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Archive 2016 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?

TakenWild
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?

I've tried two copies 150mm 3.5, though I liked the lens unshifted I was never happy with it shifted. Especially at longer distances. I currently own the P645 200mm f4, that lens is sharper than the 150mm, but I rarely use it. I usually just stich with my Canon FDn 200mm f4. Which is sharper, smaller and lighter.

I use the Zeiss CY 100mm 3.5 with fotodiox emount to EOS shift adapter and get 8mm of sharp horizontal shift and 10mm of vertical shift. That lens is very, very sharp and only weighs 285g.

Looking at how well your 45-85mm shifts at 50mm I wouldn't be bothered with the P67 55mm, little gain and lose zoom.

rdeloe wrote:
I think that will give you a very flexible setup Mark. I hope it works out for you. If you need longer, I've been happy with my copy of the 150/3.5. Takenwild has expressed reservations, and it certainly doesn't want to be shifted much more than 10mm. Still, I use it a lot and am very happy with the results.

Nov 03, 2016 at 07:33 PM

trogdon
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?

So the mirex adapter, where does one buy one of these?

Nov 03, 2016 at 08:52 PM

TakenWild
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?

Email them.
http://www.mirex-adapter.de/tilt_shift_adapter.htm

trogdon wrote:
So the mirex adapter, where does one buy one of these?

Nov 04, 2016 at 12:41 AM

rdeloe
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?

As promised, infinity lens tests (unshifted)...

Click on this link and look for a ZIP file called 'SMC Pentax-A infinity test.zip'.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7LdVznTJdvWT2VOdG15cDlaelk
There are additional notes in a file called Readme.txt that explain the setup.

The zip file contains a sequence of test shots for the SMC Pentax-A 45-85/4.5 at all main focal lengths (45mm...85mm) and apertures f/4.5 through f/22. It also contains tests shots for the same scene shot at the same time using the SMC Pentax-A 55/2.8 (f/2.8 through f/22) and SMC Pentax-A 75/2.8 (f/2.8 through f/22).

In a nutshell, all three lenses look good to me. To my eye, the primes seem best at f/8 but are great at f/11. The zoom seems best at f/11, but does fine at f/8 and f/16. I saw more CA in the zoom than in the primes at comparable apertures (but only at 1:1).

Some of the difference in sharpness at comparable focal lengths and apertures is likely due to focus differences (that tower was a long way away!). I looked for the 55/2.8 to be falling apart due to field curvature. It's not obvious to me in these images. If I had to pick between the two shots at 55mm and f/8, I'd choose the one from the zoom... but to me it's a close call.

I didn't test this sequence shifted, but based on the previous chart tests I did, I expect the zoom would be the winner at max shift.

Hope this helps.

TakenWild wrote:
Wow! Thanks! The 45-85mm looks very impressive. You may have cost me some money! Does the lens also hold up well at infinity?
I found the Pentax 645 55mm held up well against test charts shifted, but the shifted in distant landscapes it fell apart (my guess is it also had a lot of field curvature).

I had high hopes for Pentax 67 lenses, but they are not working out worth so far. I'm finding the P67 55mm SMC's plane of focus to be very wavy. Maybe I have a dud copy, I don't know.

Nov 04, 2016 at 09:26 AM

marktomaras
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?

Rob, I saw in an older post you wrote that the pentax 45-85 zoom is borderline too heavy for the Mirex. Do you still feel that way? I would hate to buy a lens that I have to fight with.

On another note, I took your advice and requested this from Mirex:

"I understand this adapter has light springs and heavy duty springs. I plan to use a fairly heavy lens, could you please ship mine with the heavy springs already installed?"

They Replied:

"we have a newer version with a rotation mechanic as our other ts-adapters for medium format lenses.
To rotate the camera they have to push and hold a lever.
When you release the lever, the mechanism locks firmly. (all 22,5 degrees)"

Does this have any bearing on the weight issue of the lens?

Thanks,
Mark

Nov 04, 2016 at 10:39 AM

Gunzorro
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?

Sorry, but I don't quite understand this fascination with mounting medium format lenses onto 35mm-sized sensors/bodies.

Not that I haven't done it myself!

I have a full Pentax 67II system and always wanted to utilize the lenses for digital. The downsides are size and long focal lengths.

I did run comparisons between Pentax 67 lenses, and my results confirm the latest 55/4 to be outstanding, better than the very good 45/4. Other winners were: 75/2.8 ASPH, standard 105/2.4, and the "good old" 165/2.8.

When shifting, either for architectural needs or stitching, I look to wide angle and ultra wide angle. I'm not a studio photographer, and when needed, use my Canon 90 TSE or a long telephoto.

I don't mind adapters, and am not afraid of stacked adapters, although I would not call that "best practice" for flat or untilted focal plane.

In the last year, I bought a simple Kipon shift adapter (Adorama) to mount Mamiya 645 lenses to Nikon, Canon or Sony via intermediate adapters. Results were okay, but IQ left something to be desired with un-flocked mounts on Sony a7R.

I much prefer using Canon TSE lenses to fulfill my TS needs on Sony. Better lenses designed for the job. Generally outstanding IQ from each lens. I particularly like using the TSE on native Canon body, and see no reason to avoid using the 5DsR instead of Sony a7RII.

Even though it has CA (which cleans up in LR or PS), I would use the original EF 24 TSE over trying to adapt something to accommodate such wide angle coverage. I used this lens of over a dozen years of architectural work, until after the new v.II came out.

Obviously, if one is looking for a shifted telephoto scenario, the Mirex with medium format lenses is a fine way to go. But I seldom have need to use my 90 TSE, so have no interest in tele options.

I don't know if it has any interest on this topic, but of note is the new Sigma MC-11 adapter for Canon EF to Sony Nex E, which seems to do fine with my 17 TSE without just as it comes from Sigma, with no added flocking. 24 TSE looks good too for night and twilight shots -- some of the most demanding regarding internal reflections. The Sigma seems to have an excellent baffling design and flat matte paint.

Not trying to discourage anyone from trying the MF lenses on small format -- just "been there, done that" to a certain extent and found alternative methods that seem more bulletproof in normal use.

Nov 04, 2016 at 11:45 AM

GMPhotography
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?

Pretty hard to beat the Canon 24TSE version II with any MF lens in that focal length. Personally I would not waste my time and money on trying unless you adapt a tech lens from Rodenstock or Schneider

Nov 04, 2016 at 11:49 AM

rdeloe
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?

Mark, yes, borderline because all of the heavier lenses put a lot of pressure on the tilt mechanism (which is held in place by a thumb screw). My solution (which I use for all of them actually) is to mount the lens and then rotate the 645 lens 90 degrees so that it is in "swing" mode. That way there's no downward pressure. Of course if you need to tilt the 645 lens then you're back to the issue (but presumably you're paying attention). I've just gotten into the habit of always checking that it hasn't tilted with every lens because just taking it out of the bag can pull it into a tilt.

Interesting that Mirex has abandoned the original design. I have no issues with the P645-EOS rotation mechanism, which involves holding a lever and turning. It certainly eliminates the entire problem I have with the original design!

marktomaras wrote:
Rob, I saw in an older post you wrote that the pentax 45-85 zoom is borderline too heavy for the Mirex. Do you still feel that way? I would hate to buy a lens that I have to fight with.

On another note, I took your advice and requested this from Mirex:

"I understand this adapter has light springs and heavy duty springs. I plan to use a fairly heavy lens, could you please ship mine with the heavy springs already installed?"

They Replied:

"we have a newer version with a rotation mechanic as our other ts-adapters for medium format lenses.
To rotate the camera...Show more →

Nov 04, 2016 at 12:39 PM

rdeloe
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?

As far as I know, nothing that shifts or tilts in full frame beats the Canon TS-E II 24mm lens! But it alone costs nearly as much as my two Mirex adapters and all my medium format lenses -- and covers just one focal length. Also, I'm using a Sony A7r and I don't have an adapter that allows me to control the aperture (no aperture ring on those Canon EOS lenses...).

We all come at photography differently, that's for sure. I used to mostly hang around in the woods. These days I'm the city. In the woods, I tended to use shorter focal lengths and tilt a lot -- almost no shift. In the city, I'm using longer lenses, shifting most of the time, and rarely tilting. With my current setup (Mirex adapters and Pentax 645 lenses) I have it (nearly) all covered for a very reasonable cost. My Zeiss Distagon 21/2.8 gives me wider than 35mm and if I'm willing to crop out the vignetting I get plenty of shift and a field of view roughly like 24mm.

There's no question that this setup is clunky as can be, but again, the camera I used before this was made out of wood, brass and leather. So this actually feels quite comfortable even with the ridiculous dead weight I have to use on the A7r to kill the shutter shake. It works for me, and maybe most importantly, it's fun!

Nov 04, 2016 at 12:49 PM

Gunzorro
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?

Just to note that I've seen used 24TSE II listed here on B&S as low as $1300, and 17TSE as low as $1500. The original 24TSE sometimes shows up for under $600!

Nov 04, 2016 at 01:30 PM

rdeloe
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?

Those are excellent prices Gunzorro. I bet they didn't last long in the forum!

Regarding the model I 24TSE, I did come close to getting one years ago but the image quality was so-so. And, like it's older sibling the Canon FD 35 T/S, it does not allow tilt independent from shift, which is important to many people.

Nov 04, 2016 at 01:38 PM

marktomaras
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?

Rob & the rest of the forum,

So I ordered the Mirex EOS-NEX and I am pretty happy with the 2 lenses that my sights are set on: The Pentax-A 645 45-85 zoom and the Pentax-A 645 35mm.

But then I started thinking, what about a shift or tilt/shift lens for 35mm or 645? If I can find a really amazing shift lens for 35mm, I don't have to worry about the mechanical vignetting as much when adapting it to EOS for the Mirex. So if there is a stellar performer with a generous shift ability, I can go beyond the 12mm of shift that I was going to be limited to when using a medium format lens adapter in front of the Mirex. I did some research, and the Olympus 35mm shift lens looks interesting. Has anyone used one on a Mirex or similar adapter? An added benefit will be that I will have even more tilt/shift controls which can't hurt. On the longer side, the Nikon PC Micro 85mm looks interesting. If I knew it could shift 15mm, that could be a real contender!

On the medium format side, there is the Mamiya C 50mm shift. I'd still get the mechanical vignette limit of about 12mm, but as this is a medium format lens, and designed for shift, I would be pretty far off from the edges of the image circle, even at 12mm shift on the Mirex, so performance may be really optimal. But, I can't find a ton of data on this lens. Has anyone used it in this capacity (or in any capacity) that can tell some stories?

Rob, what is your feeling on this? Am I barking up the wrong tree, and will the Pentax 35 & Zoom best these options, or are some of these worthy considerations?

The price for the 2 pentax lenses is not too far off the price of the Olympus 35 shift and the Nikon PC 85. And if for some reason the Mamiya was killing the Pentax options due to the sweet spot usage of this scenario, that lens could be a great asset.

Thanks!
Mark

Nov 05, 2016 at 09:51 AM

TakenWild
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?

I have the Canon 17TSE and the 24TSE II, but I still think there is a place in adaptering Pentax 645 lenses.

The Canon 24TSE II isn't hugely sharper then the Pentax 645 35mm 3.5. Though 24mm is more useful for landscapes. If I'm going on an trip, I'd take the 24TSE. But, I still use P645 35mm in Australia a lot and I would not sell either.

Unshifted the Pentax 645 35mm is sharper than the FE 35mm 2.8 mid frame or in the corners stopped down.
It's also better than the CY 35-70 3.4 in the corners stopped down.

I even perfered it over a Sigma 35mm Art, due to having a flatter field, even though the Sigma was slightly sharper. And also being more versatile with shift and tilt.

Nov 05, 2016 at 10:35 AM

marktomaras
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?

Ok, after hours of scouring the forums, I think I have a shortlist of contenders for the first lens or two to use with the Mirex EOS-NEX on my A7rII. Please share your opinion, wisdom, or picks! The use is high res stitched panos and squares, for landscape, and architecture.

Lenses of interest

Olympus OM Zuiko 35mm f/2.8 shift $375

Mamiya 645 C 50mm f/4 shift $500

SMC Pentax-A 645 35mm f/3.5 $500

SMC Pentax-A 645 45mm-85mm f/4.5 $300

Nov 05, 2016 at 02:46 PM

rdeloe
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?

On the Mamiya, I'd search the forum and find a Mamiya enthusiast to ask. jcolwell would be the first person I'd ask.

Olympus OM lenses adapt very nicely to the Canon mount using a Leitax adapter. In fact, there's a Leitax adapter designed for that very purpose on eBay right now for sale by someone with the eBay ID rdeloe

I know nothing about the Olympus 35mm shift lens. I highly doubt it has the same quality as the SMC Pentax-A 645 35mm, and to be honest I don't think it will give you a lot more shift. There's a point at which the sensor itself becomes a limiting factor.

If you're looking at Olympus then sooner or later you're going to discover that they made a 24mm tilt-shift lens. I bought it because another forum member had raved about it, but I returned it after having it for a short time because it was terrible. It might have been my copy, but I don't think so.

My advice: here you have two people who own and use the SMC Pentax-A 645 35mm and they're telling you it's excellent unshifted. Shifted, I think it's very good up to 10mm, while Takenwild is less happy. When we mess around with alternative lenses like this, it's rare to have someone using exactly what you want to use... I know what I'd do.

Nov 05, 2016 at 05:20 PM

rdeloe
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?

Also for your consideration (just disovered this!):

(1) Very nice evaluation of three classic 35mm shift lenses from Nikon, Olympus and Zeiss: http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/35mm_shift/35mm_test1.html

>> Mark note in the description of the Olympus shift that there are critical but subtle differences between the various versions

(2) Enthusiastic review of the Pentax 645 FA 35mm lens (this is the autofocus version): http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/pentax645_fa35mm.html

Nov 05, 2016 at 06:50 PM

marktomaras
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?

Rob, you continue to impress! Thank you for all of your time and input. I think I know I'm going to do... I'll be sure to share my course of action, tests and findings. Now to wait for the Mirex!

Nov 05, 2016 at 09:24 PM

Audii-Dudii
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?

marktomaras wrote:
Ok, after hours of scouring the forums, I think I have a shortlist of contenders for the first lens or two to use with the Mirex EOS-NEX on my A7rII. Please share your opinion, wisdom, or picks! The use is high res stitched panos and squares, for landscape, and architecture.

Lenses of interest

Olympus OM Zuiko 35mm f/2.8 shift $375

Mamiya 645 C 50mm f/4 shift $500

SMC Pentax-A 645 35mm f/3.5 $500

SMC Pentax-A 645 45mm-85mm f/4.5 $300

I have a very good copy of the Mamiya 50mm/f4 PC lens and although I have not used it with my A7R, I have used it with my Contax 645/P30+ combo and it provided ~10mm of movement with its 33mm x 44mm sensor. So my guess is that absent some weird issue, its image circle should be plenty large enough for your needs.

As with many lenses, there is some variation of image quality among them. As I said, mine is at least a very good copy and possibly even a great one, although most of the photos I took with it were converted to B&W, so there may be some issues that arise with color photography that I didn't pay much attention to...

If you're looking for a wider-angle shift lens, another one to consider is the Schneider / Leica 28mm/f2.8 Super Angulon PC lens. I have one of these as well and while photos taken with it have a very different look than the Mamiya PC lens or my collection of Zeiss lenses -- they tend to be rather less "snappy," although still have very high resolution -- I like it and use it often. Plus it's reasonably small and light, for what it is.

Unfortunately, the shift mechanism only goes 11mm in each direction, which is about all its 63mm image circle can cover, and although they are reasonably readily available, they do tend to be somewhat pricey.

Anyway, that's my two cents...

Nov 05, 2016 at 11:00 PM

marktomaras
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?

Thank you Audii, please tell me, besides the 10mm of shift, how would you rate/describe the Mamiya 50 Shift for sharpeness, CA, and edge performance at optimal aperture?

Nov 05, 2016 at 11:37 PM

TakenWild
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?

No, I would say the P645 35mm holds up very well with 10mm of shift (I'd say as well as my Canon 24mm TSE II does). Sadly up to 15mm of shift it does loose quality. I do wonder if the new HD version is good all the way out to 15mm. I'd be very tempted to buy one. I can't rent them in Australia to test that, so don't know.

In any case, I'm very happy with using the Pentax-A version. I'm very happy with just using it to 10-12mm of shift on my A7R2. And I also use it on a IR converted Sony A7 to 15mm of shift. Less MP and IR seems to be less of an issue.

rdeloe wrote:
On the Mamiya, I'd search the forum and find a Mamiya enthusiast to ask. jcolwell would be the first person I'd ask.

Olympus OM lenses adapt very nicely to the Canon mount using a Leitax adapter. In fact, there's a Leitax adapter designed for that very purpose on eBay right now for sale by someone with the eBay ID rdeloe

Nov 06, 2016 at 02:15 AM

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