS-E is a special case, as Fuji may never make a 17mm at all (none of Hasselblad, Phase, Pentax, Lecia have one) let alone one that supports some degree of movement.
Also the Canon TS-E lenses are fairly cost effective as fas as MF glass goes - even the L ones.
p.35 #13 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
curious80 wrote:
Fuji is just buying a sensor from Sony like many other companies do. This is not a combined engineering effort and there is no reason whatsoever to think that Sony has any say or involvement in Fuji firmware. Also focus peaking doesn't depend on any specific support from the sensor. Sony has no role to play in the quality of Fuji's focus peaking algorithms.
I think you are incorrect. The most important part of the camera, and the most expensive component, is produced by Sony. Features that Fuji would like to incorporate MUST first be made available by Sony. In this case, no one on earth would request this chip unless Sony was selling it for dirt cheap. NO 4k, no full res jpgs (I'm guessing, but i don't know), not full medium format size, no x-trans (which Fuji pimps as a premium thing, but now its left out).
Quite frankly, Sony has duped Fuji again by buying a digital format/size that was never popular in the film era. They probably had leftovers from the pentax 645z fab, and they were sitting on the shelf for the last three years while Sony debated whether or not to create a mirrorless pseudo MF category.
NOTHING about the Fuji mirrorless camera was Fuji's idea, and they aren't allowed to have features expressly better than Sony's own offerings. They have, like hasselblad, sold out to become a "body mod" of Sony sensors, once they reach a certain price point three years after Sony has debuted them in the camera companies willing to pay a premium.
p.35 #14 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Fred Miranda wrote:
That's a great feature I wish Sony offered as well. With fast lenses, bokeh gets harsher when shooting wide open at high shutter speeds. (especially above 1/4000s)
I noticed ES, MS and MS + ES options for the Fufi 50S prototype.
Isn't "ES" the same as EFCS?
For ES alone, it would have to be EFCS and ESCS. For MS + ES, I guess it would depend on how it's phased, either ES first, or second.
p.35 #16 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
I'm not familiar with Fuji cameras but from what I read, I believe Fuji's "ES" (Electronic Shutter) is the same as Sony's "Silent Shutter", where shutter is entirely electronic. (No "first" or "second" curtain shutter)
Perhaps the new GFX 50S will include an electronic first curtain shutter (EFCS) option and that would be ideal as "ES" can cause image degradation in certain lighting conditions, shutter speed settings are could also affect minimum ISO. (Base ISO becomes ISO 200 as shown on the picture posted previously)
p.35 #17 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Jman13 wrote:
MS+ES doesn't mean electronic first curtain on Fuji cameras. It means it will use the mechanical shutter below 1/4000s (or 1/8000s on cameras like the X-Pro 2 and X-T2), and will go to electronic shutter once the shutter speed goes faster (since Fuji's E-shutter can go as short as 1/32,000s). It's nice for shooting in bright sun with fast lenses.
That what I had postulated a page or two ago - glad it's the case. I love choices that give you the best of both worlds.
Wouldn't mind something similar for whether or not to use EFCS - use EFCS (On), use mechanical shutter no EFCS (Off), if the shutter is faster than 1/1000 don't use EFCS but use it for everything slower than that (On+Off). Beats switching EFCS on and off depending on the light you're working with.
p.35 #18 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Personally, I turned the EFCS off on my Sonys. I kept getting inconsistent exposures on panos over 1/1000, and once I adjusted my timing for quick single shots, there really hasn't been a downside. I guess we'll see how it goes with the GFX, but I'm doubtful we'll see shutter shock issues regardless of how you use the shutter. I'd bet quite a bit that the a7r's problems were created by the little cage Sony built around the sensor and shutter assembly to support the mount. I'm hopeful, perhaps foolishly so, that Fuji won't make the same or a like mistake with this camera.
p.35 #19 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
taran wrote:
I think you are incorrect. The most important part of the camera, and the most expensive component, is produced by Sony. Features that Fuji would like to incorporate MUST first be made available by Sony.
Your conspiracy theories are pretty far fetched. Firstly and most importantly the group that produces sensors is a completely different, much larger and more importantly much more profitable arm of the company that the division that produces Alpha branded cameras.
The sensor division is only interested in selling as many sensors as possible and I can't see why they would jeopardise that in an attempt to protect the camera division from a product they aren't really competing with.
taran wrote:
no full res jpgs
What?
taran wrote:
Quite frankly, Sony has duped Fuji again by buying a digital format/size that was never popular in the film era. They probably had leftovers from the pentax 645z fab, and they were sitting on the shelf for the last three years while Sony debated whether or not to create a mirrorless pseudo MF category.
Sony hasn't "duped" anybody, they are simply offering a product at a very competitive price which Fuji have decided to buy. These are not "leftover" sensors - Sony have a clear goal to increase the market for MF sensors in order to get the unit cost down (which in turn increases the market etc.), that's why we're suddenly seeing a lot of cameras/backs using the new 44x33mm sensor.
That's also the reason for the sensor size, any bigger and it wouldn't sell in large enough numbers to make it worthwhile for Sony.
taran wrote:
NOTHING about the Fuji mirrorless camera was Fuji's idea, and they aren't allowed to have features not expressly better than Sony's own offerings.
This is just nonsense. Where is Sony's medium format offering?
p.35 #20 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
freaklikeme wrote:
I'd bet quite a bit that the a7r's problems were created by the little cage Sony built around the sensor and shutter assembly to support the mount. I'm hopeful, perhaps foolishly so, that Fuji won't make the same or a like mistake with this camera.
Both Sony and Fuji are companies that do both amazing things and unfortunate things with their cameras. I am hoping for the best of both worlds here, and the standard Bayer CFA and the efforts on minimizing shutter shock is two steps in the right direction for me. In any case I won't be an early adopter.
I have ordered a Fotodiox shift adapter, and will start investigating the coverage of my EF mount compatible lenses. I will do this with my A7r, which rotated and shifted +/- 10 mm will capture 44x36 mm.
