The one thing we need to keep in mind is first the 42mpx has a long tonal range mixed with a lot of DR. What that does right out of the gate is make your images more flat looking. Now don't view it as a bad thing it's actually what you want is a really nice flat tonal range. From here with a lens like this that renders very subtle tonal range you get even more a nice person look to the files. Awesome for portrait type work and really what this lens is designed for. But now if you want more zippy do da like more a traditional Zeiss lens than you just add the pop. Just putting a couple points of black alone will do that but adding maybe 10 points of clarity along with it your back into that landscape look. You could even add about 3 or 4 points of saturation as well for even more punch. The reality is this, you want your files to come in with this long tonal range and lots of DR as it picks up detail better as well than you can go from here. This is like a two-faced type of lens on one hand it is very subtle for people but you in post can do just about anything to it as it will handle a lot of post work. As you start playing around with it in post you will see the different character from it. Back in the day when sensors where not as advanced and little DR you got punch because the sensors tonal range was much shorter. Than you had to fight the shadows to draw anything from it. Today totally different as you start flat with a long tonal range than tweak to taste. I shot digital back in the very early 90s and I would have killed for a sensor like this and lenses that draw like this at the time. Now we have it, we really are at a very good point in digital photography.
The one big reason I'm so high praise on this lens is the rendering but that has a lot to do with the sensors it's paired with. Someone was pretty darn smart at the Sony lens design they actually paired the rendering abilities of this lens with there sensor. We get tremendous beautiful falloff , rounder bokeh balls , great tonal range across the image, less onion ring effect and a nice subtle people look along with high DR sensor and long tonal range it's like a perfect combo. I give them a lot of credit for producing a lens like this and what lenses did not have in the past was sharp well corrected 1.4 aperture. Than it turns into a laser at F2.
Thanks I wish someone would pay me. Not the case though . I'll take free Pro service though. Lol
Seriously what I would like as I had with Phase and Leica was some advanced product to shoot before public release. But I don't want to be obligated to anyone either. So that won't happen because I'm pretty damn blunt about problems.
GMPhotography wrote:
The one thing we need to keep in mind is first the 42mpx has a long tonal range mixed with a lot of DR. What that does right out of the gate is make your images more flat looking. Now don't view it as a bad thing it's actually what you want is a really nice flat tonal range. From here with a lens like this that renders very subtle tonal range you get even more a nice person look to the files. Awesome for portrait type work and really what this lens is designed for. But now if you want more zippy do da like more a traditional Zeiss lens than you just add the pop. Just putting a couple points of black alone will do that but adding maybe 10 points of clarity along with it your back into that landscape look. You could even add about 3 or 4 points of saturation as well for even more punch. The reality is this, you want your files to come in with this long tonal range and lots of DR as it picks up detail better as well than you can go from here. This is like a two-faced type of lens on one hand it is very subtle for people but you in post can do just about anything to it as it will handle a lot of post work. As you start playing around with it in post you will see the different character from it. Back in the day when sensors where not as advanced and little DR you got punch because the sensors tonal range was much shorter. Than you had to fight the shadows to draw anything from it. Today totally different as you start flat with a long tonal range than tweak to taste. I shot digital back in the very early 90s and I would have killed for a sensor like this and lenses that draw like this at the time. Now we have it, we really are at a very good point in digital photography.
The one big reason I'm so high praise on this lens is the rendering but that has a lot to do with the sensors it's paired with. Someone was pretty darn smart at the Sony lens design they actually paired the rendering abilities of this lens with there sensor. We get tremendous beautiful falloff , rounder bokeh balls , great tonal range across the image, less onion ring effect and a nice subtle people look along with high DR sensor and long tonal range it's like a perfect combo. I give them a lot of credit for producing a lens like this and what lenses did not have in the past was sharp well corrected 1.4 aperture. Than it turns into a laser at F2. ...Show more →
Perfect analysis!
We used to see these differences in the 1980's when shooting (4x5") transparency and negative film in a commercial studio. Transparency always looked great shot and lit for pre-press but our hand printers always wanted negatives for "greater flexibility" in the chemical darkroom process.
I think there's a lot of confusion over a lens and "its look" in a digital world. Back in the "analogue" world you wanted a contrasty lens with that three dimensional rendering when shooting say the old Kodachrome as it was the final "baked-in" look. Today we actually need these "flexible" lenses with their more adaptable "negative-like" rendering.
Well said Chris this is more a negative than previous sensors that where more transparency like. For a raw shooter this is heaven but there is a caveat here and I read it several times as a lot of folks don't really like doing post work and I do understand that but it's part of the final image and I would like to drive this part home. I have seen this on many workshops where people fail is in post because it's maybe not fun , it's work and so on. A lot of magic happens here and far to often we want to see what comes out of the can and not have to do the leg work. Not sure anyone pays attention to what I say often become a expert in post . Pick LR or C1 and learn it very well. Honestly many and if not all my images in post make a big difference from what's coming out of the can. As a Pro you want that edge for more work, as a hobbyist you want to get every bloody nickel out of this expensive gear, it's why you bought into this system than using a iPhone. Take advantage of it. We have the tools and this is where your images will jump off the screen.
Too true. I feel for people who don't enjoy the magic that happens when you get just what you want, and the Sony sensors make it easier. Maybe people who need to kick themselves in the @ss to work on images might try a project, like work up their favorite 100 images from each year.
Having said all that, it's also a reason to use lenses that produce images you actually really like, off the card. You get several things here: the lens has done some more of the work for you already, and also you can see more capabilities for the final image - because the lens shows you more of what it can do, and you learn to make less dramatic changes. That is one of the skills, knowing when to stop!
You do get better with time, and you develop better vision skills for when you are in the field. The more you know about handling the RAWs, the better you can prepare for PP in the field, make better choices knowing what you will do later in post - like what ISO level is the limit or shooting high or low, so that is a feedback loop you want. JPGs OOC are very like film prints, you don't know what happened or how to improve on it.
And yes, they can all make fine output (LR, C1 etc), pick one and stick at it for a while. Experiment and learn, don't regard it as a waste of time, it's the finishing that counts in any activity. And satisfaction is yours, you did it yourself!
Also, look at a lot of images in the great image threads here, many people are at the top of their game. Decide what photos you like, and try to get that look in your own work. Experiment. Everybody goes through it.
Well, I just couldn't resist the urge anymore, money be damned, and boy oh boy is this a fantastic lens!
First impression is that is actually plenty sharp for me wide open at f/1.4. The detail is there and with some clever sharpening things get even better. Awesome sharpness from f/1.6 were bokeh is still just flat out fabulous.
As other was said, the smoothness of the files in combination with the A7r2 is wonderful. The contrast is lower that with my FE 35 f/1.4 and I also think that the colors are a touch more subdued. Especially the yellows, I think.
So I can see why some would call the unprocessed raw files a bit flat if you are used to the Sony Zeiss look. But these files from the 85 GM + A7r2 combo can take some massive post-processing and they will still laugh at you and say "Is that all you can do!"
A quick snapshot to test sharpness, bokeh, rendering and post-processing ability. I was trying to see whether you can get a bit of Zeiss pop together with some smooth rendering from the 85 GM.
GMPhotography wrote:
The one thing we need to keep in mind is first the 42mpx has a long tonal range mixed with a lot of DR. What that does right out of the gate is make your images more flat looking.
But now if you want more zippy do da like more a traditional Zeiss lens than you just add the pop. Just putting a couple points of black alone will do that but adding maybe 10 points of clarity along with it your back into that landscape look. You could even add about 3 or 4 points of saturation as well for even more punch. ...Show more →
You're spot on Guy - i wasn't going to post this image b/c the subject is not interesting to anyone outside of my family - but Wednesday was my son's last day of 2nd grade and I was taking pics of him and his classmates (here's one with the girl he thinks he's going to marry - oh, to be 7 again!)
This was an example of what CharlesK was pointing out as his interest in the 85GM for the harsh Australian sun he has to deal with frequently. I think the Batis85 that I sold would have been a bear to work with in post on this image given all of the hot spots and high contrast - but the 85GM came into Capture1 and it took just some minor adjustments (as you point out above Guy) and i added vignetting to make the image look nice enough to share with my family.
I think it's super easy to take an 85GM image and add pop.
I don't think it's as easy to take a Batis85 image and dial it down.
btw - i think the focus was off a bit on this one - they were all moving around and i didn't hit 'eye focus' on this one but it's a keeper for me b/c it could be my future daughter-in-law :-) http://www.ecarlino.net/TJC_LastDay_2ndGrade/_DSC5740.jpg
Honestly all the talk about it's not this or that but until you get the bloody thing in your hands and work them in post it's just all talk. Us owners have a huge smile across our face
GMPhotography wrote:
Honestly all the talk about it's not this or that but until you get the bloody thing in your hands and work them in post it's just all talk. Us owners have a huge smile across our face
100% right - the files in post from the 85GM put a huge smile on my face - and Guy, i don't want to get you all distracted b/c i know there are a lot of lenses out there to try - but i just got a 32" 4k monitor (Asus PA329Q) - the a7r2+85GM on that will leave you with more than a smile!
ecarlino wrote:
You're spot on Guy - i wasn't going to post this image b/c the subject is not interesting to anyone outside of my family - but Wednesday was my son's last day of 2nd grade and I was taking pics of him and his classmates (here's one with the girl he thinks he's going to marry - oh, to be 7 again!)
This was an example of what CharlesK was pointing out as his interest in the 85GM for the harsh Australian sun he has to deal with frequently. I think the Batis85 that I sold would have been a bear to work with in post on this image given all of the hot spots and high contrast - but the 85GM came into Capture1 and it took just some minor adjustments (as you point out above Guy) and i added vignetting to make the image look nice enough to share with my family.
I think it's super easy to take an 85GM image and add pop.
I don't think it's as easy to take a Batis85 image and dial it down.
GMPhotography wrote:
ROTFLMAO. Comes with a blue pill too. I'm buying. LoL
funny you should say that b/c there's some setting i haven't been able to figure out that 'adjusts the blue light' something to make it easier for long sessions of data processing or something.....
GMPhotography wrote:
Honestly all the talk about it's not this or that but until you get the bloody thing in your hands and work them in post it's just all talk. Us owners have a huge smile across our face
You're right about the 85 GM files putting a smile on my face, that is for sure. Gonna add that I feel the same way about the FE 35 f/1.4. Sony is really onto something here!
Please could you take a look at your blades, while the camera is off, and tell me if they form a fairly nice circle. I don't remember seeing this in my previous copy.
SPDTDL wrote:
Old thread, but seemed the most relevant.
Please could you take a look at your blades, while the camera is off, and tell me if they form a fairly nice circle. I don't remember seeing this in my previous copy:
I didn't pay much, if any, attention to mine until your post and it made me curious. I just checked mine and it forms a pretty nice and uniformly "round" circle, I would say. For sure, it is rounder than what is displayed on the picture. If it is still under warranty, I would send that lens in for service.
I notice a lot of pronounced green fringing in the highlights with this lens in most peoples images. I know is the norm for most wide aperture primes but for this price I'd expect a bit better performance here.
Anyones opinion on how this particular flaw compares with the batis?
My 135 f2 apo obviosly performs near perfect here. My 100mm makro planar much worse pending scenario.
Congrats and enjoy the lens, Nils!
