Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              10      
11
       12              17       18       end
  

Archive 2016 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!

  
 
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.11 #1 · p.11 #1 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Holger wrote:
Maybe they changed the text: "Roger's 50/1.4 tangential 50 lp/mm trace falls below the 55/1.8. Hence, our visual shootout seems to agree with Roger's results: aside from a very small region in the center, the 55/1.8 does outperform the 50/1.4 wide open (though we don't see the improvement towards the edges of the 50/1.4 that Roger sees: our 55/1.8 remains ahead peripherally). And, again, we may have tested a copy that under-performs relative to the average, which Roger's data is more representative of."


Yes, they edited the text. Here is what they had this morning when I quoted them:

"To elaborate, below we show our infinity scene overlaid with red and blue rings representing image heights of 4mm and 16mm, respectively: the two points where the 50 lp/mm MTF traces of the two lenses intersect. Between these rings, Roger's 50/1.4 sagittal 50 lp/mm trace falls below the 55/1.8."

I'm glad they corrected the text and changed the word from "sagittal" to "tangential" as that sentence makes more sense now.

However, they really should fix their MTF graphical representation.



Jul 21, 2016 at 01:44 AM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.11 #2 · p.11 #2 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Update: I just checked and they did correct the MTF graphical representation as well (see below image). Perhaps someone read my post and contacted them. I'm glad it's fixed now as what they had before was very confusing.

I think what they mean by this representation is that everything between the red and black lines would show higher resolution (50lp/mm frequency) for the 55/1.8 when compared to the 50/1.4. However, that's only true for the off-axis tangential line...Even with the current review fixes, actual images would not show what they are trying to describe as their analysis is completely ignoring the MTF sagittal measurement. Perhaps they are trying to find a reason why their test results deviates from Roger's optical bench test.

I really shouldn't be getting involved on this...I was just trying to clarify things as before their edits, the review was confusing to me. At this point I only care how the lens renders as sharpness won't be its weakness.







Jul 21, 2016 at 01:47 AM
Lucinda
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #3 · p.11 #3 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


In simple terms, for me, if this new 50 f/1.4 renders/draws like the 85mm f/1.4 G Master it becomes a must own lens for me, and in some of these latest samples posted in this thread I do see some of the 85mm G Master 'look'... But I wont know until I get my hands on one. My 85mm G Master is just a incredible lens and the finest optic I have ever used. I own the 55 f/1.8 Zeiss, and I like it but I would never compare/mistake it for a 85mm G Master image, as IMO the G Master kills the 55 f/1.8, so if the new f/1.4 can capture some of that magic, then the new f/1.4 wins easily for me and is worth the upgrade and asking price as I strive for KILLER IQ.


Jul 21, 2016 at 02:49 AM
ecarlino
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #4 · p.11 #4 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


philber wrote:
Yes, very interesting pictures, Eric! In the first, I detect a behavior similar to the FE 85 GM. The lens seems to have a great amount of blur in the bokeh, and a fast transition from in-focus to out-of-focus. This can lead to some "unpleasantness" (to my eye at leat) when the blurred background is close to the sharp subject, because the transition from very sharp to very blurred appears unnaturally fast. This is the case in the fist picture with the 3 girls.
OTOH, as the learned Charles writes, the third picture is a delight. The very blurred background manages
...Show more

In the first case, I wonder - could that unpleasantness (I see what you are referring to) have been avoided by simply stopping down to f1.7 or f/2 ?
Perhaps it's a case of not always needing to drive the sports car at 250 km/h




Jul 21, 2016 at 04:20 AM
ecarlino
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #5 · p.11 #5 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Fred Miranda wrote:
I really shouldn't be getting involved on this...I was just trying to clarify things as before their edits, the review was confusing to me. At this point I only cares how the lens renders as sharpness won't be its weakness.


Thanks for your work on this Fred. I wonder if people realize how much time is involved sometimes in putting together posts like yours, especially when it involves deciphering someone else's unintended riddle.

Edited on Jul 21, 2016 at 06:47 AM · View previous versions



Jul 21, 2016 at 05:06 AM
Beni
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #6 · p.11 #6 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Does anyone have an opinion on the other point DPReview brings up about these new lenses forcing focus stopped down in any mode thereby making them practically unusable in the studio whatsoever and less accurate/slower everywhere else? Deal breaker for me. Not having the ability to shoot in low light or a studio is a serious limitation for a camera system.


Jul 21, 2016 at 05:24 AM
RCicala
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.11 #7 · p.11 #7 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


This whole thread is really a beautiful thing. We all got together and did logic and reasoning and showed that the sum of the input of the group is greater than the input of any one of us. It is an island of reason standing proudly on the dark, stormy sea of the internet.


Jul 21, 2016 at 05:27 AM
Lee Saxon
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #8 · p.11 #8 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Beni wrote:
Does anyone have an opinion on the other point DPReview brings up about these new lenses forcing focus stopped down in any mode thereby making them practically unusable in the studio whatsoever and less accurate/slower everywhere else? Deal breaker for me. Not having the ability to shoot in low light or a studio is a serious limitation for a camera system.


I shoot in studio a lot and that would be a huge problem for me too.

I'm guessing there are two possibilities:

(1) This is an unintended bug in which certain lenses ignore the "exposure preview: off" setting (or I think Sony calls it "settings effect: off" because why hire qualified English translators when you've got an unpaid intern who took a year of high school English). That sort of bug shouldn't be difficult to fix.

(2) This lens has major focus shift issues and the "wide open" focus results are meaningless. If so, this behavior makes focus more accurate not less (though "slower" is probably true). I wish my D750 would do this with some lenses (ie 14-24/2.8). But yeah, there should probably still be an option to turn it off.



Jul 21, 2016 at 08:07 AM
wayne seltzer
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #9 · p.11 #9 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


philber wrote:
Yes, very interesting pictures, Eric! In the first, I detect a behavior similar to the FE 85 GM. The lens seems to have a great amount of blur in the bokeh, and a fast transition from in-focus to out-of-focus. This can lead to some "unpleasantness" (to my eye at leat) when the blurred background is close to the sharp subject, because the transition from very sharp to very blurred appears unnaturally fast. This is the case in the fist picture with the 3 girls.
OTOH, as the learned Charles writes, the third picture is a delight. The very blurred background manages
...Show more

A great lens but I still prefer my Otus 55 over it.
The Otus bokeh rendering would retain more shape in the objects outside the plane of focus in the shot above of the girls as Phillipe mentions and even the shot with the woman. I am also not seeing yet the level of clarity and microcontrast in the plane of focus that I see with my Otus which is a hallmark of the Otus line. It won't have the APO colors either of the Otus nor the like butter feel of the MF ring. But this lens costs and weighs much less and much less cost to replace if dropped.



Jul 21, 2016 at 08:59 AM
snapsy
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.11 #10 · p.11 #10 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Beni wrote:
Does anyone have an opinion on the other point DPReview brings up about these new lenses forcing focus stopped down in any mode thereby making them practically unusable in the studio whatsoever and less accurate/slower everywhere else? Deal breaker for me. Not having the ability to shoot in low light or a studio is a serious limitation for a camera system.


It's not clear if Sony told DPreview this or if it's just their presumption but according to them to reason is to minimize focus shift and shutter lag:

"While the intent is to minimize focus shift and shutter lag, ironically you may experience an increased lag in shooting due to decreased AF performance when shooting at smaller apertures - particularly relative to the 55/1.8 which already focuses faster due to a smaller focusing group and potentially faster motor. "



Jul 21, 2016 at 09:11 AM
snapsy
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.11 #11 · p.11 #11 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


RCicala wrote:
This whole thread is really a beautiful thing. We all got together and did logic and reasoning and showed that the sum of the input of the group is greater than the input of any one of us. It is an island of reason standing proudly on the dark, stormy sea of the internet.


Roger, your tireless work on lens testing has produced a sea of information in what was previously an enormous black hole. Not only has it been informative but I'm certain it has had a positive effect on long-standing manufacturer issues like build quality and serviceability (from your tear-downs), QC/centering issues (your optical bench tests), and general warranty/customer service (your reports on repairs of rentals).



Jul 21, 2016 at 09:15 AM
GMPhotography
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.11 #12 · p.11 #12 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Im walking over to B&H, I just may need divine intervention.

Just got my lensrental gear for the week. Bad news is I need a second monopod.



Jul 21, 2016 at 09:17 AM
ecarlino
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #13 · p.11 #13 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


GMPhotography wrote:
Im walking over to B&H, I just may need divine intervention.

Just got my lensrental gear for the week. Bad news is I need a second monopod.


Guy - see if they have the new 70-200/2.8 GM behind the counter - i'd love to know what you think of it (if that wasn't part of the LR shipment). I've got that on pre-order in addition to the 50, but nobody has been talking about the big guy.



Jul 21, 2016 at 09:36 AM
GMPhotography
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.11 #14 · p.11 #14 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Was going to check on both


Jul 21, 2016 at 10:05 AM
ecarlino
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #15 · p.11 #15 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Thanks / see if they have any update on ETA as well - their website still says "July 29" but i just checked with my Midwestern dealer who told me it's unlikely i'll get the zoom before i leave for Italy on Aug 3rd (he indicated i'll likely just miss it). Downside is i'd love to try it out in the Dolomites and the Riviera, but the upside is I won't have to carry it (doesn't go well with my speedo!)

i just ordered the Tenba 13-dslr and the new PeakDesign 13 (to compare) - having 3 f/1.4 lenses (35, 50, 85) is too much (with the 2 Batis and the camera) for the 13-slim, which sucks b/c i really love that bag!

btw, "word on the street" is that the 70-200GM is better than the Canon non-IS and the Nikon VR2, but not quite as good as the Canon 70-200 IS II.



Jul 21, 2016 at 10:19 AM
MJKoski
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #16 · p.11 #16 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


RCicala, now that you are measuring this Sony stuff, could you also measure sensor-flange distance for a bunch of A7R2 bodies? This, because my Loxia was more easy to fit to a demo body in a shop than my own R2 I recently sold. It would also explain why some people are able to adapt Canon WA TS-E lenses easily to R2 and some get absolutely crap corner performance. It cannot be pure adapter problem.


Jul 21, 2016 at 11:00 AM
snapsy
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.11 #17 · p.11 #17 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Fred Miranda wrote:
Update: I just checked and they did correct the MTF graphical representation as well (see below image). Perhaps someone read my post and contacted them. I'm glad it's fixed now as what they had before was very confusing.

I think what they mean by this representation is that everything between the red and black lines would show higher resolution (50lp/mm frequency) for the 55/1.8 when compared to the 50/1.4. However, that's only true for the off-axis tangential line...Even with the current review fixes, actual images would not show what they are trying to describe as their analysis is completely ignoring
...Show more

Here is Rishi's comment about the update. Nice going Fred!

Rishi Sanyal
Yes, Fred was right, as I've now mentioned in some comments below - and we've updated the image to show proper 4 and 16mm image height circles. Our apologies for drawing diameters instead of radii - I blame under-caffeination yesterday morning as we were frantically trying to update the story to incorporate Roger's findings.

That said, this doesn't at all mean our methodologies are suspect - in fact, this finding probably strengthens our initial argument. That a fairly large portion of the image concedes an advantage in tangential 50 lp/mm MTF to the FE 55mm, since the region in between red and blue circles only appears larger now.

So, if anything, this finding just strengthens our claim - so why you use it to claim our methodology is 'suspect' is odd.

That said, we def do not find that our copy of the 50/1.4 was sharper than the 55/1.8 within that red circle, so there's still something going on here. Probably a poor copy.



Jul 21, 2016 at 11:14 AM
GMPhotography
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.11 #18 · p.11 #18 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!



Nothing behind any counter. I almost bought another bag. I'm sick


ecarlino wrote:
Thanks / see if they have any update on ETA as well - their website still says "July 29" but i just checked with my Midwestern dealer who told me it's unlikely i'll get the zoom before i leave for Italy on Aug 3rd (he indicated i'll likely just miss it). Downside is i'd love to try it out in the Dolomites and the Riviera, but the upside is I won't have to carry it (doesn't go well with my speedo!)

i just ordered the Tenba 13-dslr and the new PeakDesign 13 (to compare) - having 3 f/1.4 lenses (35, 50,
...Show more



Jul 21, 2016 at 11:16 AM
chrisgibbs
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #19 · p.11 #19 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


ecarlino wrote:
btw, "word on the street" is that the 70-200GM is better than the Canon non-IS and the Nikon VR2, but not quite as good as the Canon 70-200 IS II.


I always get stoned when I say this, but I thought my Canon 70-200/2.8ll (especially @ 135mm) wasn't as nice as this dinky little FE 4/70-200. ~Chris



Jul 21, 2016 at 11:33 AM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.11 #20 · p.11 #20 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


snapsy wrote:
Here is Rishi's comment about the update. Nice going Fred!

Rishi Sanyal
Yes, Fred was right, as I've now mentioned in some comments below - and we've updated the image to show proper 4 and 16mm image height circles. Our apologies for drawing diameters instead of radii - I blame under-caffeination yesterday morning as we were frantically trying to update the story to incorporate Roger's findings.

That said, this doesn't at all mean our methodologies are suspect - in fact, this finding probably strengthens our initial argument. That a fairly large portion of the image concedes an advantage in tangential 50
...Show more

Regarding their analysis, I still believe that both tangential and sagittal results along with other frequencies should be taken in consideration.

Like I wrote, I found the review very insightful, especially the way it compares bokeh rendering and coma.
The resolution section is also very good as it was shot at infinity. (My personal preference)

I believe that the discrepancy in their real world results, compared to Roger's test could be lens variation. Perhaps testing both lenses for de-centering or getting better copies could solve the puzzle.



Jul 21, 2016 at 11:41 AM
1       2       3              10      
11
       12              17       18       end




FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              10      
11
       12              17       18       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username      Reset password