itai195 wrote:
I agree that Sony is likely to stay ahead in terms of sheer performance, as they iterate cameras faster than anyone else. On the other hand, the A6500 has a poor lens selection and much worse usability.
well, when Sony replicates the Oly PRO line, especially the 300PRO, I'll take a look at it.. I don't spend much time on DPR, but they did not have a stellar review of the 6500... but hey, what do I know, not much
I understand the A6500 has the same AF system as the A6300 with 425 on-sensor PDAF ... but I don't think all 425 AF points are of the cross-type. And 4MP of extra resolution is not a huge difference. The E-M1 II's silent-mode sequential shooting frame rate is 60 fps RAW (focus locked on the 1st frame) which is an insane speed. Frame rates for C-AF is 18 fps in the silent shutter mode and 15 fps in the mechanical shutter mode. If I am not mistaken, this makes the E-M1 II the fastest mirrorless camera on the market. And there is virtually no VF blackout in sequential shooting mode. Sync IS will give you up to 6.5 stops, so there is less of a need to crank up your ISO.
And as others have pointed out, the range of excellent native m43 lenses is quite incredible.
taran wrote:
Sony doesn't play games, the A6300 is old news. A6500 was introduced in order to supplant any possibility of EM1II buyers thinking they are getting state of the art. More than 3X as many cross focus points, more resolution, much smaller body, better video, etc etc.
Not like the EM1II is bad, but imho it is not allowed to compete with APS-c top of the line, as Sony will introduce artificial barriers to keep Oly 2-3 years behind.
taran wrote:
Sony doesn't play games, the A6300 is old news. A6500 was introduced in order to supplant any possibility of EM1II buyers thinking they are getting state of the art. More than 3X as many cross focus points, more resolution, much smaller body, better video, etc etc.
Not like the EM1II is bad, but imho it is not allowed to compete with APS-c top of the line, as Sony will introduce artificial barriers to keep Oly 2-3 years behind.
Just my 2ç.
Oh, come on! I'm sure the A6500 is a nice camera but no weather sealing, only one card slot, no vertical grip, smaller battery, max shutter speed 1/4000s, no USB 3, not fully articulated LCD, no headphone output, much smaller range of professional grade lenses, particularly those designed for the camera format (APS-C in Sony's case)... the list goes on. How about high-res mode? Auto stacking? Auto focus bracketing? Cinema 4K? Hybrid IS?
The Sony is a nice amateur camera. The Olympus is a nice pro camera.
anthonysemone wrote:
well, when Sony replicates the Oly PRO line, especially the 300PRO, I'll take a look at it.. I don't spend much time on DPR, but they did not have a stellar review of the 6500... but hey, what do I know, not much
Well, I own the entire Oly PRO line, including the 300/4 PRO. Those are superb lenses. The 300/4 PRO is stellar. Its optical performance on par with my copy of the Leica APO-Telyt-R 280/4.
I also own the Sony A7r, A7r2, a6300 and a number of outstanding E and FE lenses from 10 to 90mm. Furthermore the TechArt Pro (TAP) adapter lets me use many non-native lenses up to 560mm with autofocus on the A7r2 and a6300. The A7r2 has IBIS and the a6500 will have that feature as well.
Both the Olympus and Sony systems are highly useable in my hands. For long tele work I prefer the MFT system. For UWA to short tele, in particular available light photography, I prefer the Sony cameras. The a6300, and possibly in the future the a6500, give extra reach for my excellent FE lenses, like the FE 90/2.8 MACRO OSS G lens.
To each his own. I don't think Olympus is the poster child for usability, not even close. But I have used a bunch of Sony cameras and own an A7R2 currently. I love the results, but I don't enjoy using the camera. The buttons and dials feel cheap. The camera feels slow to operate. The EVF / LCD switch is laggy and frustrating. Changing focus points requires extra button presses that my other cameras don't require. I used an A6000 quite a bit too, and I just don't see how a camera with no front dial can be considered a professional camera. It's capable of great results, but I find its usability limited.
I will say that Sony certainly does have some nice usability edges over other brands: they have a great auto ISO implementation, the grips on their cameras feel great, the shutter buttons feel great, the EVFs are generally excellent. But there are a lot of rough edges that detract from the overall experience.
All that is to say that while the A6500 will outclass the E-M1mk2 in some areas, I think the E-M1 will offer a much more refined and complete experience. Not perfect by any means, just take a look at Oly's menu system, or the terrible on/off switch placement.
Jorgen Udvang wrote:
Oh, come on! I'm sure the A6500 is a nice camera but no weather sealing, only one card slot, no vertical grip, smaller battery, max shutter speed 1/4000s, no USB 3, not fully articulated LCD, no headphone output, much smaller range of professional grade lenses, particularly those designed for the camera format (APS-C in Sony's case)... the list goes on. How about high-res mode? Auto stacking? Auto focus bracketing? Cinema 4K? Hybrid IS?
The Sony is a nice amateur camera. The Olympus is a nice pro camera.
Of course you are right, not everyone needs a headphone output, and some people like a built in flash. USB3 is nice, NFC is just as nice, etc etc. 12 bit vs 14 bit RAW on the A6500 (huge to some people). Hybrid IS, yes, actually, it does. The A6500 also appears to be weather sealed.
What's important to you is not so important to me and both obviously can do a fine job. Olympus has a winner on its hands, and, by all accounts so far, so does Sony. I hope they both live up to the hype.
itai195 wrote:
... just take a look at Oly's menu system, or the terrible on/off switch placement.
Very terrible indeed. The E-M1 is the only digital camera I've owned where I need both hands to switch it on. The OM-1 had the same of course, but with a battery that lasted for years rather than hours, there wasn't really any need to switch the camera off
taran wrote:
Of course you are right, not everyone needs a headphone output, and some people like a built in flash. USB3 is nice, NFC is just as nice, etc etc. 12 bit vs 14 bit RAW on the A6500 (huge to some people). Hybrid IS, yes, actually, it does. The A6500 also appears to be weather sealed.
What's important to you is not so important to me and both obviously can do a fine job. Olympus has a winner on its hands, and, by all accounts so far, so does Sony. I hope they both live up to the hype.
They will both be bestsellers, and together with the X-T2, they will lead the mirrorless market for the next few... weeks?
I would pick the X-T2 over the A6500 any day. The X-T2 and E-M1 II are both very DSLR-like - a form factor that suits me much more than a rangefinder-style camera.
taran wrote:
Of course you are right, not everyone needs a headphone output, and some people like a built in flash. USB3 is nice, NFC is just as nice, etc etc. 12 bit vs 14 bit RAW on the A6500 (huge to some people). Hybrid IS, yes, actually, it does. The A6500 also appears to be weather sealed.
What's important to you is not so important to me and both obviously can do a fine job. Olympus has a winner on its hands, and, by all accounts so far, so does Sony. I hope they both live up to the hype.
The a6500 and Sony bodies in general have dust and moisture resistance but aren't weather sealed, definitely not to the point of Olympus.
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Jorgen Udvang wrote:
Very terrible indeed. The E-M1 is the only digital camera I've owned where I need both hands to switch it on. The OM-1 had the same of course, but with a battery that lasted for years rather than hours, there wasn't really any need to switch the camera off
The menu system is bad too, but so is Sony's.
Canon usually has their on/off switch on the left hand side. I like a shutter button on/off that Sony/Fuji/Nikon use, and the on/off is one of the few things I dislike about the E-M1. But having C1/2/3, a 1/2 lever, dual card slots, AF trackpad, useable drive mode, etc make up for it.
taran wrote:
Sony doesn't play games, the A6300 is old news. A6500 was introduced in order to supplant any possibility of EM1II buyers thinking they are getting state of the art. More than 3X as many cross focus points, more resolution, much smaller body, better video, etc etc.
Not like the EM1II is bad, but imho it is not allowed to compete with APS-c top of the line, as Sony will introduce artificial barriers to keep Oly 2-3 years behind.
Just my 2ç.
Having a smaller body is a blessing and a curse at the same time. Too small and you start to cram buttons together or omit key ones such as a front dial. Also makes using longer lenses more uncomfortable. I personally like a deep grip but most importantly height so as much of my hand can wrap around the grip instead of having my pinky or ring finger hanging off the edge.
TMaG82 wrote:
The a6500 and Sony bodies in general have dust and moisture resistance but aren't weather sealed, definitely not to the point of Olympus.
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Canon usually has their on/off switch on the left hand side. I like a shutter button on/off that Sony/Fuji/Nikon use, and the on/off is one of the few things I dislike about the E-M1. But having C1/2/3, a 1/2 lever, dual card slots, AF trackpad, useable drive mode, etc make up for it.
yes the on/off switch that I must use another hand to use is kind of dumb whereas most other manufacturers have it so you can hold the camera in one hand and turn the camera on/off with your thumb or index finger. I suspect manufacturers do this to either just plain be different even if it's a worse design, or get out of having to pay some royalties because of a previous patent.
Absolutely right. I love the size of the first E-M5 but hated the tiny buttons and dials. The E-M1 and E-M1 II are just right in terms of size IMO, especially when you use a "big" lens like the 40-150 PRO and 300 PRO. I do not like the swivel screen but it's not a deal breaker for me. And I have no problem with the placement of the on/off switch.
TMaG82 wrote:
Having a smaller body is a blessing and a curse at the same time. Too small and you start to cram buttons together or omit key ones such as a front dial. Also makes using longer lenses more uncomfortable. I personally like a deep grip but most importantly height so as much of my hand can wrap around the grip instead of having my pinky or ring finger hanging off the edge.
That "new" feature on the G85 where you can configure it to only use the EVF when up to your eye, and to otherwise shut off the LCD and EVF, is something every mirrorless camera should have. That probably would mitigate my hatred of Oly's on/off switch placement, because I wouldn't have to use the switch as much.
itai195 wrote:
That "new" feature on the G85 where you can configure it to only use the EVF when up to your eye, and to otherwise shut off the LCD and EVF, is something every mirrorless camera should have. That probably would mitigate my hatred of Oly's on/off switch placement, because I wouldn't have to use the switch as much.
Yes, they should all have that mode. But at the moment every camera with a fully articulated display already does. And since the E-M1II has a fully articulated screen it will have exactly this mode as well.
I read this thread because I'm very interested in the new em1. But honestly, all the whining is getting old. I do t know most of you, so I'm going to assume that you guys are master photographers and having the on/off switch in the wrong place is interfering with your art. So may I sugg at that you design the "right" camera and sell it to any of the camera companies?
kwalsh wrote:
Yes, they should all have that mode. But at the moment every camera with a fully articulated display already does. And since the E-M1II has a fully articulated screen it will have exactly this mode as well.
Heh, fair enough. I do use this from time to time on my E-M5mk2.
savingspaces wrote:
I read this thread because I'm very interested in the new em1. But honestly, all the whining is getting old. I do t know most of you, so I'm going to assume that you guys are master photographers and having the on/off switch in the wrong place is interfering with your art. So may I sugg at that you design the "right" camera and sell it to any of the camera companies?
No, there are two problems with this, both of practical nature:
- I can't switch on the camera if my left hand is busy with something else, for instance gripping a tree or other solid object so that I can lean out over whatever when taking a photo. You'd be surprised how often that kind of thing happens at sports events, particularly car races.
- I forget to switch off the camera when I'm done (since all my other cameras have this function available for my right index finger), and with bad luck some button (video springs to my mind) is activated in the bag or when crashing into other photographers at events, leaving me with 30 minutes of useless footage or a drained or nearly drained battery.
I may be a klutz, but both of the above have happened to me more than once.
