p.6 #2 · Canon 5D4 dynamic range analyzed from RAWs
^^^
I'm expecting crickets... ;-)
(And, to be honest, I sure as heck would not encourage one of those folks using the formerly-highest-DR cameras to switch back just because of this change. I've been pretty consistent about that.)
Or perhaps they'll all come back when Canon introduces its mirrorless bodies?
Nah. There will be something else to complain about. :-)
(And, to be honest, I sure as heck would not encourage one of those folks using the formerly-highest-DR cameras to switch back just because of this change. I've been pretty consistent about that.)
Carry on...
Dan
I nerver switched, but certainly thought about it at times. Decided to hold out for the 5DIV, and I'm very glad I did. No, the sensor may not be "class leading," but it appears to be very good indeed and, IMO, a big step in the right direction.
As I've previously posted elsewhere, I preordered my copy as soon as preorders became available.
p.6 #4 · Canon 5D4 dynamic range analyzed from RAWs
The 1DXII sensor should have been enough to sway any Canonite on the fence about leaving. I suspect the number of Canonites fleeing for Sony will slow to a trickle now and if the dual raw gets software support for the extra DR, even better news.
p.6 #5 · Canon 5D4 dynamic range analyzed from RAWs
Pixel Perfect wrote:
The 1DXII sensor should have been enough to sway any Canonite on the fence about leaving. I suspect the number of Canonites fleeing for Sony will slow to a trickle now and if the dual raw gets software support for the extra DR, even better news.
I was never convinced the number was much more then a trickle to begin with. As an owner of a 1DX2 I don't find the low ISO DR to be the all encompassing critical spec that many on the forums obsess about. Pushing skin tones will show you that right away.
p.6 #6 · Canon 5D4 dynamic range analyzed from RAWs
Pixel Perfect wrote:
The 1DXII sensor should have been enough to sway any Canonite on the fence about leaving. I suspect the number of Canonites fleeing for Sony will slow to a trickle now and if the dual raw gets software support for the extra DR, even better news.
Well, maybe the 1DXII + the 80D ... and now the 5D4 shows conviction to the direction for Canon. I think the biggest concern for folks was just that they didn't see any "evidence" of the direction that Canon might go, foregoing the other attributes of Canon along the way to a certain regard. For those who found something of favor elsewhere or in the Sony + Canon realm, cool beans. Whether they return to a Canon body or not is of no consequence to those who find the new Canon models to their liking.
I passed on the Sony + Canon up to this point. But, that's not to say that an A99 II (FF + articulating display in E mount and good ergonomics) couldn't pull me into the Sony + Canon tribe. Ideally, Canon will achieve my desire for FF + articulating (6D II) first so I don't have to contend with adapters, etc. But with regard to the same tired old tune about DR ... hopefully the "crickets" will be in regard to no longer being incessantly bombarded about a choice to remain using Canon rather than something else. Although, I suspect it'll just turn into some other "other" given enough time.
Microsoft, Adobe, Canon (Leica, Hassy) ... sometimes folks just like picking at the big guy (or the $$$ guy), always looking for the Achille's Heel. That's not ever gonna change.
The "Joy of Photography ...
I can honestly say that nothing has ever diminished my joy of our beloved craft more than the subject of DR. There has been no single issue or topic that I have felt that a constant barrage of folks were waiting for the next opportunity for ambush the way that DR has been. It has also been the single most contentious topic that I've experienced that has taken its toll on the "Joy of FM", as it has presented such opposition to the spirit of FM's wonderful fellow members to be ever helpful.
I just hope that the hyper-contentiousness attitude of the topic can go by the wayside. This is one time where "crickets" will be most welcome. The camera itself (5D4, 80D, 1DX II) may offer an increase in the "Joy", but imo, the greater potential increase in our joy of our beloved craft will be any reduction, mitigation and (idealistically) the elimination of the contentious attitudes regarding the subject of DR. Sure, there will always be points of debate over minutia, but if I never hear the subject of (Canon doesn't have enough) DR again, it won't hurt my feelings.
p.6 #7 · Canon 5D4 dynamic range analyzed from RAWs
My honest view has never changed ... 99% of my photos already have the DR they need. However, am I looking forward to the 5d4 (which I've preordered for once)? Yes. Because that'll now hit 100%.
It might not for everyone, but it does for me.
This level of Canon still remains the best overall camera on the market for me, having had a look at Nikon and Fuji (Sony mirrorless is a no go for me - single card slot).
But what I'm looking forward to more is the AF improvements. It'll be at least the level of 1dx v1 and that'll be a good win for me!
p.6 #8 · Canon 5D4 dynamic range analyzed from RAWs
ggreene wrote:
I was never convinced the number was much more then a trickle to begin with. As an owner of a 1DX2 I don't find the low ISO DR to be the all encompassing critical spec that many on the forums obsess about. Pushing skin tones will show you that right away.
On one hand, I personally know some folks who switched — some very serious landscape photographers with actual reputations in the photography world. I'm thinking of three in particular, and there were others. They liked the DR and the small size and low noise. Given who they are (at least some of them) I was surprised, and I have to take them very seriously. (Unlike some, however, they spend their time making photographs rather than brand proselytizing.)
On the other hand, on a recent 5-week stint of overseas travel I decided to keep a sort of informal eye out for who was using what in the way of cameras. Mostly I saw a ton of people using smart phones. I saw a lot of Canon and Nikon DSLRs. They ranged from a ton of Rebel style bodies up through 5D-series cameras — a fair number of which were (a bit to my surprise, since they seem heavy for travel) equipped with large, red-ring zooms. I saw a few — more than I expected – small point and shoot cameras. I saw a small number of mirrorless cameras. (That's what I was shooting.) Although they were probably there I did not see a single Sony A7r or A7rII.
The Sony cameras are good cameras and they offer some very compelling features to a number of photographers and some good photographers have gone that route and do great work with the gear. But, despite what we might hear in camera forums, they are not exactly "blowing out of the water" the existing mix of cameras.
(For my own part, I almost always do travel with small mirrorless system. It isn't Sony but it could be. And I do believe that someday — a time we have not yet reached — there is a very, very good chance that improved mirrorless systems will increasingly supplant DSLRs.)
The whole DR thing, while real, has been absurdly overblown. I said that when Canon was "behind" and I'll continue to say it if Canon ends up 2 stops "ahead."
p.6 #9 · Canon 5D4 dynamic range analyzed from RAWs
ggreene wrote:
As an owner of a 1DX2 I don't find the low ISO DR to be the all encompassing critical spec that many on the forums obsess about. Pushing skin tones will show you that right away.
Can you elaborate on that? What software and method do you use for the push?
Skin tones are well preserved up to 4 stops push here and not bad at 6 either:
p.6 #10 · Canon 5D4 dynamic range analyzed from RAWs
RustyBug wrote:
Don't hold your breath ... suddenly, it'll be "not that important", or still not "class leading", or some other, "other".
Isn't this "not important" thing we heard over the last 5 years from the Canon folk...I'm sure I can dig this up somewhere. I believe Rusty even YOU were quite vocal on this matter. Funny how it's not important when you don't have it yet turns really relevant when you have it. Funny how things turn around over time. :-)
p.6 #11 · Canon 5D4 dynamic range analyzed from RAWs
In three weeks in Canada, taking smart phones out of the equation most people using real cameras were using DSLR's, mostly entry level or mid range. A few mostly Asian people were using some serious kit, D810, D4, 5D3, 1DX. I saw a few mirrorless, but didn't recognise any as Sony A7R. I was the only person I came across using a BWL even in wildlife hotzones in the Rockies, and people were asking me if they could look through the 500 f/4. I saw a few 70-200, 100-400 and 70-300L, one 400 f/5.6. Otherwise mostly kit lenses like 18-55. The market that seems totally decimated is the P&S, I only noticed a few.
What surprised me is how many people now use their iPads for photos. Maybe it's the large screen gives them good feedback and easier to share with family.
p.6 #12 · Canon 5D4 dynamic range analyzed from RAWs
ggreene wrote:
I was never convinced the number was much more then a trickle to begin with. As an owner of a 1DX2 I don't find the low ISO DR to be the all encompassing critical spec that many on the forums obsess about. Pushing skin tones will show you that right away.
Sony took a fairly large chunk of the market...where did these photographers come from?
p.6 #13 · Canon 5D4 dynamic range analyzed from RAWs
Pixel Perfect wrote:
What surprised me is how many people now use their iPads for photos. Maybe it's the large screen gives them good feedback and easier to share with family.
That one still surprises me, too. They are so awkward — I know, my wife tried it for a while. And while they are really useful for keeping in touch via email and the web while traveling, I'd usually not want to actually carry it around with me while out and about.
By the way, I used a Fujifilm system... and I have to admit that I didn't spot anyone else using that either! (Even my wife has switched back to a Canon SL1...)
p.6 #14 · Canon 5D4 dynamic range analyzed from RAWs
RustyBug wrote:
Don't hold your breath ... suddenly, it'll be "not that important", or still not "class leading", or some other, "other".
I wouldn't mind going back to Canon if they have a decent competitive FF sensor compared to Sony's current sensor technology. Let's assume that this is the case or at least comes very close - I don't want to go back to a DSLR. If Canon makes a FF mirrorless camera with such sensor, yes, then it is certainly interesting! But I don't see this to happen soon in Canon land.
p.6 #15 · Canon 5D4 dynamic range analyzed from RAWs
In all my travels which have been quite extensive over the last few years I have yet to see a single 1D series camera or even a 5d3. Vast majority are using phones and mirrorless systems of various kinds, especially in Asia where it appears the mirrorless systems have been much more accepted. Of the DSLR I've seen, they were all rebel cameras with a kit zoom lens. I was quite surprised seeing quite a few EOS-M cameras in Vietnam.
p.6 #16 · Canon 5D4 dynamic range analyzed from RAWs
chez wrote:
In all my travels which have been quite extensive over the last few years I have yet to see a single 1D series camera or even a 5d3.
Plenty of them around regionally in S.E. Asia - but they are all in the hands of (mostly) working photogs.
The 1 series in particular is seen as a very serious proposition - a pro's camera.
Of course both the 1 series and 5D's are outnumbered hugely by Canon croppers which are cheaper to buy and easier to find a home for, as well as being cheaper to feed.
p.6 #17 · Canon 5D4 dynamic range analyzed from RAWs
I went into our local camera store (well actually electronics store) that sells stuff up to the level of D810/5D3/A7RII and 100-400 lenses (nothing more fancy than that). At first I noticed there display of P&S was almost empty. I was told this is still because of the earthquake and nothing to do with ordering or buying. I asked how the market was doing for the P&S and they said they are still selling a fair amount because people want a zoom that there phone doesn't provide. That made sense to me. Obviously market data shows a huge drop in P&S but until phones give people a zoom option smaller DSLRs and P&S cameras are still on general consumers radars.
In the field I still see very few mirrorless cameras. DSLRs and phones are the two dominant factors. Don't even get me started on iPads as a P&S....I remember my first experience with that in Cusco Peru in 2011....blew my mind
p.6 #18 · Canon 5D4 dynamic range analyzed from RAWs
arbitrage wrote:
I went into our local camera store (well actually electronics store) that sells stuff up to the level of D810/5D3/A7RII and 100-400 lenses (nothing more fancy than that). At first I noticed there display of P&S was almost empty. I was told this is still because of the earthquake and nothing to do with ordering or buying. I asked how the market was doing for the P&S and they said they are still selling a fair amount because people want a zoom that there phone doesn't provide. That made sense to me. Obviously market data shows a huge drop in P&S but until phones give people a zoom option smaller DSLRs and P&S cameras are still on general consumers radars....Show more →
That was the biggest surprise to me. I had sort of thought that P&S was dead and that phones had pretty much completely replaced them. There certainly were a lot of people using phones to make their vacation photos — this was by far the most common type of camera. But there was a significant number of people using the little point and shoot cameras that we all remember from a few years back.
p.6 #19 · Canon 5D4 dynamic range analyzed from RAWs
chez wrote:
In all my travels which have been quite extensive over the last few years I have yet to see a single 1D series camera or even a 5d3. Vast majority are using phones and mirrorless systems of various kinds, especially in Asia where it appears the mirrorless systems have been much more accepted. Of the DSLR I've seen, they were all rebel cameras with a kit zoom lens. I was quite surprised seeing quite a few EOS-M cameras in Vietnam.
I really haven't seen much mirrorless on my travels. Phones and DLSR are everywhere. I will be in Japan and Korea for 3 weeks starting next week and add another data point as it may have changed but I've seen lots of 5D series and D8XX in the wild. I can remember two times seeing a 1 series.
If you want to see 1 series in the wild may I suggest Antarctica. On a boat of 50 people there were about 150 1 series cameras
p.6 #20 · Canon 5D4 dynamic range analyzed from RAWs
gdanmitchell wrote:
That was the biggest surprise to me. I had sort of thought that P&S was dead and that phones had pretty much completely replaced them. There certainly were a lot of people using phones to make their vacation photos — this was by far the most common type of camera. But there was a significant number of people using the little point and shoot cameras that we all remember from a few years back.
Dan
Well in the last 10 years there were a huge amount of p&s cameras sold which are still being used today. My wife still uses a 8 year old Nikon p&s and is very happy with the images she gets. Gear heads on these forums continually upgrade their cameras, but the general public uses them until they die.
