garyvot wrote:
Lets not get too far ahead of ourselves. Shooting speed with focus tracking and auto exposure is apparently limited to 18fps (electronic shutter) and 10fps (mechanical). It is also further slowed to 8.5fps with "anti-shock" enabled (whatever that means--presumably IBIS).
And that assumes that focus tracking at these framerates is actually accurate.
We also do not know if the fixed focus 60fps mode includes RAW capture, but it seems likely to me that Olympus is still affected by the laws of physics, which govern memory and storage bandwidth.
The camera is impressive, but lets not bury the action SLRs just yet.
You don't know what "anti shock enabled" means? Wow. What do you shoot with?
garyvot wrote:
Lets not get too far ahead of ourselves. Shooting speed with focus tracking and auto exposure is apparently limited to 18fps (electronic shutter) and 10fps (mechanical). It is also further slowed to 8.5fps with "anti-shock" enabled (whatever that means--presumably IBIS).
And that assumes that focus tracking at these framerates is actually accurate.
We also do not know if the fixed focus 60fps mode includes RAW capture, but it seems likely to me that Olympus is still affected by the laws of physics, which govern memory and storage bandwidth.
The camera is impressive, but lets not bury the action SLRs just yet.
garyvot wrote:
Well smart guy, I'm pretty sure I've been around serious photography for longer than you have, and probably longer than you've been alive.
And since I just searched for Olympus anti-shock, I now know what it is. Not something that is a common issue with the cameras I am familiar with.
But thanks for the helpful and informative way you have chosen to share your knowledge with me. Wow indeed.
You maybe much older than me, or have been pressing the shutter longer, but what is that have to do with this camera? Sounds like you are just trolling. This thread is about the em1II that we have been waiting for 3 years. And here you are as a Canon shooter telling us that we shouldn't be excited. Thank YOU!
PS: there is a new Canon mirrorless camera, maybe that would be more to your liking.
savingspaces wrote:
So basically you are trolling. Nice!
I have been an FM member for 13 years, and not once in all that time have I ever been accused of being a troll. In fact, I have never even gotten into a serious dispute with another forum member over something legitimate (much less imagined). So this is almost comical in a way.
I am actually quite interested in this camera, which is why I am here. Someone extolled the potential of 60fps shooting, claiming that it would render DSLRs obsolete, and I made a (factual) observation that focus tracking caused framerates to be much lower. (This is taken directly from the Olympus site, BTW.)
So I'll just say this: You have misinterpreted my original post as well as my interest here. And so I am going to let your provocative responses pass. I suggest you do the same.
Based on his post telling m4/3 users to not get too exited about certain claims Olympus was making, why would I ever assume that he was unfamiliar with the camera. If I'm going to join a conversation in his position, the last thing I'd do is make statements like that. So I was very surprised that he wasn't familiar with "anti shock" - so based on his actions, he smelled like a troll.
FTR, it's not just the lack of AF tracking at the 60fps mode that makes it useless for sports...it's that it uses the electronic shutter. Since this isn't a global shutter camera, the actual image will be read line by line off the camera. With this being able to read 60fps, my guess is they have a pretty fast clear of around 1/60s to read off (then it starts again at the top). Problem is, you will have major rolling shutter issues, even at 1/60s, which will cause fast action (where 60fps may be useful) to appear warped, even at high shutter speeds.
That is true. The frame rate with the mechanical shutter is 18 fps, which is already pretty good. The Canon 7D II is 10 fps.
Jman13 wrote:
FTR, it's not just the lack of AF tracking at the 60fps mode that makes it useless for sports...it's that it uses the electronic shutter. Since this isn't a global shutter camera, the actual image will be read line by line off the camera. With this being able to read 60fps, my guess is they have a pretty fast clear of around 1/60s to read off (then it starts again at the top). Problem is, you will have major rolling shutter issues, even at 1/60s, which will cause fast action (where 60fps may be useful) to appear warped, even at high shutter speeds. ...Show more →
Jman13 wrote:
FTR, it's not just the lack of AF tracking at the 60fps mode that makes it useless for sports...it's that it uses the electronic shutter. Since this isn't a global shutter camera, the actual image will be read line by line off the camera. With this being able to read 60fps, my guess is they have a pretty fast clear of around 1/60s to read off (then it starts again at the top). Problem is, you will have major rolling shutter issues, even at 1/60s, which will cause fast action (where 60fps may be useful) to appear warped, even at high shutter speeds. ...Show more →
Jman, the lack of autofocus is of no impact to motorsports. the trick is to pick a nice corner, with contrasting backgrounds and then (for one example) you wait until the white stripes light up the face or visor. Mostly one is dragging the shutter, so in that sense 60 fps is not doable, but when one can use a high enough shutter to get it just right so there is some movement possible, the high frame rate is good for choosing between two to four shots. I've always limited my shutter to only four bursts when I shot with the Canon 1D stuff ... and always wish for much higher frame rates as four shots were useless at 8fps.
To describe it better, I want four or five shots to choose from within a two foot travel area - at 120 mph. That would be a godsend. So I'd be interested, if that were still my line of work.
The other part that is even more exciting is the ability to capture 14 frames (I believe that is what it is) BEFORE the shutter is pressed. 14 frames to back up ones missed timing. I can't tell you how many times a crash is missed by a quarter of a second where you pick it up ones he is already down and five feet down the road. Crash pictures SELL - what does that say about us, I wonder.
I've found that I always got the best results by mapping only the back button to focus. Pick a turn, put the single focus where you want the action to be, maybe five feet in front of it, and then snap three or four frames of each rider coming through the turn. Focus tracking isn't needed, but insane frame rates could be - if one has enough shutter speed. To high a shutter and the pictures are boring. I used to use the same technique for baseball and soccer with success, but basketball did not work well that way at all, I have to admit.
Just saying that to make the blanket statement that it's "useless" because of no focus tracking ... is greatly off the mark, depending on subject and shooting style.
It's good to be skeptical of the first set of announcements, since it seems that marketing often has some pretty bold claims that sometimes turn out to be true, but sometimes with caveats. But at the same time, we are making many assumptions about the details based on our old ideas of yesterdays best technology. That stuff changes and so who knows about the readouts speed or rolling shutter. None of us do at this point. In that sense Garyvot is spot on, even though it ruins some peoples desired to chant fanboy songs even before the first model hits the street.
So I feel its good to be optimistic, while while being a bit skeptical at that same time. Tough to do.
Pavel wrote:
It's good to be skeptical of the first set of announcements, since it seems that marketing often has some pretty bold claims that sometimes turn out to be true, but sometimes with caveats. But at the same time, we are making many assumptions about the details based on our old ideas of yesterdays best technology. That stuff changes and so who knows about the readouts speed or rolling shutter. None of us do at this point.[\b] In that sense Garyvot is spot on, even though it ruins some peoples desired to chant fanboy songs even before the first model hits the street.
So I feel its good to be optimistic, while while being a bit skeptical at that same time. Tough to do....Show more →
None of us know indeed. Which goes both ways. It maybe as fast and wonderful as Olympus is claiming. While personally I couldn't care less, since I shoot mostly landscape.
Looks like the Mk II is a speed demon. Let's hope the new 121-point all cross-type dual PDAF/CDAF is both fast and accurate. It does look very promising. I think the Mk II will attract a lot of wildlife/bird photographers and boost sales of their 300/4 PRO lens which is incredibly good.
You're missing my point. I'm specifically talking about the 60fps mode, which will be useless for sports, and especially motorsports. Because the 60fps mode uses electronic shutter, the read speed of the sensor, which is likely 1/60s (which is very fast actually), is way too slow to freeze the motion of the car in a single shot...the car will be slanted (warped) due to the rolling shutter, such as in this image:
Pavel wrote:
Jman, the lack of autofocus is of no impact to motorsports. the trick is to pick a nice corner, with contrasting backgrounds and then (for one example) you wait until the white stripes light up the face or visor. Mostly one is dragging the shutter, so in that sense 60 fps is not doable, but when one can use a high enough shutter to get it just right so there is some movement possible, the high frame rate is good for choosing between two to four shots. I've always limited my shutter to only four bursts when I shot with the Canon 1D stuff ... and always wish for much higher frame rates as four shots were useless at 8fps.
To describe it better, I want four or five shots to choose from within a two foot travel area - at 120 mph. That would be a godsend. So I'd be interested, if that were still my line of work.
The other part that is even more exciting is the ability to capture 14 frames (I believe that is what it is) BEFORE the shutter is pressed. 14 frames to back up ones missed timing. I can't tell you how many times a crash is missed by a quarter of a second where you pick it up ones he is already down and five feet down the road. Crash pictures SELL - what does that say about us, I wonder.
I've found that I always got the best results by mapping only the back button to focus. Pick a turn, put the single focus where you want the action to be, maybe five feet in front of it, and then snap three or four frames of each rider coming through the turn. Focus tracking isn't needed, but insane frame rates could be - if one has enough shutter speed. To high a shutter and the pictures are boring. I used to use the same technique for baseball and soccer with success, but basketball did not work well that way at all, I have to admit.
Just saying that to make the blanket statement that it's "useless" because of no focus tracking ... is greatly off the mark, depending on subject and shooting style. ...Show more →
Almost turned away from this thread with the bickering above. Seriously?
All I need to know is where is the pre-order link at B&H.
The better-half watched the Photokina M1 II launch and said 'gotta have it'
From what I see, and I've been a Lumix user for years, it that it is finally time for
me to jump ship. Luckily my lenses will cross over; I even bought the 40-150/2.8 for my
GH4 and Poof the better-half says she might let me use her 300/4 some, and she emphasized 'some'
I'm also awaiting a pre-order for the EOS M-5, will be fun pitting the two against each other....gut
says the Oly will trash it.
I'm pretty interested in the high resolution pixel shift capture mode, as it offers more than just a significant resolution bump. It also completely eliminates false color (moire), and reduces noise (due to the affects of averaging eight images together).
It is pretty exciting to think that this might be used hand held for the first time, at least in some cases. But Olympus is so far downplaying this almost altogether, which makes me think they are still iterating on it.
