p.2 #2 · Technical Question: Why does Canon lenses autofocus faster than Nikon?
ffstory wrote:
Would you be happier if they compromised on lens design and use a simpler design with less groups that allows for simpler and faster rear focusing for the 85mm G series?
I personally believe that the trade-off is well chosen for 85/1.8G. It is much better lens overall than 85/1.8D and sells for a great price. I owned both and strongly prefer the new one.
Of course not. Looks like from a price standpoint they nailed it for portrait purposes.
My initial question was that I see a trend that Canon primes tend to auto focus faster than nikons. I was asking if it is possibly due to the mount design and focus motors both companies use.
Perhaps 85mm isn't a good example. How about the 35mm 1.4 from both. These 1.4 lenses are expensive and represents their top lenses in that focal length.
So if it's a compromise Nikon is working with from a value and price standpoint, can anyone name a single Canon lens that focuses slower than their predecessor? I don't think there is any.
Why didn't Canon compromise but Nikon seems to? Can it be a limitation of the systems themselves or a business decision?
I shoot Nikon for stills and do some video with Canon. I'm a dual system user trying to understand and learn because there's a lot more knowledgable people here than me.
p.2 #3 · Technical Question: Why does Canon lenses autofocus faster than Nikon?
As written above. Canon tends to produce more lenses with rear inner focusing (where group of elements behind iris are moving during focusing), whereas Nikon favours designs where group/s in the middle in front of the iris are moving (at least in modern designs). There are exceptions obviously. There is a difference in mass being moved between middle and rear.. I am not an expert, but it could be related to physical aspects of bayonet. Nikon's modern lenses tends to use larger elements.
Both Nikon and Canon can produce fast AF lenses when the lens is designed for that. I guess Nikon's short-to medium primes are not designed for focusing speed. In fact I guess many people would prefer the opposite - longer focus travel for more precise focusing.
I think it is pointless to compare brands, it is better to compare two lenses as any designs can have pros and cons.
p.2 #4 · Technical Question: Why does Canon lenses autofocus faster than Nikon?
Camera body and custom AF settings can make a huge difference on perceived lens AF speed. On most directly comparable telephoto lenses there is not an appreciable AF speed difference one way or the other in my experience. It's a little more variable on the wider end depending on the lens, but there are trade-offs (eg. the slower lens might be much sharper). Canon's got some dogs too, like the flagship 85/1.2L II which is perhaps the slowest focusing lens I've ever seen.
Another thing is a lot of Nikon's class-leading cheap lenses like the 1.8G series have incredible performance but they use micro motors for AF rather than faster ring motors. This is one reason why a lens as good at the 85/1.8G is only about $400 and has better sharpness than most of the lenses Nikon makes. Still, people manage sports shots with them all the time without issue, but perhaps with a few less keepers. Portrait and macro lenses tend to focus slower because there is an emphasis on accuracy rather than speed. I prefer this way of doing things personally, because speed isn't everything. On the lenses where speed matters most (the big tele's) Nikon is as fast or faster than any of the competition and their camera bodies track better. Lens AF speed is generally a complete non-issue anyway unless you are using it outside it's intended arena.
p.2 #5 · Technical Question: Why does Canon lenses autofocus faster than Nikon?
TooManyShots wrote:
Is not fps we are talking about. Is the speed in which the lens can lock on focus while the subjects are moving. You don't need to shoot charts and walls for this. If the actions are unfolding but your lens just can't lock onto the focus of the subjects, yeah, your lens AF is SLOW, period.
:-) i used fps as an example of quantifiable comparison of fast versus slow. specifically how much faster between the two brands; otherwise, without empirical data, it is a very subjective comment.
btw, i thought af acquisition is performed by the camera body and not the lens? the lens' movements is the results of feedback signals from the body's af system.
p.2 #6 · Technical Question: Why does Canon lenses autofocus faster than Nikon?
yes, for acquisition
but a sharp image requires the lens elements to move - it seems to me that Canon has usually been ahead of Nikon in the types of motors used to move the lens elements
Fast focusing doesn't mean anything if the subject being shot isn't captured by the lens/camera combination...
Hahahahahahah....but what do you think it means if the lens is fast in focusing? I means it can focus fast. If the lens can't focus fast, we call it focusing hunting. Not fast focusing. You can not have a lens, which is fast in FOCUSING, to be hunting all the time. In that case, the lens isn't FOCUSING at all.
Is hilarious some of you are apologizing for Nikon using semantics .... Fast focusing vs Fast hunting or focusing hunting.
p.2 #11 · Technical Question: Why does Canon lenses autofocus faster than Nikon?
RSHPhotography wrote:
No intention to start a war, nor is it to shame Nikon. I own 2 of the fastest Nikons ever made: the 24-70 and the 70-200 VR2. Both autofocuses very quick, but generally speaking it looks like Canon lenses on average focus faster than their Nikon counterpart.
So if I can compare a few lenses:
Canon 85mm 1.8 is much much faster than Nikon 85mm 1.8G. This one is disappointing for me as there's a good 10year+ difference between the 2 lenses yet Nikon is slower to focus.
When I shot Canon a few years back, the 85 was something I could use for sports due to its quick autofocus. I wouldn't try that with the Nikon. In fact the D versions of the 85mm are noticeably faster than the newer G lenses.
Canon 100mm Macro IS vs Nikon 105 Macro VR. The Canon IS L lens is much faster here as well. Both command similar prices and both are each respective company's flagship Macro lens.
Canon 35mm 1.4 V1 or V2 absolutely destroys the Nikon 35mm 1.4 in focus speed. I still have my old v1 35 1.4L. I was shocked by the underwhelming focus response from Nikon's 1.4 when I rented it for a wedding.
Is it the electronic aperture control on Canon that tips the scales? Nikon's SWM is just not as good as Canon's USM or STM? Just wondering if there's a technical reason why even 20 year old Canon lenses tend to autofocus faster than new Nikon lenses.
p.2 #12 · Technical Question: Why does Canon lenses autofocus faster than Nikon?
TooManyShots wrote:
Hahahahahahah....but what do you think it means if the lens is fast in focusing? I means it can focus fast. If the lens can't focus fast, we call it focusing hunting. Not fast focusing. You can not have a lens, which is fast in FOCUSING, to be hunting all the time. In that case, the lens isn't FOCUSING at all.
Is hilarious some of you are apologizing for Nikon using semantics .... Fast focusing vs Fast hunting or focusing hunting.
Just because a lens is not fast focus doesn't mean that the only other option must then be focus hunting, it just means that it may be slower focusing. There is not just two AF options, fast focusing or focus hunting, some lenses are just slower at focusing than others. Focus hunting just means that there is an issue finding and locking on to focus and thus the lens hunts back an forth to find accurate focus and this can have as much to do with the body as the lens. Slow focusing just means that there is a longer focus throw or the focus motor is just a slower speed design to allow for more accurate focusing due to other lens design considerations and/or cost. AF speed (and accuracy) also has much to do with the bodies being attached to the lens. Other than the D4/D5 series of cameras, I doubt there is a faster focusing camera than the D500 regardless of brand and regardless of lens attached to it.
As others have pointed out, just because a lens is fast focusing doesn't mean that it is always accurate either. Anyone can make a lens fast focus and camera combination, whether that lens/camera combo always snags focus is another thing altogether.
There are many variables in lens (and camera) design. Things like focus throw come into play, ie; how far a lens focus ring needs to turn from minimum focus to infinity focus. I see that my 85mm f1.4G has a long focus throw, yet my 24-70 VR has a very short focus throw. Guess what? The 24.70 is lightning fast - basically instantaneous, whereas the 85 is slow in comparison. The other thing is that you need a longer focus throw with the 85 f1.4 as it needs to be more accurate due to the fact it is a 1.4 and has almost zero DOF at minimum focus distances lens where miniscule movements of focus have a dramatic effect on focus point. Funnily enough, when you look at the focus scale, it is near the minimum distances where there is most difference in the length of the focus scale compared with nearer the infinity end. Look at the 24-70 f2.8 and there is a much shorter scale due to the inherent more DOF offered by f2.8 maximum aperture and also the fact that it is wide angle 24mm to only 70mm.
I shoot birds with a friend who uses Canon gear. I have my 400 f2.8E FL VR (+ TC's) on my D810 and now D500 and he uses his 300 f2.8 (+ TC's) on his 5D MKIII. I can tell you without a shadow of doubt that my 400 focuses faster on my D810, and there is no contest with the D500 attached. This is also the same my own 300 f2.8 VRII and with the 500 f4 VR I used to own. Add TC's and the same applies.
How about his Canon 24-105 f4? My old and new 24-70 f2.8 murders it for AF speed. We see no real difference in our 70-200 f2.8's. So, what do we take out of all this? Some Canon lenses and camera combos are probably faster than equivalent Nikon lenses and camera combos and some Nikon lenses and camera combos are faster than their Canon counterparts. That's it. It's not magic. They are the facts. You cannot make a blanket statement that one is faster than the other.
p.2 #13 · Technical Question: Why does Canon lenses autofocus faster than Nikon?
can't speak about specific lenses in questions, all I know is that a lens that focuses faster than another brand doesn't mean a thing if the body can't keep up with the subject (acquire, lock, track) to provide sharp images. This is exactly what I experienced with the 7D2+500 IS II vs D500+200-500 combos. The D500 combo stomped the 7D2 all over!
