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Archive 2016 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II

  
 
Wilbus
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p.126 #1 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II


Pavel wrote:
Waay too long for me to consider. If I could deal with tiny bodies an large lenses - I'd be shooting Sony.

But I'm not, and I'm never going to be.

Olympus needs reminding that there is this idea of "balance" and that most were sold on the concept of m43 by the size and weight savings.


I haven't found a lens yet that doesn't balance very well on my E-M1 without battery grip.
The largest I have is the 40-150 F2.8 PRO and it's also my most used, it balances great.



Sep 16, 2017 at 01:42 AM
k-h.a.w
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p.126 #2 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II


https://photos.smugmug.com/KHW/Pics-by-Date/2017-04-18-E-M1230028-SHG-Hummingbirds-AFMA-3/i-22hV35t/0/0811cb96/X3/_4181265%20HIF%202280x1520%20Cropped_2280x1520-X3.jpg
Olympus E-M1MarkII + Olympus ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 300mm 1:2.8 @ ISO 400, FOCAL LENGTH 300.0 mm (300.0 mm in 35mm), APERTURE f/4.5, EXPOSURE TIME 0.00063s (1/1600). A 2280x1520 crop.

K-H.



Sep 16, 2017 at 01:46 AM
Pavel
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p.126 #3 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II


maf27 wrote:
The 12-100 balances well on the E-M1 - both literally and figuratively. It still is a significant savings in weight and size compared to APS-C and full frame equivalents.


Then I believe the concept of balance is lost on you. For if that combo fits your standards, we don't have the same idea of what balance is.

Nose down, with poor weighting. Walking around with that on my neck, bouncing up and down with each step are my definition of "ungainly". Though in use it was not so bad. I tried it in the store today and just like the 40-150 ruled it out.

Imho Olympus got themselves in a corner when they went to extremes in body size. They make good appropriately scaled down primes, but can't seem to get close with zooms. And it seems their Pro client base wants moderate speed zooms. I'm just waiting for a larger size body to go with these.

Now for "My" idea of balance, put a 12 f 2.0 prime on and and see what I mean by balance and the feel I'm after.

But the day at the store ended on an good note. The 12-40 was very much what I'd not found in handling the longer zooms and is now in my first Olympus zoom in a long while.

When they give me a larger size pro body, perhaps the E-1 v3, who knows miracles do happen. I'll may be first in line for both an upgrade to the E-1 v2 and some zooms.

Maybe they will even lose those "pro" art filters. Or is that essential to the customer base?




Sep 16, 2017 at 07:41 AM
bobbytan
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p.126 #4 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II


Some good tips on setting up your E-M1.2 for BIF:

http://www.getolympus.com/us/en/autofocus_birdtips?utm_content=read_tips&utm_campaign=em_birdtips_us&utm_source=email_etprm&utm_medium=email&emid

Thanks, Fred Amico, for sharing the link with me!



Sep 16, 2017 at 03:07 PM
Wilbus
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p.126 #5 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II


Posted a new thread about this on the Alt forum but felt it would be fun here as well.

Apparently, no Pros use Olympus, Fujifilm or Sony, according to an interview with a Nikon employee that is.

Full interview here: https://nikonrumors.com/2017/09/15/new-interview-with-tetsuro-goto-from-nikon-full-frame-is-the-trend-if-nikon-will-go-mirrorless-it-must-be-full-frame.aspx/#more-116119

And a snipper from the part where he makes the statement:

"On Sony A9 being driven by sensor technology: D5 is designed by Nikon, made by other company obviously. Nikon customer base is very broad, from novice to enthusiasts to prosumer to professional, that’s Nikon’s advantage. Olympus, Sony and Fujifilm can only cover a small part of that. So far there is no professional using their products. So when they develop products, even like retro style, they only try to meet these people and that’s only what they can do. Their customer base is limited anyway so they have limited view in developing products"

Too bad no pros use other products then Nikon (and I would assume Canon). I think the other companies need to know this as well, just to make sure they know no pros actually use their products.



Sep 17, 2017 at 02:56 AM
Wilbus
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p.126 #6 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II


Pavel wrote:
Then I believe the concept of balance is lost on you. For if that combo fits your standards, we don't have the same idea of what balance is.

Nose down, with poor weighting. Walking around with that on my neck, bouncing up and down with each step are my definition of "ungainly". Though in use it was not so bad. I tried it in the store today and just like the 40-150 ruled it out.

Imho Olympus got themselves in a corner when they went to extremes in body size. They make good appropriately scaled down primes, but can't seem
...Show more

Or people just have different ideas of good balance? And perhaps have found better ways to carry a camera rather then around the neck?

My 40-150 feels great on my E-M1.1. I am fully aware of the fact that is a larger lens then a small prime. Almost any camera, carried around ones neck, bounce around and it's the worst possible way to carry a camera, I hate it. Even carrying the loaned to me Leica III or my Olympus OM1 with a small 24mm prime is ungainly when carried around my neck. There are so many more possibilities now. I think I had a camera carried around my neck when I started shooting several years ago, I believe I did it once or maybe twice before telling my self "this is idiotic" and went and found a better way.

And frankly, if one is to compare, I know that a Nikon D5 or D500 with a 70-200mm strapped around ones neck is no less ungainly and no less bouncy. They also become front heavy. Long fast zooms become heavier, they become less mobile. It's as simple as that. I still considers the fast zooms I have and use to be very much portable, and well balanced. Your feelings around this may very well differ.

When shooting, it's even less of a problem as the 40-150 is wonderfully balanced with one hand on the camera and another one under the lens (as they should be held).

Of course, any camera with a small prime will be more balanced as all the weight is close to the housing.



Sep 17, 2017 at 03:06 AM
bobbytan
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p.126 #7 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II


Hilarious! A classic case of denial. Even Canon is not stupid enough to make such a claim.

:
Too bad no pros use other products then Nikon (and I would assume Canon). I think the other companies need to know this as well, just to make sure they know no pros actually use their products.




Sep 17, 2017 at 06:52 AM
bobbytan
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p.126 #8 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II


Absolutely agree. The E-M1.2 + 300/4 or PL 100-400 balances better than a Canon DSLR + 600/4 ... or the Nikon equivalent. Likewise the 40-150/2.8 PRO vs Canikon 300/2.8.

Wilbus wrote:
Or people just have different ideas of good balance? And perhaps have found better ways to carry a camera rather then around the neck?

My 40-150 feels great on my E-M1.1. I am fully aware of the fact that is a larger lens then a small prime. Almost any camera, carried around ones neck, bounce around and it's the worst possible way to carry a camera, I hate it. Even carrying the loaned to me Leica III or my Olympus OM1 with a small 24mm prime is ungainly when carried around my neck. There are so many more possibilities now. I
...Show more



Sep 17, 2017 at 07:00 AM
Pavel
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p.126 #9 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II


Wilbus wrote:
Or people just have different ideas of good balance? And perhaps have found better ways to carry a camera rather then around the neck?

My 40-150 feels great on my E-M1.1. I am fully aware of the fact that is a larger lens then a small prime. Almost any camera, carried around ones neck, bounce around and it's the worst possible way to carry a camera, I hate it. Even carrying the loaned to me Leica III or my Olympus OM1 with a small 24mm prime is ungainly when carried around my neck. There are so many more possibilities now. I
...Show more

Of course neither can I disagree that the idea of balance can mean different things to different people with different needs and standards - sort of like nobody can disagree that all pictures are equally good, since someone will find one far from the average viewpoint superior to the consensus driven "great" photo. I concede the point.

Come to think of it my iPhone is much superior an image maker when considered on a per gram, multiplied by units of convenience. So in that sense Olympus is just one small dot on the continuum, between great image quality versus great convenience. Not at all on one end.

But just the same, I wont be mounting a four inch teleconverter on it. If the need arises that I need to get a picture of an eagle far away - I'll just go get the appropriately sized gear. Sometimes small is good, sometimes large is superior. And once in a while the middle compromise suits, and that's where the Olympus shines. It shines brightest with it's small primes. The rest is a kludge. But yes, that's just my standard. Your's can be whatever your wallet, carry ability, IQ trade-offs and other plot points happen to be.

Yes, it's all personal. But then that was a given from the get go, was it not, that everyone speaks from their perspective, with their preferences, biases and limits? But what opinion can be trusted when anything goes, if it's from the mothership Olympus - less fallible than the Pope it would seem, to the standards of some.



Sep 17, 2017 at 12:19 PM
flash
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p.126 #10 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II


Pavel wrote:
.......and that's where the Olympus shines. It shines brightest with it's small primes. The rest is a kludge.


I see your point on this however... Isn't that where every other system shines as well? 5D4 with a 50mm 1.4 balances beautifully. Put a 70-200 on the front and it's not nearly as nice. And to deal with that they offer a grip accesory. Same as Olympus do. The Oly 40-150 and 300 handle much better when the camera is gripped. Without the grip smaller lenses work well. Isn't that exactly why the flagship sports camera (1Dx2 and D5) come gripped out of the box.

I don't know of any system where when the length of the lens extend more than the height of the camera that things aren't compromised regarding handling.

Gordon

p.s. I also agree on the 12-40. Best balanced pro zoom (on the EM1.2) I've used.



Sep 17, 2017 at 03:45 PM
Pavel
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p.126 #11 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II


flash wrote:
I see your point on this however... Isn't that where every other system shines as well? 5D4 with a 50mm 1.4 balances beautifully. Put a 70-200 on the front and it's not nearly as nice. And to deal with that they offer a grip accesory. Same as Olympus do. The Oly 40-150 and 300 handle much better when the camera is gripped. Without the grip smaller lenses work well. Isn't that exactly why the flagship sports camera (1Dx2 and D5) come gripped out of the box.

I don't know of any system where when the length of the lens extend more
...Show more

Absolutely! But what I was exaggerating a bit to try to illustrate is that at some point the extreme ends don't work for us, especially I meant (but failed) to show if one wants only one system. Sure in a way on could use only a phone and go hog wild on the virtues of portability - but which of us enthusiasts would? Sure someone is there who probably shoots weddings with iPhones - I don't care. Those are grotesque outliers.

The on the full frame with a 1200 ... well, more of us could see that here, but not your normal sort of shooter. It's the extreme at the other end.

And so on ... each level has it's "raison d'etre". I consider Olympus to the the cats pajamas. Why? It was born and bred with an important niche. Small and light, easy to carry and inconspicuous. Of course it's still good with long lenses. Heck. I'd put a Nikon 500 on it every once in a while if it auto-focused and if the sherpas cost less.

But to me ... the drift towards the long zooms takes the honed and focused mission of the micro four thirds platform and dilutes it.

Just a bit anyways. and enough to make it's core argument weaker. Choice is good however and the zooms are popular. On days that I'm grumpy, I wonder if that is why there is no 9 mm f 2.0 Olympus prime. I can see it now. Two inches long, sharp, crisp out to the edges by f 4 and dreamy at F 2.0. Handles like a dream, and I'd get to throw empathetic glances at the out of breath SLR FF toting guy as he rests half way up the hill.

But Olympus is making all those zooms, and putting their best into THEM. I say the glass in ten percent empty, and I'm not happy. Or maybe I just like to disagree. Criticism is important and it's in short supply sometimes.

This is the internet and the eat your cake and still have two slices era you know!

Edited on Sep 18, 2017 at 01:04 AM · View previous versions



Sep 17, 2017 at 04:08 PM
Wilbus
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p.126 #12 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II


Pavel wrote:
Of course neither can I disagree that the idea of balance can mean different things to different people with different needs and standards - sort of like nobody can disagree that all pictures are equally good, since someone will find one far from the average viewpoint superior to the consensus driven "great" photo. I concede the point.

Come to think of it my iPhone is much superior an image maker when considered on a per gram, multiplied by units of convenience. So in that sense Olympus is just one small dot on the continuum, between great image quality versus great convenience.
...Show more

Well written!

Well, that is the thing, isn't it? Everything, every system, every camera, every lens, is a compromise. Zeiss said they would build the best DSLR lenses in the world with the Otus series, no compromises. And they did, part from the fact that size was quite an obvious freaking compromise. All fine and dandy, if you want the ultimate quality, you pay for it in money and size.

The same really goes for other glass but perhaps most notably long glass where it is very obvious you pay for the quality in size, weight and price. I for one don't have the money for a 600mm Nikon or Canon prime, neither would I want to carry it around with me on multi day hikes together with food, tent, sleeping bag, clothes, water etc for 5-7 days. Add to that another few lenses like a super wide angle zoom and a normal zoom and it's just no fun. Not to mention what freaking backpack would I choose? I have trouble enough with that part as it is

There is zero dispute that a Nikon or Canon will do the job "better" in terms of picture quality from the larger sensor, not only in good light but even more so in the lack of light. But it does so at the price of cost, size and weight.

I have never understood why people bash m43 for getting larger and faster glass. In the beginning they were bashing m43 for the lack of fast glass. Now it's the opposite. I think you are helping me understand it a little bit as it does seem you're upset with the fact they are throwing most of what they got in to fast-ish zooms and fast primes with larger size, thus spending less on small primes where you think the system shines.

While, for many, m43 may be a small system and only a small system, I like choice. I know I can go larger, heavier and pricier with great quality in using their PRO series but I also know that I could (thinking about it actually) pick up a PEN-F and a 12,17,25 and 45mm set of primes and put it all in a pocket or two. That's choices for you.

I would be the first to agree that Olympus, or m43 rather, is no less fallible then the pope. On the other hand, as a non believer, or a believer of religion being rather silly, I would also be the first to agree that the pope, and those surrounding him, are all quite fallible

I am even thinking of adding a larger frame system again but Sony doesn't do it for me and I want mirrorless which means I am eagerly awaiting Nikons (hopefully) announcement. I am no fan-boy of no system, they all have their pros and cons and that's the beauty of choice. I have chosen to invest in m43 for whatever reasons. Just like someone chose to invest in Nikon and their large lenses, or smaller lenses.

But yes, m43 is a compromise and a good enough compromise for me and many others. It's possible for me to carry it with me on longer hikes, with a setup of high quality zoom from 12-150mm and a 300mm prime in the future.
Just like I have chosen that to be a good compromise, many others would say it's too heavy and either go with cheaper and much lighter zooms. Others would say, still too heavy, and go with a Nikon 1 system (R.I.P.) while others would say, still to heavy and go with a superzoom like a Panasonic FZ-300.

However, and this is in the defence of those large, heavy dinosaurs we call DSLRs, things have changed a little bit as of lately.

First of all, take the release of the D850, while expensive it offers high speed and a lot of pixels, add that to the best AF and tracking AF in the world it makes for a glorious wild life camera, not only that but it's smaller then a D5 and still does 7fps a second, or as large as one and does 9fps. You can add the little marvellous 300mm F4 PF to that camera and crop heavily and still maintain high quality and a weight that is actually lower then a Olympus E-M1 and 300mm F4. You can't quite crop it the same scale and maintain the same amount of pixels but then again, the pixel quality in it self should be higher. Not to mention better tracking AF and low light performance.

So yes, unless m43 can throw in some new magic in their lenses and challenge the size of new PF-type glass, they may have an even harder time in the future.

The price of course, would still be higher but not enough so that it's not reachable by someone who is already throwing down that amount of dough.



Sep 18, 2017 at 12:24 AM
Wilbus
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p.126 #13 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II


Pavel wrote:
But Olympus is making all those zooms, and putting their best into THEM. I say the glass in ten percent empty, and I'm not happy. Or maybe I just like to disagree. Criticism is important and it's in short supply sometimes.


Ahaaa now I really do see the point of why people are grumpy with m43 and their larger zooms. It really is cause they put their money in to that rather then smaller faster primes.

I can see your point, and I partly agree (Hey, I started a thread about wanting a small, fast-ish super wide angle prime from Olympus).

But like I said in the post above, I also know that I can get my self a Pen-F, or an E-M5.2 and some small fairly fast primes (F1.8-F2) and put it all in a pocket and head out. In fact, I have thought about this quite a bit the last few days, just add the 12, 17 and 25mm primes (instead of my PL 25) and a Pen-F and head out on the streets. Maybe add a small tripod for landscape and long exposure work.

Isn't this a problem that many people face with photo? And maybe other things. One keeps getting more expensive and heavier stuff. Someone starting out with a Nikon D5000 because they find it nimble and good ends up with a D5 and a bunch of 2.8 zooms that never leave the table at home because it's too heavy to bring to the soccer game or out on vacation with the family. Thus they downsize, they change system to a smaller one, then it all start again, in a few years time they have a smaller system but again with large and heavy zooms they can leave at home



Sep 18, 2017 at 12:32 AM
Wilbus
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p.126 #14 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II


bobbytan wrote:
Some good tips on setting up your E-M1.2 for BIF:

http://www.getolympus.com/us/en/autofocus_birdtips?utm_content=read_tips&utm_campaign=em_birdtips_us&utm_source=email_etprm&utm_medium=email&emid

Thanks, Fred Amico, for sharing the link with me!


Have you noticed any difference? Or in other words, how do you think it tracks now?
I am strongly considering a Nikon D500 and 200-500 but I really don't wanna leave m43. Problem is, E-M1.2 and 300mm F4 is $1000 more expensive then a D500 + 200-500



Sep 22, 2017 at 06:30 AM
bobbytan
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p.126 #15 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II


I have not actually fully read his tips on the settings for wildlife/bird photography ... yet. Suffice to say, the E-M1.2 is not there yet in terms of AF ... compared to the DSLR. The D500 is most definitely more superior ... for BIF. So you have to ask yourself if bird photography is your main focus. The last time I checked, brides and grooms, and most animals/wildlife, don't move as fast as birds. So if wedding photography, portraits, street/PJ, macro, landscape, and travel photography are all equally important to you there is nothing that D500 can do that the E-M1.2 cannot do. Other than BIF, focus acquisition and tracking on slower moving targets and perched birds is not a problem for the E-M1.2.

Wilbus wrote:
Have you noticed any difference? Or in other words, how do you think it tracks now?
I am strongly considering a Nikon D500 and 200-500 but I really don't wanna leave m43. Problem is, E-M1.2 and 300mm F4 is $1000 more expensive then a D500 + 200-500




Sep 22, 2017 at 10:16 AM
birdied
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p.126 #16 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II


bobbytan wrote:
I have not actually fully read his tips on the settings for wildlife/bird photography ... yet. Suffice to say, the E-M1.2 is not there yet in terms of AF ... compared to the DSLR. The D500 is most definitely more superior ... for BIF. So you have to ask yourself if bird photography is your main focus. The last time I checked, brides and grooms, and most animals/wildlife, don't move as fast as birds. So if wedding photography, portraits, street/PJ, macro, landscape, and travel photography are all equally important to you there is nothing that D500 can do that
...Show more


My two cents from my limited experience with the Olympus gear.

Having switched from the D500 / 200-500 to the EM1Mk2 and 300f/4, there is no comparison on auto focus for small moving birds . The D500 is going to be much more consistent with acquiring focus.

Anything smaller than a hummer that is moving , the Olympus struggles to acquire focus using the 300mm .

I have tried some of those suggestions in the article, and my experience is not what the author has. However, I am not shooting large birds. Maybe it all works well with large birds in a blue sky, but for smaller birds with foreground and background , I find single point AF-C to be the best option.

I'm not saying you can't get the shots with the Olympus. You can , but you may have to work harder to get those small, quick moving subjects. If you can acquire the focus, and keep up with the subject in the viewfinder, it will track. I find acquiring initial focus is where the Olympus shows its shortcomings.

I switched to Olympus for the size and weight savings -

D500 + 200-500. is a little over 7 #

EM1MK2 + 300mm is a little over 4 #


Birdie















Sep 22, 2017 at 10:59 AM
bobbytan
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p.126 #17 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II


Yup ... with pre-focussing and/or some good technique you should be able to get these types of images:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1508520



Sep 22, 2017 at 11:26 AM
bobbytan
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p.126 #18 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II


I should add that if you get the E-M1.2 + PL 100-400 instead of the 300/4 PRO the price and weight savings is even more significant.

bobbytan wrote:
I have not actually fully read his tips on the settings for wildlife/bird photography ... yet. Suffice to say, the E-M1.2 is not there yet in terms of AF ... compared to the DSLR. The D500 is most definitely more superior ... for BIF. So you have to ask yourself if bird photography is your main focus. The last time I checked, brides and grooms, and most animals/wildlife, don't move as fast as birds. So if wedding photography, portraits, street/PJ, macro, landscape, and travel photography are all equally important to you there is nothing that D500 can do that
...Show more




Sep 22, 2017 at 11:49 AM
mitesh
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p.126 #19 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II


I am in agreement with Birdie, and my experiences mirror hers when it comes to C-AF on the E-M1.2. I have tossed hundreds of shots of BIF that are inexplicably out of focus or soft. I've tried default settings, and have tried to adjust settings like the article suggests, all with no noticeable improvement in results. I really hope that a firmware update for the E-M1.2 can make it better, or worst case, that the E-M1.3 significantly improves the C-AF and tracking abilities.


Sep 22, 2017 at 12:51 PM
k-h.a.w
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p.126 #20 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II


Birdie, mitesh, long ago I have given up on tracking with the E-M1 II. It's useless.

Also when shooting hummingbirds in flight with the silent shutter a too large a fraction of the total number of shots exhibits rolling shutter artifacts. So I am forced to use the mechanical shutter for those HIF images.

The Sony A9 has a much faster shutter readout speed so rolling shutter artifacts are barely noticeable and I use its electronic shutter for HIF shots.

K-H.



Sep 22, 2017 at 01:25 PM
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